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Some questions for Volkl experts ....

post #1 of 27
Thread Starter 
I'm beginning to look for some new skis. I'm currently on circa 00/01 Volkl Vertigo 20/20 178s. I have loved them, although I know they are too long for most of what I ski (I'm 130 lb). But it's fun to make big fast turns with them.

I ski in Colorado pretty exclusively. I love the whole mountain: bumps, trees, groomed, steeps, bowls, whatever. I don't do a lot of off-piste, and if I need big skis, I have them already.

I demoed the AX3 gammas in a 163, and I liked them very much. But I'd also like to try some of the Supersports, since it's a little different ski than what I have. It seems pretty impossible to find a 5 star to demo. I was also wondering about a 4 star -- would that be more appropriate for me? And then there's the question of a possible future Supersport gamma -- is that really happening, and if so, does anyone know anything about it?

(And I do want to stick with Volkl. I've always been very happy with them, and it's too confusing to add more brands to the decision process.)
post #2 of 27
All I know about the Supersport Gamma is that it does exist - and it's pink.
post #3 of 27
IMO the AX3 is a more appropriate ski for you as it is a true all mountain ski. The Supersports are more of a carving ski. Sure it can be skied everywhere as any ski can. But the AX3 has a softer flex and is a better bump ski. I enjoy my AX3's. I would recommend you get it flat with the piston bunding.
post #4 of 27
If you are looking at the AX3 why not look at the 7 24 pro. I really like that ski and it is not too stiff. You can ski it short. Great in the woods and powder - crud too.

The ski has high level performance, yet it's forgiving too. Can't hurt to try.
post #5 of 27
There is a reason the AX3 is gone next year. It isn't really any better off-piste than the Supersport line, and noticeably worse on hardpack. The Supersport 6* and Superspeed now fill the niche that the old G31 used to hold.

Look at the dimensions between the AX3 and the Supersports, its 2 mm wider in the waist with much narrower shovels. Considering that most people ski the G3/AX3 short, it actually has LESS surface area than the Supersports given similar length. If you want a noticeably better off piste ski than the Supersports, try the 724 EXP (74mm) or the Pro (77mm).

The AX3 isn't a bad ski, but the Supersports are better all around. It just doesn't serve a purpose in the Volkl line anymore.
post #6 of 27
Friends and I have been talking lately about all the skis in the Volkl line. We tend to agree there there is some overlap. I do disagree with the statement about "noticeably worse on hardpack". I tune my own skis and I'm impressed with my AX3's grip on ice.

Out west the 74mm waist may be more desirable.
post #7 of 27
Just as an FYI - the AX3 isn't gone from Volkl for next year - it's called the EXS. New to the line is the EXP, which will fill that niche that the AX3 had, but with a bit more pizzazz if you will. Back to the original question, either next year's Gamma Supersport (which rips in all conditions..and yeah, it's pink (hot pink!)) or the Gamma AX3 from this year would be steps in the right direction for segbrown.
post #8 of 27
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Sprspeedgal:
Just as an FYI - the AX3 isn't gone from Volkl for next year - it's called the EXS. New to the line is the EXP, which will fill that niche that the AX3 had, but with a bit more pizzazz if you will. Back to the original question, either next year's Gamma Supersport (which rips in all conditions..and yeah, it's pink (hot pink!)) or the Gamma AX3 from this year would be steps in the right direction for segbrown.
It's really pink?? All pink? I don't know if I can do that ...

What's the difference between the Supersport 4 star and the gamma? The construction? They appear to be both 112-67-97.

And the EXP has more pizazz -- can you describe? Same dimensions as the AX3 or different?

Thanks for everyone's replies, by the way.

[ March 02, 2004, 10:19 AM: Message edited by: segbrown ]
post #9 of 27
The Gamma Supersport is actually similar in graphic to the 6 star- but pink where the 6 is yellow -- black ski with pink chevrons to stars - very cool!
The Supersport 4 star and Gamma are the same shape, but the Gamma has Volkl's gamma core, which is lighter and softer than the core used in the 4 star - although I've skied both and think the Gamma holds better in a variety of conditions. The EXP is a bit wider than the AX3 was 114/74/92 to the AX3s110/71/97. so it floats a bit better plus the ski is a bit stiffer, which makes it snap a bit more.
post #10 of 27
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Sprspeedgal:
The Gamma Supersport is actually similar in graphic to the 6 star- but pink where the 6 is yellow -- black ski with pink chevrons to stars - very cool!
The Supersport 4 star and Gamma are the same shape, but the Gamma has Volkl's gamma core, which is lighter and softer than the core used in the 4 star - although I've skied both and think the Gamma holds better in a variety of conditions. The EXP is a bit wider than the AX3 was 114/74/92 to the AX3s110/71/97. so it floats a bit better plus the ski is a bit stiffer, which makes it snap a bit more.
Okay, that sounds better. I was picturing something 80s-ish. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Thanks for the info; it's been very helpful. Have you skied the Superspeed? We skied with a guy on Saturday who was using them. They were cool-looking, in a mildly menacing way. I wanted to take some bump runs, but he laughed and said no way, he'd probably break them!
post #11 of 27
In all the discussion of dimensions and models, a simple, yet overlooked, part of the puzzle is how you ski each of the skis mentioned.

Specifically, the Supersports and 7 24 Pro prefer (require?) turn initiation in the shovel area; while the AX3/EXP/EXS will ski well in the middle. At least for the AX3 and 7 24 Pro, turn radii are so close that it's a non-issue. Knowing all this, I purposely put my wife on the AX3 rather the 7 24 Pro or Supersport.

It may be obvious, but the more agressive and/or better technical skier will reap greater rewards from the Supersports and Pro's - than will a lesser skilled skier - because the better skier will pressure the tip more effectively. (I'm purposely trying to be very simplistic in my descriptions and don't wish to engage in a technical debate.)

Having skied each of the models mentioned, I can say that I liked them all and each had their strongs points. My point is that each ski has it's own distinct personality and you should try each to see which one floats your boat.
post #12 of 27
Thanks IG I never looked at it that way before. I now have more knowledge as to why some skis feel different then others. I could tell the difference but hadn't realy thought much about why.

IG,You are the Greatest [img]smile.gif[/img]
post #13 of 27
Thread Starter 
Wouldn't you know it: as I sit here in my bed (sick), I happened upon that Snow-motion TV show/advertisement on Fox. Serendipitously, they were featuring the Supersport Gamma. So I got to at least see it (and hear the fawning recommendations!).
post #14 of 27
Did you mean these skis?

post #15 of 27
Thread Starter 
Dose are dem.
post #16 of 27
but the real volkl question is WHERE IS THE G4?????
post #17 of 27
Question for you Volkl experts & fans to help focus my demoing efforts.

I'm a lightweight middle aged (5'8", 140lbs, 57yo) advanced but non-expert skier looking to upgrade/shorten from my current 177cm Volkl Carver Motions, and am considering 2002-03 demo models of both the 5* and Vertigo Motion/G3 (predecessor to the 724 AX3).

I ski mostly frontside including bumps, though pow and crud when available, and teach level 1-4 students so need to be able to do slow wedge & wedge christie turns.

I've demoed the Carver Motion in 170cm (liked it), Carver Motion or G3 in 177cm (couldn't turn it), and Fischer S500 in 160 (lively and fun but stiff and demanding). Haven't yet demoed the 5* at all.

Questions after reading all the prior posts on these and other skis:
-- How are the 5* and Vertigo Motion/G3/AX3 on slow wedge & wedge christie turns? (For comparison, my Carver Motions do them OK.)
-- For the 5* would you recommend 161cm (2nd shortest in the line) or 168cm (middle in the line). Stability and maneuverability differences between these lengths?
-- For the Carver Motion/G3, would you recommend 163cm (shortest in the line) or 170cm (2nd shorted). Stability & maneuverability diffs between lengths? Effect of Motion (integrated rail) vs flat (conventional) binding setup on length recommendation?
-- Recommended choice for my uses between 5*, Carver Motion/G3/AX3, and other skis?

Thanks in advance.
post #18 of 27
Quote:
Originally posted by laseranimal:
but the real volkl question is WHERE IS THE G4?????
..and the Vertigo G3 ... what's with this!! : [img]graemlins/evilgrin.gif[/img]
(well, was the "original" 00'-02' G3 put on the shelf... (another intuitive [img]tongue.gif[/img] move by management [img]graemlins/evilgrin.gif[/img] )
post #19 of 27
Quote:
Originally posted by laseranimal:
but the real volkl question is WHERE IS THE G4?????
I suppose if I said the G4 became the AX4 you'd ask me where the AX4 went. Well, that's a good question. Having fallen in love with the G4/AX4, I am thinking I may have to keep the AX4's for a couple of years. Not a terrible prospect, but I was going to sell them at year-end.

There isn't a direct replacement for the AX4, but there are several choices flanking the space formerly held by the beloved G4/AX4.

Sorry, that wasn't much help.
post #20 of 27
Quote:
Originally posted by HaveSkisWillClimb:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by laseranimal:
but the real volkl question is WHERE IS THE G4?????
..and the Vertigo G3 ... what's with this!! : [img]graemlins/evilgrin.gif[/img]
(well, was the "original" 00'-02' G3 put on the shelf... (another intuitive [img]tongue.gif[/img] move by management [img]graemlins/evilgrin.gif[/img] )
</font>[/quote]Well now, let's see. The G30 became the G31, which became the G3 which we now know as the AX3. The AX3 is available flat or with the integrated motion system and truly is a step forward when compared to its older siblings. Personally, I don't/won't miss the G3/AX3 nearly as much as the G4/AX4. Having skied the new EXP, I can tell you that it is a very able successor to the G3/AX3 throne.
post #21 of 27
Patro46, at your light weight you may want to look at the 4*. I would also say you should be on a shorter lenght. A 177cm is way to much ski for you. I like the AX3. I find it easy and forgiving. Not a high energy ride but predictable.
post #22 of 27
Quote:
Originally posted by Inspector Gadget:

Specifically, the Supersports and 7 24 Pro prefer (require?) turn initiation in the shovel area; while the AX3/EXP/EXS will ski well in the middle.
It may be obvious, but the more agressive and/or better technical skier will reap greater rewards from the Supersports and Pro's - than will a lesser skilled skier - because the better skier will pressure the tip more effectively... (I'm purposely trying to be very simplistic in my descriptions and don't wish to engage in a technical debate.)

Inspector Gadget could you fill in a few details for me regarding this. I've been on the 5 Star for 2 seasons and I love them. However, I've always thought that this tendency was a little too pronounced. A few weeks ago I skied a pair of race stock K2 sl's for 2 days (thank you Arcmeister) and loved them but when I went back to the 5 Stars I actually checked the binding placement to make sure it was set up correctly. I have the flat ski-no rails. It took me more than a few turns to re-adjust to them. So, why would they design it this way? Is it the ski design or the binding placement design? What are the advantages/disadvantages? If you have the rails can you compensate by shifting the binding forward? 0.25"? 0.5"? Is any of this in the Volkl literature? And finally, do you know if the P60 SL racing (either the 120 or 116 shovel) is designed this way?

Thanks for any light you (or anyone) can shed on this! Or if anyone can point me to a source for this info-thanks.
post #23 of 27
Quote:
Originally posted by Inspector Gadget:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by laseranimal:
but the real volkl question is WHERE IS THE G4?????
I suppose if I said the G4 became the AX4 you'd ask me where the AX4 went. Well, that's a good question. Having fallen in love with the G4/AX4, I am thinking I may have to keep the AX4's for a couple of years. Not a terrible prospect, but I was going to sell them at year-end.

There isn't a direct replacement for the AX4, but there are several choices flanking the space formerly held by the beloved G4/AX4.

Sorry, that wasn't much help.
</font>[/quote]I was planing to sell my g4's also. I had a bunch of offers but I just couldnt make myself do it. They are now a very permenent part of my quiver.

duke
post #24 of 27
Dano54, Inspector: I recently mounted tyrolia railflex on AX4 with the rearmost position lined up with Volkl's center, therefore I can move it 1.5 and 3cm forward. Yesterday, I skied with it all the way forward (3cm) and alternated runs (on groomed) with the 724 Pro (same length). I felt the G4 was carving tighter, easier arcs than the Pro on hard snow! I have skied the Pro in 2 lengths and not liked it. Now I think this is because the bindings are on the tail of the ski. Atomic, who also has a rear centerline has moved it forward, at least on the Metrons. Enough has been written about this subject, I just wanted to share my on the snow experience. The motion plates have dimple marks which allow you to mount it forward if you wish - you can have extra holes drilled out.
post #25 of 27
I have a Q about the whole Volkl binding mounting platform.

Do we all feel pretty good about mounting to those little plastic rails? They seem so flimsy!

I looked at a pair of 7 24's and was like, I dunno.

Educate me.
post #26 of 27
As far as the plastic rails go, they would not sell them if they were not good enough. Personally I like the ski flat. You can put what ever binding you want on it.

I haven't skied the same ski with both bindings. Can someone like IG ski the AX3 both way's and give us there impressions?

I don't think most of us of the ability to buy two pairs of the same ski, one flat and one Motion to tell the difference.
post #27 of 27
Quote:
Originally posted by Xdog1:
Do we all feel pretty good about mounting to those little plastic rails? They seem so flimsy!
No education but I was on an almost new pair of Volkl Motion Vertigos (mine were returned for other warranty issues and these were a loan pair). I was skiing down a gentle tree cut (w/o poles) and jumped back onto the trail (green) which was in effect a small kicker. I landed tails down,weight back, at about 10mph. The left binding departed from the ski and brakes up. My thigh landed on IT.
Luckily this was two inches below my hip bone but the impact left a solid lump 4" round for 6 months.
When we had picked up the pieces and rugby tackled the brakeless ski, I found numerous bits of black plastic. That's when I found out the rail was plastic. The skis were returned and I got a refund instead of warrenty replacements. Too much risk for me on the normal, decent slopes.
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