New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Pro Bono - Page 2

post #31 of 57
If you love something/someone, you tell others about it.

Good ski instructors love skiing.

It's just spreading the love and enthusiasm. (with apologies to Paula's )

And for that, I AM GRATEFUL.
post #32 of 57
Thread Starter 
This altruistic Boy Scouts (no offense to BSA fans) image that ski instructors cherish -- the passion for the mountain experience that enables them to be paid about the same as the burger-flipper at McDonalds -- is not the only dimension to the ski instructor's willingness to give freely to complete strangers the coin of his realm. Their payback is better than money.

I'm a bit concerned at the onesidedness of your memoir, Steve, it's all about them receiving. Didn't you receive something equally tangible?
post #33 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by nolo
Why do the pros on this site volunteer their wisdom to the members of EpicSki for free? What's in it for them?

Doesn't sharing their secrets on a website increase the likelihood that others will steal their stuff, not give them proper recognition (see "Ski the Slow Line Fast" threads for substantiation of this claim), and perhaps even spin it beyond recognition? Won't it hurt their business if what they offer isn't in some way unique and only available from them?

Why are you pros so generous with your advice to people who will probably never buy a lesson from you? What's the incentive?

It’s habit more than anything. When someone comes for coaching in class its pretty clear that they are there for a lesson and you will be paid for your time. But when I see someone that is really struggling on the hill, I most always will approach them and ask if they need help. They say most of the time that they may be a little over their head on this one. I then, and I believe this is important, ask them if I may offer some coaching. I believe that it is important to ask first because there are some that do not think they need help and become offended if you start telling them what they need to do. After all, they didn’t ask for you to come over in the first place. But in most cases, they are more than willing to hear what advice you are willing to give, and for free at that.

It’s just in my blood I guess, and it has been for many years now. The same goes for these forums. I enjoy reading the post and offering my two cents worth when I feel that I have something to contribute. Of course not all of us see eye to eye on any given subject, but I feel pretty confident that what I offer to this forum is accurate, up to date, and what we are trying to do with ski coaching here in Aspen. I have 30 years of coaching skiing under my belt this season, 27 here at Snowmass and my passion for the sport and coach others to be the best they can be has never failed me. I am a professional and will do this until I can’t, and as long as someone wants to know and will give me permission to offer help, I will and for free if need be.---------Wigs
post #34 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by nolo
I'm a bit concerned at the onesidedness of your memoir, Steve, it's all about them receiving. Didn't you receive something equally tangible?
Depends on which definition of "tangible" you mean:

1.
    • Discernible by the touch; palpable: a tangible roughness of the skin.
    • Possible to touch.
    • Possible to be treated as fact; real or concrete: tangible evidence.
2. Possible to understand or realize: the tangible benefits of the plan.
3. Law. That can be valued monetarily: tangible property.

If you mean 3, then no, there is nothing monetarily that I get in return. I do receive some things in return, though. Some of them are possible to understand or realize. I receive the joy of giving, which is a blessing in and of itself. I also get to be out in the alpine world, which gives to me and grants me health and wholeness (I say as I sit here in my basement office typing away!). I don't know, Nolo, but there is something about being able to share with others something that generates joy, excitement, happiness, and/or other positive responses that is payment in and of itself. For this year, it's the only payment I'm receiving, and it's enough.
post #35 of 57
By the way, also perhaps pertinent: I have been "teaching" skiing for years informally. My wife, my friends, others I see struggling on the mountain (as Wigs mentioned above). I don't have the formal training or organizational experience that many of you have, but I have been a student of skiing since my earliest days, and I have exercised my ability to teach (which I do in many topics) on the mountain for literally decades. Until last year, when it was suggested to me by Rusty, I had not considered doing it for money since leaving college.
post #36 of 57
Thread Starter 
Steve, Every time I offer my help, I get to learn something in return. That is the reinforcement that keeps me coming back to the ski school year after year (though I am considering taking a sabattical). Those who learn nothing from the act of teaching seldom progress as teachers.
post #37 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by nolo
That is the reinforcement that keeps me coming back to the ski school year after year (though I am considering taking a sabattical).
You'll still be here though..........right?
post #38 of 57
Thread Starter 
Of course. I'm just considering it.
post #39 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by nolo
Steve, Every time I offer my help, I get to learn something in return. That is the reinforcement that keeps me coming back to the ski school year after year (though I am considering taking a sabattical). Those who learn nothing from the act of teaching seldom progress as teachers.
I'm glad someone thought to include this. It's been my observation that the best teachers are people who are continually involved in learning themselves. I recall riding up the lift last Spring w/ a mentor and another instructor. The two of us were hotly debating the mechanics of some aspect of skiing when the third instructor interjected that this is what he hated about PSIA, these kinds of discussions. He associated us w/ the organization I guess because we were both wearing our gold pins. I remember a moment of shock and bewilderment as I searched for a comeback. I could certainly understand that such discussions become tiresome but his reaction seemed to be a reaction against the whole concept of curiousity and and fascination with skiing and teaching and I remember immediately wondering what kind of ski teacher would not want to learn more? My guess was that he is one of those who have learned a set of progressions and drills that he applies repetively without much insight or modification. Perhaps that was unfair of me but it sure seemed to contradict everything I've come to regard in good ski teachers. Surely one of the lures of teaching for many is the continuous flow of insight and discovery on a wide spectrum of topics and not the least being that of self-knowledge.
post #40 of 57
My first cynical answer was going to be; "You're right, why should I give it away? As a matter fact, I'm going to call the Red Cross and ask for that money back that I gave to the tsunami relief fund!"

My second (only semi)cynical answer was going to be; "I'm stacking up my 'good karma' chips for when I need to cash them in" (might be soon!!)

But in reality, it's for the same reason I teach at all. Come on, we've already beat the dead horse about pay issues, so everyone knows we teach for the love of it, not the money. So there's no difference coming here and doing this. Plus, just the chance to talk skiing with a crowd like this as much as possible floats my boat.
post #41 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by nolo
Steve, Every time I offer my help, I get to learn something in return. That is the reinforcement that keeps me coming back to the ski school year after year (though I am considering taking a sabattical). Those who learn nothing from the act of teaching seldom progress as teachers.
Succinct. Works for me. Applies to the vast majority of ski instructors I've known.
post #42 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by nolo
Of course. I'm just considering it.
So, will you be attending the local Teachaholics-Anonymous meetings, or fall off the wagon and give unsolisited tips to unsuspecting skiers to "get your fix"? :
post #43 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnH
Come on, we've already beat the dead horse about pay issues, so everyone knows we teach for the love of it, not the money.
I always find this kind of statement interesting. I for one do it for the money. Don't get me wrong. I love to see someone’s face light up with the joy of getting something for the first time. But I wouldn’t teach full time if I couldn’t pay my bills and travel in the off seasons.

I know many people talk about how little they make, that isn't so true here in Colorado for the full time pro with experience. Maybe I shouldn't talk for the whole state, but I think most of the bigger resorts pay somewhat similar.

The only income I have for 5 to 6 months a year comes from teaching skiing and snowboarding. Some people may love to teach skiing enough that they are willing to put up with all the crap to get there kid a free ticket. I don’t know what I would do if I ever moved back East.

As to Nolo’s question, I think people who really like skiing and teaching skiing like to talk about skiing. It keeps the brain fresh. As far as giving it away, I think it’s a give and take relationship.
post #44 of 57
Thread Starter 
I think it would be good to get in touch with my recreational roots, take some road trips (interior B.C. has been calling me), and experience the joy of skiing as it was meant to be enjoyed, completely selfishly. I'll be available to take a few runs with my friends who want a quick fix, but the obligation will be removed. I don't care about the money--it's too little to warrant concern, and besides, no one can buy a turn--I can't wave my magic wand and make someone a better skier, he or she has to practice to become a better skier, and I would really prefer to work with people who have that kind of dedication pro bono than with people who will never love skiing as it deserves.
post #45 of 57
From the book "Illusions, The Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah" by Richard Bach (previously wrote "Jonathan Livingston Seagull")

"You teach best, that which you most need to learn."
post #46 of 57
play more basketball with your kiddo while she's still around home to play with.
post #47 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve crumbaugh
play more basketball with your kiddo while she's still around home to play with.
...she might even let you stand on a ladder...
post #48 of 57
Well I for one have identified a few people I would love to meet up with for a beer and a long talk - I could learn while they drink But seriously If I heard that some of these pros where at a ski area near me I'd be signing up for privates - I'm sure this isn't their motive -but it can't hurt

Fairly

PS Anyone likely to be In Matrei-in-Osttirol Austria in two weeks time )))))))))))
post #49 of 57
Well now, let's see height difference problem with basketball? How about a bucket truck? shuffleboard? Aw heck just take your kids skiing and don't worry 'bout altitude.
post #50 of 57
Thread Starter 
Actually, my tall friends, I will be playing against my All-State daughter in the parent-daughter game in April. Last year we geezers almost beat the brats and I dished in 2 points for the Grand Old Team on a steal (since no one would pass me the ball, as they apparently harbored the same biases as my virtual friends against the vertically challenged).

I'm not thinking of quitting teaching altogether, just quitting the job.
post #51 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by nolo
Actually, my tall friends, I will be playing against my All-State daughter in the parent-daughter game in April. Last year we geezers almost beat the brats and I dished in 2 points for the Grand Old Team on a steal (since no one would pass me the ball, as they apparently harbored the same biases as my virtual friends against the vertically challenged).

I'm not thinking of quitting teaching altogether, just quitting the job.
I wouldn't bet against you.

As far as teaching goes, maybe you need new students, and your students need a new teacher. Come join my msu class for our last day hike up the fingers. It is either this tuesday or tuesday after spring break, I can't remember. I'll reserve the gear for you. Share in their joy of skiing. Later, RicB.
post #52 of 57
It's thanks:

I have gained from the free ideas of others posted here. Hopefully, others can gain from mine....

Posting also helps organize my thoughts. I don't know where this quote came from, but it sums that aspect up for me: "An idea is just a notion until it is written down."
post #53 of 57
Thread Starter 
Ric, thanks for the invitation. This coming Tuesday I am booked all day. The next Tuesday I will be lying on a beach in Mexico. Did I mention I've been working for ski schools for the past 25 years? The cure is not more of the SAME. The cure is CHANGE.

I love my students. I told one that I was thinking of taking next year off. She said, "Uh-oh, you're going to have a mutiny on your hands." We'll see.

BTW, I heard that Horst Abraham recently moved from Vail to a marina in Florida...
post #54 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by nolo
Ric, thanks for the invitation. This coming Tuesday I am booked all day. The next Tuesday I will be lying on a beach in Mexico. Did I mention I've been working for ski schools for the past 25 years? The cure is not more of the SAME. The cure is CHANGE.

I love my students. I told one that I was thinking of taking next year off. She said, "Uh-oh, you're going to have a mutiny on your hands." We'll see.

BTW, I heard that Horst Abraham recently moved from Vail to a marina in Florida...
Skiing the fingers would be for the fun of it. I'd be the only one working. Hike the 400' of vert, park your butt in the snow, take a big drink of water, and then smell the air, enjoy the view and ski some of the best snow on the mountain on a 40 degree slope. Well if you get off early tuesday like around 2:00, let's go up.

Mutiny Eh! Can we say co-dependancy?

By the way, 10"s yesterday with more on the way. Don't forget to take time for yourself. Later, RicB.
post #55 of 57
Thread Starter 
Maybe my student and I will join you. I'll mention it to her.
post #56 of 57
Though I don't make many posts in the instruction forum, when I do it is becauseI want the ski industry to grow. If someone gets better, they require better equipment. If I can be the guy who helped them, or pointed them right, they might remember something Beta related and when they go to the ski shop, Beta might spring into their mind and hopefully buy the skis I represent.
post #57 of 57
I haven't "officially" been part of the epic community for very long (at all), but I've been lurking around here for quite some time. (No need for a registration if I don't have much to say...)

I'll use this opportunity to give a HUGE thanks to everyone on these boards who's ever chimed in a good word of advice or reason. I'm sure you know who you are.

Thank You
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Ski Instruction & Coaching