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Need adjustments on Tecnica Alu Icons...can they be carving boots?

post #1 of 16
Thread Starter 
Friends, late last season I bought a pair of Alu Icons. They fit very well, and I was used to skiing a stiff boot in my former days. But much of what I have been reading lately suggests that some of my trouble getting the right forward and lateral movemements to tip a turn may be due to the boot's reported rotary inclinations. They do have quite a forward flexion (ramp?). This, combined with their inherent stiffness, makes it hard to put more pressure on the tongue while remaining balanced over the ski. I am not sure why they seem to resist tipping. Some of you surely do. But they do seem to want to be steered rather than tipped. I read on the Tecnica site that their new boots have been weaned away from this tendency. I do not want to give up these boots so early in their life, and would appreciate any suggestions that might make these more inclined to carve. I have read I can remove the rear spoiler which will get me more upright. I am willing to spend some $ to have a boot fitter fiddle with these, if that would do the trick. I have never had any custom work done to them. I am in Maine and do not know of any boot fitters north of Boston. I have corresponded with Gordon Hay in the past. Any other suggestions? Or do I just have to suck it up and spring for a new pair of dogs (like Monster, Head S12, etc). Or is all of this just another feeble cry for help, and "rotary" and "lateral" are nothing more than "enabling". Thanks as always.
post #2 of 16
i personally think you got to much boot...but i dont know what or where ya ski..i ski at a upper inter/expert level at 230 lbs and i can carve on my icon dp's
post #3 of 16
I carve with with my Explosion 8's and GS 11 Atomic's but the boot is a little too soft in forward flex.

Might want to try working on your technique.
post #4 of 16
I have no problem tipping them on Atomic GS:11. Maybe because once you tip them a certain angle, these skis takes over and will run as if it is on rails. All I do is tip the boots more and more and more, causing me to rip my pants because my inner leg has to be bend upward so much. It almost makes me forget that I could decrease the turing radius by applying forward pressure.

Also, looking at the pivot location, they seem to be symmetrical so that they pivot straight ahead. If you have issues as to where it pivots toward, you can always play with its "Dual Pivot" system so that it pivots in the direction you want.

BTW, this rotary vs lateral thing doesn't make sense, you read different articles about rotary that are frequently completely in opposite of each other.
post #5 of 16
I have the Icon Alu Comps. Even before Bud "modified" them, I was able to carve using them. Since they have been moded, they're great!
(ask any of Nolo's group from the ESA)
I think maybe one thing that might help would be for an instructor to ski with you - they may be able to give you tips on your technique.
post #6 of 16
Thread Starter 
WTFH, what kind of mods did you have done, why, what did it do, and who done the deed? Did you try any "mods" on your own first, like removing the spoilers, etc?

And da-bum, tell me more about the Dual Pivot thing. What adjustments have you done to the boots on your own?
post #7 of 16
Spoilers are still there. I do the strap up inside the shell. I adjusted the dual pivot to get the cuffs lined up properly with my legs.

Then, at the ESA this year, Bud Heismann skiied with our group (as he did with all the groups) After that, he took an angle grinder to the bottom of the cuff at the front, and removed a few mm. This allows my boots to flex more, so I can drive further forward when required.
post #8 of 16
I find no specific problem with getting a ski to carve using these boots. I am begining to think that the rotary action of the shaft of the boot is beneficial.

I did some minor modifications to mine for several reasons specific to me. I did remove both the spoilers and the little black tabs on the inside of the cuff and ski with the boots adjustment(s) on full flex.

There is quite a bit of information on a previous thread from awhile back.
http://forums.Epicski.com/showthread.php?s=4ab8211fd28f6fc0442dafbef451078&t =20718

I also lowered the heel a bit in each boot by grinding. (Slightly)
Raised the arch a bit, and ground the edge of the heel pocket (both due to my specific foot)

I would not "toss them on the fire" if they fit . I think it is an excellent boot if you have a "Tecnica" foot.
post #9 of 16
Thread Starter 
WTFH, thanks for the suggestions. I already do the strap inside the shell. What is the process for adjusting the cuff with the dp function for alignment? What does that do?Did you discern a benefit from the added flex after the lower cuff was ground? That added flex is something I am looking for. I am thinking that if I remove the spoiler and lower the foot bed at the heel (if that can be done - I do not rememeber), it will get me more upright. Then using the strap inside will connect me to the cuff in a more neutral stance. And then with a little trim like Bud did for you (if necessary), I would be able to engage the boot sooner, and with more drive. Does that approach make sense, or should I just go fitter and be done with it? Is this the kind of work Gordon Hay does - he's about the closest guy to me (some four hrs away).
And Uncle Louis, thanks for the thread link. I have no intention of tossing the Icons. I must have a Tecnica foot, because they fit me like a glove. But the very fact that they have integrated adjustment features confirms that the tune is the thing. I would like to try. Is it possible to eye ball whether you have a cant issue and what kind of adjustment would be right? Or is that a measurement that has to be made by a fitter? Thanks as always.
post #10 of 16
Ok: lets toss some terms around
Lateral Boot: aka plug, thin liner, racy, low vol. stiff
Rotary: everything else
The debate : stupid
I use a Dobie to race & a Icon to all-mtn.
Both are fit well /modified a ton

Dobie: 10 mm lifter kit , heel, metatarsal, & 6th toe grinds, custom liner/tongue
Icon: grinds, padded tongue & front liner, post V-cut to soften flex for off trail use, ankle pads

Most important is that the boot fits & that you can pressure the front of the boot. The Icon is more forgiving & handles crud/bumps better. Yet, as long as the boots are snug & you can pressure the front w/ ease: you can carve & get the skis up on egde well. I have a mens size 9 & ski in a size 5 Dobie & 6 Icon Comp. Both are v. comfy b/c the shells are ground to fit my feet & the liners are padded where needed. Go to a good boot fitter & get some padding foam & start playing. The fit, not the type of boot will help.
post #11 of 16
Thread Starter 
Good plan. Thanks.
post #12 of 16
Dual pivot allows you to adjust the axis alignment so that the boot would flex inward or outward, in addition to flexing straight. That is on top of adjusting the alignment of the cuff for bow-legged or knocked-knee people. Usually, they would be adjusted in conjunction with each other, but you experiment with the flexing alignment without disrupting the other.

To make the boot flex outward, unscrew the boot's outer pivot point bolt (the buckle's side), which should by default be at the hole toward the front of the boot, and screw that bolt into the rear hole after the cap on it is removed.

To make the boot flex inward, you would do the above procedure only for the pivot on the inner side of the boot.

To make you boot even stiffer, use the extra screws that came with your boots and screw it into all 4 holes of pivot. This effectively makes the boot non-flexing.

To make the boot softer flexing, move both bolts to the holes toward the rear of the boot. This would not allow for adjustment of the flex inward or outward though.
post #13 of 16
Thread Starter 
da-bum, thanks for the tutorial. I will give that a go. Actually, last night, I took off the rear spoiler and the black interior clips. I felt much more centered and upright. For the first time, I was able to stand with just a slight flexion, and my weight was much more evenly weighted over my feet.
Pardon my density, but did you say that there is both an axial adjustment (which directs the boot to flex in or out), as well as a separate adjustment for the "cuff," to accommodate bow/knock? If I am getting this right, is the cuff adjustment essentially a lateral tune, while the axis is a vertical one? If the process you describe adjusts the vertical flex, how do you adjust the cuff. Thanks again.
post #14 of 16
Pardon my density, but did you say that there is both an axial adjustment (which directs the boot to flex in or out), as well as a separate adjustment for the "cuff," to accommodate bow/knock? If I am getting this right, is the cuff adjustment essentially a lateral tune, while the axis is a vertical one? If the process you describe adjusts the vertical flex, how do you adjust the cuff. Thanks again.

You are basically right. that is why they call it in alignment in two dimensions.

The cuff adjustment is done by removing the bolt from one side of the pivot and twisting the football shaped dual pivot plate 180 degrees and screwing the bolt back into the same front/back position. The holes are asymetrically placed on the plate so that when it is rotated 180 deg, it puts the cuff slight higher or lower (depending on the original position) relative to the other side, thereby changing the cuff angle.

Here is a guide on how it is done with a few pictures.


If you don't need to do cuff alignment and you want your have more range in flexing, you could put the rotate the dual pivot plate on both pivots so that there is less space toward the bottom of the plate (like picture 4 in the guide above). This would put the whole cuff slightly higher, allowing the boot to flex more before the bottom of hinged rapid access cuff butts up to the lower boot.

Also, as said above, if you prefer to flex the boot center on, you can put both bolts in the rear of the dual pivot plate. This causes your leg to have a greater mechanical advantage in flexing the boot, making the boot feel more softer.
post #15 of 16
Thread Starter 
da-bum, many thanks. I am going to give that a go.
post #16 of 16
Nice thread. I read through the little pamphlet which came with my Diablos, but couldn't put one and one together. Reading through the various descriptions and following through the pictures on the website really helped. The pictures showing how the rotation axis is skewed slightly by shifting the bolts between position 1 and 2 was a true enlightenment.

When performing the adjustment, it doesn't seem as though it does very much, but made a difference in my case. Adjusting the cuff through the DP snugged my heel into the pocket, which locked the whole foot into place with the footbed.

Thanks folks! Slowly getting my boots dialed in...
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EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Ski Gear Discussion › Need adjustments on Tecnica Alu Icons...can they be carving boots?