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What to wear while training

post #1 of 22
Thread Starter 
I was just wondering what most racers on the board wear while training. I have a speedsuit and training shorts (which I wear on race days), but was wondering if most guys wear suits/shorts on training days as well, or just stealth tops along with relevant armor (for slalom).
post #2 of 22
If I'm doing gate training, I generally wear a GS racing suit with training shorts (and shin armor, pole guards and previously depreciated pair of cracked goggles, if I'm running slalom gates):

(1) the GS racing suit has padding where the makers think I need it. (My Descente racing suit even has nice padding on the knees, which will probably save me from a nasty bruise there someday, when I do the patented crash on gate X, speed slide into the bottom of gate X+1 thing...)

(2) it's best to train the way you race--and I think it actually makes a difference, at least in GS. I sometimes ski Nastar gates in bibs (or, in the final run, in bibs and a jacket) and the extra wind resistance means that the gates come at me noticeably slower. Since speed in transition, early rolling to new edges, early line and looking ahead are all issues for me, I think it's better that I work on those skills at actual race speed. (And, similarly, it's a good idea to have properly waxed, scraped skis for race training, IMHO.)

(3) the uniform--racing suit and shorts--mean (A) you take yourself seriously as a racer, and you're there to train, (B) other racers on the lift and in line know you're a racer and relate to you that way. Some of the best advice I've ever gotten was from other racers I was riding a ski lift with.

All that having been said, you may want to dress to fit in or for comfort. I find that for drop in masters training and juniors and masters racing clinics, almost everyone has been in speed suits and shorts unless it was insanely cold, but for the one-day race clinic for a recreational club league everyone was in bibs.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents, but you might want to take it with a grain of salt, since the way my skis scraped in the middle of Sunday's GS club race, the CRRRSSHHHH...CRRRSSHHH soundtrack would have drowned out any advice from this skier.

SfDean.

Frightening instructors since at least 1996.
post #3 of 22
Thread Starter 
Thanks so much for the advice. I'm just getting back into racing after a long absence, and plan on dropping in on Masters Training this Friday to train slalom. I was planning to wear my full suit/armor, but didn't want to be totally out of place...

Incidentally, are you from the Bay Area (your screen name being "SfDean")? If so, were you racing Masters GS at Northstar this weekend? I was there on Saturday for GS, and was making similar scraping sounds (albeit probably much louder than yours) to what you described....if you ARE from the Bay Area, where else do you race/train? Do you only do Masters racing, or are there other groups to train/race with? I only plan on racing 1-2 more times this year (once being next weekend at Mt. Rose), but would really like to spend a lot of time training in prep for next year. After my debut in Saturday's GS, I really need it.

Thanks again for your help - I really appreciate the advice!

Jeff
post #4 of 22
sfdean,
Where do you want my signature under your post?

Racing suit - whether training gates or just skiing free.
Its tightness makes me feel the muscle tonus and it literally makes a different skier from me.
I can´t imagine skiing without this (psychological) support the racing suit gives me.
I would feel not prepared, not ready to ski, "soft" overall, like about to have a walk, not to ski my best.

I agree: in the racing suit you´re a racer.
I remember a talk on the lift with some young and fairly good Austrian or Swiss racer. When I commented on my older age his uncompromising reaction was: "if you´re a racer then you´re a racer".
post #5 of 22
A divergent voice:

While I haven't made a study of it, most of the people (juniors, mostly, but also masters) I see training are wearing ordinary ski clothes (plus shin / hand / jaw guards for slalom). Maybe they've got suits underneath it all ... that would be hard to tell.

Places I'm familar with, people will give you very funny looks (and even funny comments) if you walk around in a race suit. If you've got a bib (the kind with a number) over it, they can kind of get it. Otherwise, no ....
post #6 of 22
I train most days in bibs and parka, sometimes with my suit underneath. Then again, I am required to tote the gates and help set, so I don't want the extra wear and tear on my suit. The things I will do for a season pass. Most racers I know train in bibs and parkas unless it's for speed training, in which case they wear the suit. This is probably because it's usually either raining or freezing at Alyeska, and comfort is way more important than looking fast. When it's warmer (and drier), I usually wear tighter windblock fleeces and training shorts over my suit to cut down on wind resistance.

Like I said, it isn't about looking fast, it's about making the most of your training day. If you are cold and miserable, you aren't going to get much out of the training.
post #7 of 22
These days I wear the zoot-suit for races only ... and only "big" races at that. When training I'll wear full armor over my normal clothes for slalom, and whatever jacket I think will look good with gate burns on it for GS.

All that said though, if nature calls weren't such a hassle I'd wear it a lot more often under my bibs and coat becuase all of those pads are oh so nice.
post #8 of 22
I see hundreds of racers of different levels from worldcuppers to children. Fact is, it´s mostly in the fall and spring/summer when training on glaciers and when the temperatures are mostly mild and pleasant.
I have no statistics but racing suit + training shorts are practically a uniform irrespective of nationality, level or age.
Sure, when it´s very cold the bibs are an option but otherwise it´s racing suits.
In fall/winter conditions it´s mostly warmer shorts, in warm conditions more often tight and lighter ones.
Tight shorts or better just the racing suit is practically a must during speed training.
I mostly ski in places where there are always some racers so that you don´t get any funny looks. Maybe it´s because Europe is more race-oriented.
OTOH, if you appear in a racing suit in freeriding meccas like Chamonix or Arlberg you surely would be out of place there.
post #9 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsnoland
Thanks so much for the advice. I'm just getting back into racing after a long absence, and plan on dropping in on Masters Training this Friday to train slalom. I was planning to wear my full suit/armor, but didn't want to be totally out of place...

Incidentally, are you from the Bay Area (your screen name being "SfDean")? If so, were you racing Masters GS at Northstar this weekend? I was there on Saturday for GS, and was making similar scraping sounds (albeit probably much louder than yours) to what you described....if you ARE from the Bay Area, where else do you race/train? Do you only do Masters racing, or are there other groups to train/race with? I only plan on racing 1-2 more times this year (once being next weekend at Mt. Rose), but would really like to spend a lot of time training in prep for next year. After my debut in Saturday's GS, I really need it.

Thanks again for your help - I really appreciate the advice!

Jeff
Jeff--

Welcome back to racing!

I am from the Bay Area, but wasn't running Masters racing Sunday, I was doing club racing (Bay Area Ski Counsel Open League) at Sugar Bowl. (Nice long GS course down McTavish. But next time I plan to have more fun by actually carving in the turny section...) Although every year I get a little older and a little faster, and although my long-term plan is to do Masters, current projections show, um, I'll need to continue to improve quite a few more years to get competitive at that level. Those guys (you guys) are FAST. For now, I just do club racing.

I did a day of drop in slalom Masters training last year at Northstar, and have done it at Sugar Bowl this year, and found that, at both places, the participants were all (or all but one guy) in racing suits and armor, and were a mix of Masters racers and club racers, with the club racers ranging from class 0-4 (out of 11, the smaller number being the faster category.)

1. You might consider skiing in some Sierra League club races. You don't have to join a club to race, and you can find their schedule at:

http://www.sierraleague.com/home.jsp

and you can find out more about Far West club (as opposed to Masters) racing here:

http://www.fwra.com/index.html

2. Here's some info I put together for my brother and the race director of our club on some other Masters drop-in/gate training options in the Tahoe area. I've found Sugar Bowl the easiest to deal with because I can get the training schedule off their phone message, from late Tuesday on:

Northstar has masters drop in training 9:30-12 M-F, $35, from Dec. 6 to Apr. 8, with the schedule varying depending on upcoming races and posted in the locker room downstairs in the Lodge at Big Springs. In general, though, M-Tu SL, W-Th GS, Friday "open". Call the hotline to check for cancellation of training for weather.

http://www.northstarattahoe.com/snsa...nGuide2005.pdf

Sugar Bowl has masters drop in training 9-12 Weds-Sun. $40, 530-426-6757, x8 (Weekly schedule available on the message machine)

http://www.sbst.org/team/masters.html

Alpine Meadows has masters drop in training from 10-1 per their Web site, daily. 530-581-8221. Cost is "$235 for a book of 5 tickets". (Last year--and I imaging this year--you could also pay one day fee for drop in.)

http://www.skialpine.com/Clinics.php

Squaw has a "series of Performance Gate Training Clinics", daily from 10-12 (per Web site), weather permitting, with tickets (and location information) at the race training office, red dog base area. Info at 530-581-7188. By phone, they say tickets are $45 for the morning gate training with free skiing in the afternoon for an additional fee, that training runs from 9:30-12, and that tickets can be purchased "at the building that says race services. Look uphill from the [gold coast] funitel. It's by Exhibition." (Which is different from the above info from the Web site.)

http://www.squaw.com/winter/race_clinics.html

I'm told that a year or so ago Boreal had drop in training Wednesday night under the lights, but have never verified it. I called Squaw this year about the gate training clinic mentioned above and got a thoroughly ignorant response when I asked whether it was slalom or GS. ("It's both!" She chirped brightly. Interesting, but silly me, I was planning on only wearing one pair of skis at a time...)

On the racing suit thing, every year my brother and I and my son go to Colorado to ski a few resorts with Nastar racing, so we can qualify for the Nastar Nationals. (Just qualified again, for the fourth year. Getting stomped by serious midwesterners from the land of 800-foot verticals, regularly since 2002...) At some of those resorts, we wear speed suits. At the smaller, local mountains (Ski Cooper, Crested Butte--turns out that it's a tad easier to qualify from those places than Vail) I occasionally get a look. ("Henry! Lookit that guy. He's either a Martian or one of those California Wierd-Os...") But everywhere else it's been a non-issue. At Sugar Bowl, most days they have four separate courses set by the Christmas Tree lift for different groups doing race training, and mid-week sometimes half the people on the Christmas Tree lift are wearing race suits.

Good luck!

SfDean

P.S. Are you from Reno? (Skiing Mt. Rose, I assumed maybe.) I grew up there. (To the extent, of course, I grew up.)

P.P.S. "Objection! Assumes facts not in evidence..."
post #10 of 22
Pardon my ignorance, but what's the purpose of the training shorts overtop the race suit? I see them all the time on the kids.
post #11 of 22
Thread Starter 
Training shorts are used to keep the suit from wearing out, particularly in the seat, from riding the chairlift, brushing gates while training, etc. They also help keep you warm on colder days.
post #12 of 22
Thread Starter 
SfDean - thanks so much for the response and detailed comments. I'm going to check into everything you've listed, particularly the Sierra League and Far West racing options (Masters is still a bit above my head, given I've had no training or racing experience since 1990 - and you're right - those guys/gals are FAST).

FYI - I'm from the Bay Area as well (San Mateo, actually), but planning on doing the Masters Slalom at Mt. Rose on Saturday (Slalom is the only event where I might be able to actually keep up with those folks), and now, thanks to your input, possibly the Singles League Slalom at Northstar on Sunday (wife permitting, of course). As for training on Friday, I'm thinking of hitting Sugar Bowl, as long as they're planning to have a slalom course set. Are you racing this weekend?

Thanks again for the helpful comments, and I look forward to racing with you sometime soon!

Jeff
post #13 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsnoland
As for training on Friday, I'm thinking of hitting Sugar Bowl, as long as they're planning to have a slalom course set. Are you racing this weekend?

Thanks again for the helpful comments, and I look forward to racing with you sometime soon!

Jeff
The Sugar Bowl hotline hasn't been updated for this week yet, but should be late today/tonight/early tomorrow with this week's schedule. I'll be racing next at Alpine Meadows in the Open League races on March 12 (slalom) and 13 (GS). I hope to get a slalom training day in sometime before then. (By now, even the other 3 vets are rooting for the goofy wild guy to strike into 2s--or else just get it over with and crash, since he so regularly looks poised for it.)

You can find the Open League schedule at:

http://www.olrc.org/

(But note that you have to have completed three league races to be eligible for the Far West championships on 3/19-20.)

I'm impressed that you can keep up with those Masters guys in slalom--as a slalom racer, I'm really cut out for Super-G...

Since you're from the Bay Area, I'd really encourage you to join Open League, and even join a ski club. There are several in the South Bay. (And, heck--I live in the East Bay, but joined a club in the North Bay, with my brother who commutes from Oregon but works in the Bay Area.) Ski03 and SnoWonder, from this board, are also Open League racers. Open League is a lot of fun. The guys in the fastest bracket are exceptional racers, but it's a recreational league and fun--even for first time racer/intermediate skier family members, who can start out as class 8-10s and be competitive with others at the same level immediately. And some of the clubs (like ours) rent Tahoe ski houses for all the race weekends, which makes accommodations cheap, easy and fun.

Good luck on Saturday!

SfDean.
post #14 of 22
I'm teaching now, and I wear jeans under my outer pants and up top, my instructor parka whatever under. When I have a free moment I go over to the training hill and run with just that stuff on - and I have the black and blues to prove it!! And my outside pants are torn on the bottom from boot topping. Last week just about finished them off completely.

I also have a Desente suite but I usually don't wear it outside of racing.

Next year I'm getting an upper armor suit that can go under the parka.
post #15 of 22
Thread Starter 
Thanks again, SfDean. As for various clubs/leagues, etc., I'm wondering if you could clarify the relationship is between Open League and Sierra - specifically, the Sierra site seems to indicate that if you're an Open League member, then you're a Sierra member. However, in looking at the schedules on each site, it seems there are separate Open League and Sierra-sponsored races the same days (March 12-13th) at both Alpine (for Open League) and Northstar (for Sierra).

Additionally, it seems that Sierra race registration can be done on the day of the race, while Open League requires payment of nearly $100 in volunteer/membership/bib fees (which doesn't seem like it would make sense for me this year, since the season is almost over).

Are these two clubs related or separate, and which seems to be more active? Sorry if I've misunderstood these sites, but any guidance would, again, be most helpful. Thanks again!

Jeff
post #16 of 22
All of Sierra, Open, and Singles League are part of Far West Racing Association, which is what you really join to race. I've done the equivalent of race day registration for the Sierra League, and I know you can do the same thing for Open League (but you really do have to show up early enough to register, typically in an 8-8:45 a.m. window.)

Sierra League is mostly Reno/Tahoe area skiers; Open League is mostly Bay Area (but there's a Modesto club.) Singles League is, well, I assume partly about at some point getting someone to take the racing suit off... (Don't know from personal experience. But I'm sure it's a better way to meet quality people than reality T.V. And I know I'm at my best after a groin pull or slalom gate rebound to the chin.)

In Open League, I'm pretty sure they don't make you pay the volunteer fee the first time you do it. (Kind of a try before you buy thing.)

For a guy as fast as you are, there's a big advantage of Open League over Sierra League (aside from geography--you might as well be stomping your neighbors, right?): A Sierra Leaguer I talked to said that this year they've gone to running their advanced courses by age and sex first, then by category (e.g., children and "legends"* and "veterans" first, women before men, rather than all the class 0s, then 1s, then 2s, then 3s....) In Open League we still generally run it class 0,1,2,3,4 so that as you advance in class you're rewarded by skiing a cleaner course.

Just remember how rutted that Masters course was when the 80, 70, 60, and 50 year olds had finished slashing it up. Now imagine skiing it as the eighth guy down. That might be your experience, pretty quickly, in Open League, without having to pull a Rip Van Winkle.**

SfDean

* A euphemism. Opposite of young. In the ski movies in my head, I'm a legend, but in the Open League I'm a veteran (45+) and in the Sierra League I'm something like 15 or 20 (?) years shy of legend-hood. On the ski hill, I'm often still a hack.

**Although, sadly, not mine. But I still have plenty of bad habits to throw overboard for more speed.
post #17 of 22
Thread Starter 
Thanks - that's most helpful. I think I'm going to try and hit Sugar Bowl Friday for Slalom training (just called the recording, and Slalom is Friday), then race the Singles League Slalom on Saturday at Northstar. I may then come up again next weekend for Open League/Sierra League races at either Alpine or Northstar. I'm looking forward to competing on what are hopefully slightly easier (and less-rutted) courses than those skiied in Masters, at least until I get my race legs under me again (believe me, I'm not that fast compared to anyone in Masters).

Thanks again for all your help - I really appreciate it. I hope to see you out on the hill sometime soon!

Jeff
post #18 of 22

BAC Sierra FWSA explanations

BAC www.skibac.org is the Bay Area Snow Sports Council which is a nonprofit association of 34 snow sports clubs (click on Join a Club at www.skibac.org for more info) in the San Francisco Bay Area ranging from Monterey up to Napa out to the Sierra Foothills with two racing leagues (Singles League & Open League www.olrc.org). Most of these clubs are year round activity clubs but not all clubs have race teams (see Singles League & Open League websites for further details.)

Six of these clubs are singles clubs with membership under 150 people that belong to the Singles League. The remaining clubs are singles clubs with membership over 150 people or open clubs for all (couples/singles/families) and belong to Open League.

You need to join one of these snow sports clubs so that you can race in Singles League or Open League. Annual membership fees for most clubs range from $25 to $100 with Sunburst being the least expensive as it has no lodge and is more of a virtual club. To see the extensive list of benefits (may include lodge, race team, travel, lift ticket discounts, product/service discounts, social activities, sports activities, community activities, safety education) for belonging to any club in the BAC, go to www.skibac.org and click on Benefits.

The mid peninsula clubs in BAC with race teams are Inskiers Ski Club (San Mateo) www.inskiers.com in Singles League and the following Open League clubs: Sunburst Ski Club (San Mateo) www.skibac.org/sunburst/ and Peninsula Ski Club (Foster City) www.peninsulaskiclub.org.

If you are looking for inexpensive lodging, some of the clubs own lodges/have ski leases in the north Lake Tahoe area with rates mostly ranging between $10-$60/night. For example, my club Apres Ski Club www.apres.org owns a lodge in Kings Beach and charges $15/night. Apres just put in an 8-person hot tub with stereo system, waterfall and lights this year along with a free high speed wireless WiFi network. Apres also has won the Open League the last 7 years in a row.

As you can see from the BAC Racing Calendar http://www.skibac.org/racing/racing_...r_20042005.htm, Open League still has 6 races left 3/12 Alpine Meadows GS, 3/13 Alpine Meadows SL, 3/19 Heavenly Far West SL, 3/20 Heavenly Far West GS, 4/2 Alpine Meadows NorCal SL, 4/3 Alpine Meadows NorCal GS.

BAC and Sierra both are councils within the Far West Ski Association www.fwsa.org/page/page/689671.htm which represents 40,000 skiers and boarders in about 160 clubs in six western states (AZ, NM, CA, NV, OR, WA) with 10 councils. BAC and Sierra are also part of the National Ski Council Federation www.skifederation.org which has 24 councils and 330,000 members.

Jsnoland/Jeff - Welcome to EpicSki. I'm always glad to see folks who are interested in racing. I would be happy to discuss your racing options if you send me a PM at EpicSki with your daytime and evening phone numbers along with the best times to reach you.
post #19 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski03
Apres just put in an 8-person hot tub with stereo system, waterfall and lights this year along with a free high speed wireless WiFi network. Apres also has won the Open League the last 7 years in a row.
I would be happy to discuss your racing options if you send me a PM at EpicSki with your daytime and evening phone numbers along with the best times to reach you.
Oh, sure--let Ski03 tempt you with material possessions (do you really want to risk a hot tub with all that electricity nearby?) and a glamorous club history. But can the Apres ski club people offer you a cool hemet decal like the North Bay SnoWonders? I think not. (Actually, I don't know for sure, but ignorance has never slowed these typing fingers for long, so let's just assume no.)

And frankly, we could use you. Aaron Rosen is blazingly fast, but he does have to (A) show up, and (B) finish the race. We're wacky, we're fun, and I let everybody on the team give their skis a start area hit from my Molecule F spray on high fluoro days. Plus you can stand at the top of the course with my son, my brother and our race director (SnoWonder on this board) analyzing my technique from a safe distance. ("He's going to ski out...no...he's going to crash...no...OOOH! That had to hurt--but he's still up...") It's way more fun than watching Ski03 run a slalom course--he actually looks like he knows what he's doing.

Maybe Ski03 and I should do a ski off at the 3/12 Alpine Meadows GS race for drafting rights....

In any event, good luck this weekend!

SfDean
post #20 of 22
Thread Starter 
Wow - I certainly didn't mean to start a bidding war (particularly since neither of you have actually seen what I have/don't have to offer)...but I would definitely like to join a club for next year. The most important aspects to me are a lodge, an active racing membership, and fun people.

As it turns out, I never made it up this weekend - Friday morning I woke up sick as a dog, and spent the weekend in bed. So I may just make it up this weekend for the Alpine Meadows races, as long as the wife doesn't say otherwise...I'll keep you posted later in the week.

Thanks,
Jeff
post #21 of 22

Warning: Thread Hijack !

Jeff, Dean & Scott,

Greetings to the three of you. I sort of accidentally ran across this thread (and this forum) while searching for something. What a surprise to run across 3 people I know in one thread!
-----------------------------------------------

Jeff,

The preliminary results for the GS Race at Alpine Meadows on Saturday March 12th have been distributed. Your time on the course placed you just at the tail end of the S04OM (Skier - Class 4 - Open - Men) group. In fact, you finished about 2.5 seconds faster than Dean's brother. You were about a second behind me, and almost 2 seconds behind Scott. Dean had a bad day, um, bad weekend, so we won't talk about that.

Scott said that you had a good time at the race. I am glad to hear that. I am the one that "signed you in" for your courtesy run on Saturday, the one with the hat covered with pins. (I wear that hat so that people can recognize me)

I happen to be the Vice Chair for Open League Racing, and the Race Director for Apres Ski Club, so if you have any questions about Open League Racing or any of the other Leagues or Councils, please feel free to ask. The advice that the others have given you are pretty much spot on, but if you ever want to know more, then I am available. (although I don't know how often I will check this forum)

It would be great if you would join us (Open League) for the full season of racing next year. If we aren't what you are looking, then maybe Singles League or Sierra League would fit you better. The main thing is to get you involved and get you out there racing.
-------------------------------------------

Dean,

Howdy. So if I get stickers for helmets for my racers, then you would consider joining Apres? What have you got against electricity and Hot Tubs? It is exhilarating! It really is nice to soak in a nice hot Hot Tub after a tough day of skiing.

Is Jay feeling any better? Are you guys going to Far West or Nor Cals? Just curious. I am really looking forward to the Nor Cals GS on Ridge Run at Alpine. That was a really good run last year; almost as good as Mac-T at Sugar Bowl. I am just keeping my fingers crossed that the snow holds up until then.
-------------------------------------------

Scott,

Just saying hello. I sent an email to Bryan to let him know that he bumped up, but I have not heard from him yet. Hopefully he will be excited. He won't have much competition until he gets older as there aren't very many S02OM racers. We actually have more S02OW.

I will let you (and you can let Jeff) know what I find out tonight about Independents at Nor Cals.

--------------------------------------------

Back to your regularly scheduled Thread.


Wristshot
post #22 of 22
As a "race sponsor" (dad) .... What's the best combination to wear under the suit for the cold days?

Watching them shake waiting for a cape makes me think there has to be a magic combo!
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