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Learning Curve For Metrons - Page 2

post #31 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomB
Where the Metrons shine is in their ability to bridge the gap between a SL ski and an all-mountain ski that can handle crud and powder with some apptitude. That is where the 76mm waist and wide tip/tail make a difference.
Damn-it. I thought that was skier ability.
post #32 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomB
Again, I am not saying that the B5 does not deserve praise. But for those of you who know how to use, and take advantage of, a SL ski (like the SL9 or SL11, for example), the carving abilities of the B5 should be nothing special.
I think what's different about the B5 is its carving ability on hardpack/ice considerng its an all mountain ski. So you can spend the morning carving up groomed runs with your friends that don't enjoy skiing in the crud (just like on my SL9s) and then you can jump into the crud for the afternoon and it just plows right through. Also interesting is its ability to carve nice tight turns in the crud. For me this is something new. Sure, I can make nice turns in crud with other all mountain skis, but with the B5 I can get a real nice carve.
post #33 of 55
How do you ski steep falline bumps with these things???
I demoed the M11 this Saturday and I could not get them to skid on a steep slope with firm snow. That made speed control a bit tough. I don't know about you guys, but I tend to skid the end of falline turns on the steeps for speed control. I found these skis don't like to skid at all. In fact, I felt they were kind of a one-trick-pony: they just want to carve all the time. I'm wondering if there is a learning curve for these things, or if there are better TRUE all mountain skis. They sure were fun arcing turns on the groomers and I thought they were very good in the crud too, but bumps - well, bigger was definitely better.

Greg
post #34 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by gehoff
How do you ski steep falline bumps with these things???

Greg
I don't have any problems getting the B5's to skid. I think they are great everywhere including bumps.
post #35 of 55
Greg: Perhaps it's an issue of style. I usually scrub speed in bumps by braking on the carve, and the B:5's work well for that. Like Max, I find the B:5's excellent in bumps.

The Metrons are indeed carve meisters, but I wouldn't consider them a one-trick pony. On the contrary, I find the B:5's more adaptable to varied conditions and terrain than any ski I've tried.

However, I'll admit I haven't done much skidding on them. You should be able to let the edge go. But, if you're running the zipper line, I suspect you're right; these may not be the most suitable boards.
post #36 of 55
I ski my B5s five days a week in all terrain and conditions. They skid just fine, but they are a precise ski, meaning you have to be precise in your moves if you wnat them to skid or carve. I do pivot slips on black groomers ect. on the b5's. Sidehill 360s I do frequently, along with bumps and steeps, which is where I teach over half the time and these skis will do it all.

I even pack them to the ridge at bridger when I take my classes hiking.

Having skied the M11, I found it to be more forginving to skidding and less performance across the board. a very good ski but not up to the standards of the B5. I have never been on a ski so versatile. Later, RicB.
post #37 of 55
I had no issues skidding the M:XI's when needed. I skied them all over the mountain at jackson. My only problem was in the icy bumps we had on Monday. With that said, I was skiing aweful that day, so it might have been the skier as much as the ski. I would like to try the B5 some time, but in a 172.
post #38 of 55
Thread Starter 
I am not a great bump skier to begin with but I sometimes have issues on the M:XI's if I am even slightly off of my game.

The tails are kind of stiff for people who like to ski the bumps slightly in the backseat.

You will accelerate right onto your butt if you are not careful.

I don't have an issue skidding them either but that is not what they are made for.
post #39 of 55
Scalce: Are you comfortable skiing bumps in the backseat?

In my experience, unless one gets back over the ski at the end of the turn, catastrophe ensues.

Bode Miller runs gates this way, letting the skis jet from under him at the start of the turn. This is how he gets an edge in speed. However, he has the unique ability to time his recovery over the skis just as they hit the turn. Tough stuff!

Even with Bodes exceptional timing, strength and balance, he too gets punished if he errs ever so slightly.

Bump and gates are obviously very different situations. But I believe the "backseat" principle applies to both. If you're going to do it successfully, in anything other than slush and powder, you need to be a phenom athlete.
post #40 of 55
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Strato
Scalce: Are you comfortable skiing bumps in the backseat?
No

I ski way far forward.

Most of my wipeouts in the bumps are usually me falling forward with my hands out in front.

I see alot of people on X-Screams and other all mountain skis with softer tails and they fly through the bumps pretty well but they are definately skiing from the backseat. On a ski with a stiffer tail they would have a rough time.
post #41 of 55
Thanks for all the comments. Please don't get me wrong - I got them to skid plenty. I was referring to a particlar situation - steep and firm snow. The kind of firm where your skis want to hook-up. I found that skidding at the end of a very short radius turn, where edge angles and pressure are naturally increasing, was unpredictable.

From all your comments it sounds like it is me, and not the skis. I do tend to end some turns back a bit and maybe that is the problem. As for a precise ski, I would have said the M11 have an enormous sweet spot compared to my SL11s, which I was testing the ski against. I found that it was easier to skid the slalom skis than the M11 and I assumed that was the reason. On the M11, the tails seemed to hook up unpredictably. Of course I am more familiar with the slaloms, so that may be it.

Capt. Strato - What does "braking in the carve" mean?

Greg
post #42 of 55
gehoff, it could be the tune, too...
post #43 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Pugliese
I would like to try the B5 some time, but in a 172.
Try it in both. The 162 is probably about as beefy as a M:11 in 172.
post #44 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssh
Try it in both. The 162 is probably about as beefy as a M:11 in 172.

I would want the 172....just to spite you.
post #45 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Pugliese
I would want the 172....just to spite you.
Ah. The weight thing, again. We all have our handicaps...
post #46 of 55
I am the Atomic rep at my mountain and have skied Atomics for many years. My favorite skis in the past have been Slalom skis the 9.16s and then the SL11s. I think that the SL11's are fairly versatile and will even perform in the bumps. My new favorite ski is the b5s. They have an advantage over the SL11s in the versatility area being better in deeper snow and in broken up crud. The SL11s are better in hard snow but I must say that I have skied the b5s in some nasty eastern conditions (ie boilerplate and icy steep bumps) and find the skis more than adequate (actually I was surprised that a ski with this wide a waist would preform this well in the hard snow). I understand that many peolpe think that the "one ski quiver" is just marketing hype but I must say that the Metron b5s are as close as it gets (the M11 aren't bad either but need to be skied longer than the b5s).

I am PSIA level III cert and am about 200lbs, ski on the 162 b5s and find them rock solid in eastern conditions.
post #47 of 55
dmel, welcome to EpicSki! Good to have you here. Watch out for Phil, though...
post #48 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssh
dmel, welcome to EpicSki! Good to have you here. Watch out for Phil, though...
Oh, yeah...I'm the bad guy...suuuuuure...:
post #49 of 55
dmel: Be careful. Never give your home address out to anyone here. Most are under observation and heavily medicated.
post #50 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Strato
dmel: Be careful. Never give your home address out to anyone here. Most are under observation and heavily medicated.
Or large amounts of drugs and/or alcohol
post #51 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmel
I am the Atomic rep at my mountain and have skied Atomics for many years. .
Welcome to the board. This place is infested with Atomicholics.
post #52 of 55
dmel, you need to know that Phil has been a Flexon/Volant guy for, well, like decades. Until this year. See, he got talked into some Kryptons by a guy with a flaming mohawk, then shamed into trying some Metrons by some Internet forum dude. Now, he's even left his longtime affair with Salomon bindings and put the Neoxs on his M:11s.

Of course, it's mostly my fault!
post #53 of 55
Ok, so I'm trying to decipher what the main differences/challenges are in skiing on metrons versus some random ski of a different design. I want to try M9's or M10's as a step up from my C7's, and i'm looking for some main pointers on what to expect as I push off from the top of the trail gazing off into the New Hampshire panorama.

So here are some specific questions.

1) I think of myself and being precise at what I do (cautious and precise to be exact). Will this ski like that or not?

2) I am just beginning to think of myself as being a carver versus a turner, so I'm still not strongly edging the way a true carver can. Will this ski catapult me into the woods or nudge me onto my edges more?

3) My index of 1245 puts me above the 164 in the M10 and M9 but way shy of the 171, so is this a round down or a round up?

4) Will these skis be good for skiing in the west or Europe (I will get there once or twice a year) but my main base is NH Sunapee (90 mins from my front door)

5) I wear Rossignol Soft boots because they just seem to fit me well and I like them (not very technical i know). Will I be better off with a different boot with these skis. In other words I dont want to demo or buy these skis without having the right boot.

6) I'm still in the lesson-taking stage. Will my instructors have any clue how to teach me new things if I'm on these skis?

Add a few additional comments of your own
post #54 of 55
1) They do reward precision, but you don't need to be precise.

2) It will reward your tipping, but not punish your skidding.

3) Round down.

4) Yes. They are great all-around skis.

5) No, I think you'll be OK. A stronger "lateral" boot will help them perform better, but you'll be fine.

6) If they know what they're doing!

While these skis reward carving technique, they are not going to punish you. The M:11 and b5 require a lot more from the skier, but even they won't toss you around. They just won't perform as well as they could if you don't push them.

I'd recommend that you start with the M:9 and go from there.
post #55 of 55
I don't know about any Metron but the B5, but I can't imagine skiing it with anything other than a stiff boot.
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