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Today's Youth

post #1 of 25
Thread Starter 
This doesn't belong in the tragic thread about the "accident" at JH, but it is related.

In Nov 2003, the daughter of a fellow condo owner had a small party. Some of her "guests" decided they would kick in the doors of 15 units and vandalize and steal property in those units. All of those involved are under 18, so no information can be released on their identity. One and a half years later none of the kids has borne any responsibility. I lost about $3k-$4k worth of ski clothing and misc stuff. The association was hit with $15k+ to replace doors.

The state police have investigated and know who the criminals are. My wife received two pieces of clothing back. However, repeated attempts to press this case with the authorities have been met with claims that "the parents have money and have hired attorneys". The police can't prove which one of the kids did what, so they can't put a case together with charges they feel will hold up in court.

I had a discussion with the Governor of the state and he lit a fire under everyone's but for a few weeks, but then it was back to normal. I need to take time to resurrect the case again to make these kids take some responsibility. The parents might believe they are helping their children, but they have taught them the worst lesson for being contributing members of society.

This is an example of why we have the problems we do on today's slopes. It isn't that some people are just "bad skiers/boarders".. they are irresponsible people and a burden on society. The challenge is how to get them off the slopes before skiing becomes unpleasant and unsafe for all.
post #2 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by medmarkco
This doesn't belong in the tragic thread about the "accident" at JH, but it is related.

In Nov 2003, the daughter of a fellow condo owner had a small party. Some of her "guests" decided they would kick in the doors of 15 units and vandalize and steal property in those units. All of those involved are under 18, so no information can be released on their identity. One and a half years later none of the kids has borne any responsibility. I lost about $3k-$4k worth of ski clothing and misc stuff. The association was hit with $15k+ to replace doors.

The state police have investigated and know who the criminals are. My wife received two pieces of clothing back. However, repeated attempts to press this case with the authorities have been met with claims that "the parents have money and have hired attorneys". The police can't prove which one of the kids did what, so they can't put a case together with charges they feel will hold up in court.

I had a discussion with the Governor of the state and he lit a fire under everyone's but for a few weeks, but then it was back to normal. I need to take time to resurrect the case again to make these kids take some responsibility. The parents might believe they are helping their children, but they have taught them the worst lesson for being contributing members of society.

This is an example of why we have the problems we do on today's slopes. It isn't that some people are just "bad skiers/boarders".. they are irresponsible people and a burden on society. The challenge is how to get them off the slopes before skiing becomes unpleasant and unsafe for all.
Sorry to hear about your probem.

We have the same type of thing going on around us. About 4 years ago there were 2 incidents, one in our town and another nearby. Kids had parties that got out of hand and there was 6 figure damage and theft in both cases. One of the houses was totally uninhabitable and their new Mercedes 600 was joy ridden and trashed as well. The other house was vandalized and many items, including jewelry, was stolen. They kids were prosecuted but many irreplacable items were destroyed or never returned. Nobody went to jail but they were fined and some restitution was required as well as community service. If this would have happened in a less affluent area some the kids would have gone to jail.
post #3 of 25
oh this is what i have been waiting for ready

1.Rude adults have rude childen.
2.spoiled adults have spoiled childen.
3.mean adults have mean childen.
4.brainless adults have brainless childen.

Not to say that even if you try and do everything right you will do better.
and try and remember 1/2 of the world is filled with *******s..thats a fact that is hard to deny"dont need a stinkin study either" and if you keep that in mind it all makes sense dont it...
post #4 of 25
Thread Starter 
Thanks bismeral. It wasn't a big loss, but the message that it sends is disturbing when parents do not teach their children, nor hold them accountable. Usually a failure on the parent's part- not the kids. I agree, in less affluent areas people go to jail... should be universal but it isn't. There was a time when more affluent children were more behaved (generally)- today many seem to act with impunity.
post #5 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by skidbump
oh this is what i have been waiting for ready

1.Rude adults have rude childen.
2.spoiled adults have spoiled childen.
3.mean adults have mean childen.
4.brainless adults have brainless childen.
Not always, but generally probably true. I do know some adults from my parent's generation who were extremely nice and responsible people. How they ended up with the monsters for children/"young adults" they did is unbelievable. Probably because they gave them everything they ever wanted.

Anyway, I digress... not skiing related.
post #6 of 25
Um,
I was actually one of those kids as a teenager. Not rich, but defanitely rotten. I was a grade A Ahole. I still am to some extent.

As soon as I started taking some responsibility in my life I realized how damaging my actions were and to this day regret being such a creep. Those parents who are protecting their kids are doing them a diservice. As soon as those kids are required to take some responsibility, the sooner they will come around.

I have to say it ain't just the rich kids, it is the kid of any clueless parent who will protect their child first, no matter what they did.

Most kids are good though.
post #7 of 25
I have a phrase for these upper and upper middle class suburban rats.

Lifestyles of the rich and aimless

I agree it's a problem with the way they were raised.
post #8 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by medmarkco
Not always, but generally probably true. I do know some adults from my parent's generation who were extremely nice and responsible people. How they ended up with the monsters for children/"young adults" they did is unbelievable. Probably because they gave them everything they ever wanted.

Anyway, I digress... not skiing related.
A digression, but we see lots of rude and irresponsible behavior on the ski slopes which is a reflection of society in general. When I was running a ski school 30 years ago we had a lot of rude teens but they still knew enough not to verbally and physically challenge every request for responsible behavior. Their lift tickets would be pulled without hesitation and if they made a scene...the sheriff was close by. Rarely had to do that.

Glad my kids are all grown up and I don't have to deal with today's behavior.

I generally agree that kids are a reflection of the parents but sometimes not. Some kids are good and some are not regardless of their parents. The kids that are bad are the most frustrating for parents because no matter what you do or say they keep doing bad things. And then there are some kids who are just better than their parents....must be a genetic thing....
post #9 of 25
Ah to be young!

On a more serious note: was drinking involved? Kids these days don't get the opportunity to learn how to drink which causes them to over react when they get their hands on it. We need to leet them learn how to drink!
post #10 of 25
Seems like you need to have a talk with the Prosecutor to press criminal charges and be willing to sign the complaint. You may encounter "politics" at this level but a good lawyer should be able to determine (and advise you), if a reasonable prosecution is possible.

Second remedy is a tort action against the named individuals. The criminal case may be harder to "prove", but in a civil action the burden of proof is reduced. The police reports are probably discoverable and could be used in recovery.

Not a lawyer .... But I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night!

Good luck ...the brats and parents need to feel the heat!
post #11 of 25
Sue the people who had the party. Then they will probably rat out the ones responsible.
post #12 of 25
my dad taught me how to drink
so now i only drink wine and sake.
ive never been drunk =)

it's the whole postmodernism and feminism movement, it gave power to the individual which gives them to false sense of freedom. today's society is about ME. the media is flooded with self indulgence materials. so when ppl are going down the slope, is "get out of MY way" not "ill get out of your way so u can enjoy ur skiing trip"

and the comment about upper and upper middle class. not all are snobs, but prob 99% of them are.
post #13 of 25
It all comes down to parenting. I take the approach that my number one job in life is to provide a safe and healthy lifestyle for my kids, and to prepare them to be self sufficient and respectful adults one day. It's that simple, but it's a job that requires some effort. Some parents are not willing to make that effort and the rude and disrespectful kids (and future adults) you meet on a daily basis are a by product of that lack of effort. To make things worse, when these kids grow up and have kids, chances are they will "parent" in the same manner as their parents did with them, and it's a cycle that lives on.
post #14 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach13
It all comes down to parenting. I take the approach that my number one job in life is to provide a safe and healthy lifestyle for my kids, and to prepare them to be self sufficient and respectful adults one day. It's that simple, but it's a job that requires some effort. Some parents are not willing to make that effort and the rude and disrespectful kids (and future adults) you meet on a daily basis are a by product of that lack of effort. To make things worse, when these kids grow up and have kids, chances are they will "parent" in the same manner as their parents did with them, and it's a cycle that lives on.
You are right. Parenting is a hard job and takes lots of effort. It is an active job and not always one that makes you popular, particularly now that kids know they have rights. Too many parents are indulgent and try to be friends instead of parents to their children. There is a time for that but after they have grown up.

It is difficult, if not impossible, for teachers, police officers, and others to discipline kids when their parents defend their bad behavior. If my children misbehaved at school they knew the consequences. If we had an issue with the teacher or administrator that was discussed without the knowledge of the kids. Fortunately, we never had to discuss any problems with the law.

Keep up the good work Coach13.
post #15 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsimeral
Fortunately, we never had to discuss any problems with the law.
That's because you made the effort to play a positive role. It's no accident.

Too many parents parents look at good kids vs. bad kids as being the luck of the draw.
post #16 of 25
Kids today are bombarded with negative influences. Seems like we as a society are rewarding negitive rude bad behavior. I'm not just talking about "pop culture" I'm also talking about the world that the kids parents are living. It's ok to cut corners lie and take the short cut as long as when you do it you wear a suit and tie. Little johnny and Jane see Mom and Dad doing it and the message is clear. With money and influance you can get away with just about anything The more money and the more influance means you can get away with more. Why should little Johnny take resonsbility for getting drunk and trashing someones home at a Party? If he is arrested it could mean he maynot get into the right College. With out the right school he can't make the right connectings. It's hard to teach a kid to have respect and live by a code of ethics when they see a world that tells them that it is those who that don't follow these rules are the one that are rewarded.
post #17 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach13
That's because you made the effort to play a positive role. It's no accident.

Too many parents parents look at good kids vs. bad kids as being the luck of the draw.
Your are right but sometimes there are kids who are just bad a apples and others whose strength of character overcomes their adverse situation. But those are exceptions to the rule.

Parental input is needed. Kids have too much freedom too early in life. And too much given to them. My kids were expected to work at 16 (part time) to fund some needs and wants and we expected them to shoulder part of college. They did not like it at the time as we could easily have afforded to make their lives easy but they all thanked us when they reached their late 20s and understood what they had been given.
post #18 of 25

Upper Middle Class Kids & Golden Rule

The remarks about "upper middle class kids" is like all generalizations is biased. As a member of the UMC I think it's more important how a child is raised than what class they belong to. Any child raised with a sense of entitilement is going to be in trouble. I know kids from all classes and there are good ones and bad ones and their upbringing is more important than their parent's class.

I always say that I wish I had been my parent. But lessons learned in growing up solidly middle class are the same ones I'm passing on to my children. Responsibility and accountability are 2 of the most important, along with the golden rule "treat others as you wish to be treated".
post #19 of 25
Bring back old fashioned spanking and banish the time outs!
Bring back real chores - the ones that would take at least one hour to complete.
Make them work for what they get.
Don't let little instances of bad behavior slide - they become big instances later.
Be a positive role model as a parent.
Take a field trip to a jail, volunteer at a soup kitchen or drug treatment facility as a family so they can see the consequences of the type of mistakes you want them to avoid.
post #20 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by bklyntrayc
Bring back old fashioned spanking and banish the time outs!
.
If a time out doesn't feel like punishment to a child, it won't be effective. There are other effective means of disciplining children without resorting to physical violence. Deprive them of something they want and they'll learn soon enough not to engage in inappropriate behavior. Beating a child is never acceptable. How could anyone ever hit someone they love?
post #21 of 25
The law should stop pussy footing with criminals, no matter what age they are, and make them PAY for their crimes. You wonder what kind of a society we live in when 1/4 of the teenagers/young adults are committing serious crimes, another 1/4 are criminal wannabe's, 1/4 are trying to find them selves and the final 1/4 are considered spoiled babies because they are as 'normal' as normal can be!
post #22 of 25
Our goal for parenting is to raise our children to be blessings to others. So far, we seem to be succeeding (as reported back to us by the parents of friends, adults who sit near us at restaurants, etc.). Even at 3, 8, and 10, they understand the responsibility that they have to generate their environment.

FWIW, I think Tracy is right. As long as there is wisdom involved...
post #23 of 25
waaayyyy too many generalisations here .. most kids are good,, well behaved etc. if they are too noisy/rowdy/fun loving for some then whose problem is that really..
there is no excuse for vandalism or injuring others but i think some of these statements have gone way too far.

if what was said above about 1/2 of us being A*holes is true.(this includes everyone adults kids grandparents whatever).
just remember that the other half probably has some bad days too.. soo that means on any given day by far the majority of us are ignorant b*stards...

i dont like my odds,, or my chances of survival...
post #24 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by skidbump
oh this is what i have been waiting for ready

1.Rude adults have rude childen.
2.spoiled adults have spoiled childen.
3.mean adults have mean childen.
4.brainless adults have brainless childen.

Not to say that even if you try and do everything right you will do better.
and try and remember 1/2 of the world is filled with *******s..thats a fact that is hard to deny"dont need a stinkin study either" and if you keep that in mind it all makes sense dont it...
Obviously over simplified, but largely accurate.

Unfortunately, there are just bad apples out there as well.
post #25 of 25
Children need discipline and structure and positive examples. Many are not giving that to their kids.

When conversation and deprivation has failed to modify bad behavior...
a good solid slap on the behind will get their attention.

I'm not talking about bruises and raising welts... or child abuse.
I always heard "this will hurt me more than it hurts you" now I understand that it's not bull. I only got 3 spankings in a lifetime. I got the message.
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