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Can I Say Something? (flame away) - Page 2

post #31 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzostrike
while those sayings have lots of mileage, they have no relevance to anything other than being a successful attempt at a clever word sequence.

some of the best active "doers" also teach. some of the best teachers can "do" as well as anyone. such stupid, pseudo-concise faux truths are dumb.
I agree Gonzo, though I do like what Einstein had to say about this, "those who can do, those who understand, teach." Later, RicB.
post #32 of 47
I'm with the analyzer crowd. I'm not an instructor, but spend most of my time going throught the instruction threads. I have been able to take several items described here and make them my own on the hill. For me, little happens if I don't think about it first and understand how it applies to me.
post #33 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by RicB
I agree Gonzo, though I do like what Einstein had to say about this, "those who can do, those who understand, teach." Later, RicB.
much better but even closer to true is

those who can, do (DUH!)

those who can do, and can understand how and why, and can communicate those hows and whys in a variety of understandable, tractable ways, TEACH WELL
post #34 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stache
FISH ON!!!


Or did my bait only catch a bigger bait???
the first problem is using bait and not well tied flies.

meathucker.
post #35 of 47
I believe the saying is: Those who can't do, teach.
Those who can't do or teach, teach P.E.

(I have a degree in P.E. and that was the standard groaner while I was at school.)
post #36 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by delta888
"You? Stop thinking."

sorry, had to laugh at this. with some students, i give them stupid things to do to occupy their brains so they can just ski.
post #37 of 47
delta888, I'm an engineer. Guess what, I over think every aspect of my skiing. Like you I can't shut off my mind when I ski. So, I try to occupy it with singing, counting, or feeling what my body is doing.

When I have a over thinker as a student, I use the follow me and stay in my tracks technique. Also, you lead, I'll follow right in your tracks, don't let me catch you. This gets them to think about other things besides what they are doing.

If anyone else has some good ideas to help people with this, it would be appreciated.
post #38 of 47
T-square .... I use the technique we use in fencing..... You focus on what you want to do BEFORE you do it... then you need to mentally "set it aside" as you prepare to execute.... so i may focus before setting out by (say) repeating a verbal cue.... but then I quite literally "see" myself putting that aside - like shifting it to the "inactive" part of your work desk....THEN (& only then) do I ski....

It works well - but you do need to be able to REALLY focus your attention where you wish... I gather this requires work .... In fencing we used to play "Jacque Dit" (Simon says) as regular training for focus.... I won regularly - despite being the physically most challenged.... I simply focus better.... In fencing you learn to react on command - but you MUST learn to overcome your reflex responses to be non-predictable.... In playing Simon Says you teach yourself to react (I see it as listen) ONLY after the cue is presented ("simon says") .... I quite literally seemed to "not hear" any command that came without the "simon says" preceeding it.... I almost needed to replay to work out what had happened...

If I am focused enough my body performs as it has been ordered - with me almost "looking on" which seems to leave a LOT more time to react to things as you have more thought available to work on it, as you are not working at the skiing part - only on where you want to be
post #39 of 47
Quote:
Most skiers who follow this advice top out in the PSIA level 6-7 range. Its very difficult to get these folks to drop the defensive habits they have built up and replace them with offensive habits that allow them to break through and really enjoy all snow conditions. 97% of what I teach is changing skiers from defense to offense.
Why do you need to pay an instructor $100+ a lesson to tell you to grow a set of gonads?

I have not taken a lesson since I was 10 yrs old and skiing greens. (I can honestly put myself at 8/9 now) Most if not all of my learning has taken place by watching expert skiiers and pushing my own limits. I see so many people who get stuck in a rut of lesson after lesson- usually all they have to show for it is a slightly prettier turn on the groomers.
post #40 of 47
You need to read Pierre's story about his level when he started instructing (both what he THOUGHT he was & the reality)....
post #41 of 47
Instruction needs to be balanced with practice and assessment (self or other) and sleep (during which the brain creates the pathways to remember new movement patterns. That said, for every competent skier I see, I see 15 or 20 jamming their downhill ski with a stiff leg into a skid with every turn. So, are they having fun? Maybe--but for me, the more I learn, the better I ski and the more fun it is.
post #42 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by nolo
I believe the saying is: Those who can't do, teach.
Those who can't do or teach, teach P.E.

(I have a degree in P.E. and that was the standard groaner while I was at school.)
Sorry nolo, the correct wording officially attributed to G.B.Shaw, in: Maxims for Revolutionists, is
"He who can, does. He who cannot, teaches."
As you can see, the quotation is popular in schools and universities all over the world.
There are a lot of ad-hoc modifications everywhere.
post #43 of 47
I'd rather be skiing but if I can't be skiing, I'll read/write/talk about skiing. I find the instruction forum for practicing movement analysis (particuarly when someone posts a video) and seeing others' analysis and comparing my own. As one aspiring to L2 very soon, I think the practice is great.

On the other hand, I think taking advice on movements you read in this forum and applying it to your skiing can be dangerous with respect to progress you make; you may $#$% up skiing more than help it. Consider the analogy of a Dr. If you weren't feeling well, would you type up a paragraph, email it do your Dr., have him perscibe a drug and have you take it? Sounds like a recipe for disaster.

As pointed out early in this threads, every skier is different. Also there is no 100% correct way to ski for everyone. If you are seeking advice, you really need someone talented there watching you, making suggestions for changes, and then evaluating the effect of those changes on your skiing.
post #44 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by nealric
Why do you need to pay an instructor $100+ a lesson to tell you to grow a set of gonads?

I have not taken a lesson since I was 10 yrs old and skiing greens. (I can honestly put myself at 8/9 now) Most if not all of my learning has taken place by watching expert skiiers and pushing my own limits. I see so many people who get stuck in a rut of lesson after lesson- usually all they have to show for it is a slightly prettier turn on the groomers.
Indeed you are lucky. You are among the few individuals who have progressed to such levels without benefit of coaching. Many, however, are not so fortunate. There are many who are held up because they were not able to impliment what they see from other skiers, or because they do not intrinsically understand what is good skiing and what is less than efficient skiing. For the majority of us, myself including, good coaching is essential to help us overcome ourselves and develop along the right path.

I also see your point in that there are many examples of folks who take lesson after lesson without much progress to show for it. My interpretion differs from yours, however. In the majority of those cases, I am not sure that says anything about the utility of lessons. I might wonder, though, whether these folks might be skiing at all without lessons.

As for gonads, I agree 100% with you. Coaching does not grow gonads for you. YOu either have gonads, or you don't.
post #45 of 47
1) I think there is definitely something to be said about over-analyzing. It may impact some people negatively.

2) Coaching may not give you gonads, but if done properly, it may improve your confidence. When it comes down to it.. isn't that the same thing?

For example. I am hooked on bump skiing, but I wasn't very good at it so I started taking clinics. After taking a few clinics, I got better, but then I was finding that I was 'stuck'. If anything, my performance was going down.

On my last clinic, my instructor (same guy I've been going to for a couple of years) realized:

1) I was overthinking things.
2) I was being defensive and wasn't attacking some things that I had the skill to do. (ie - I had a 'lack of gonads' problem)

To take my mind off things, and to get me to prove to myself that I could ski the steeper quicker lines fairly well, he switched how he was coaching me. Now, instead of 'focus on x on this run', he just had me race him on each run, and do so from wherever I was standing (so I couldn't adjust to the 'easier' line or 'easier' starting spot). I found myself only thinking about skiing down the bumps as fast as I could, and not worried about whether that bump was too big, those two were too tight, or about doing x or y while I skied them.

Bottom line - I found I could ski those hard lines fairly well.

That was a huge breakthrough. Now my confidence is way up, and I am skiing like I never did before and attacking stuff that before I would have been afraid of. All because:

- I stopped thinking so much
- I got more 'gonads' (in the form of confidence)
post #46 of 47
gonads? :-) can we say "balls"?

- some people have more balls than sense

I don't think anyone can formulate the exact balance of technique/skill and balls for "expert skiing".

As for these forums... it works for some and not for others. There is a presumption of knowledge and often folks who are the most knowledgable disseminate information at a lofty level.

People like Bob Barnes and Ric Reiter are popular because they are able to deal with these concepts in plan language. (notice: same initials for first and last name, 3 letter first name, 6 letter last name... pretty neat, uh?)

LisaMarie has quoted Katy Perry here: "It's just skiing, baby". I think that's the best thing an instructor can say when they find a learner over-analyzing/worrying about their skiing too much.

kiersten
post #47 of 47
I think that the point is well taken that one could certainly overanalyze everything and get too caught up in the details to see the big picture - after a certain point we get to the "How many angels can dance on the head of a pin" scenario..... Or maybe in this case it might be "How many snow crystals can contact the razor edge of a ski, taking into account the coefficient of friction and the actual number of water molecules contained therein on an average length run at an ambient temperature of 273 degrees Kelvin?"

On the other hand, as a new skier, I have found all but the most esoteric discussions tremendously helpful. While I may not understand all of it at this point, I still feel like I have gone from "zero to sixty" in the space of four months. Just picking up the terminology, some do's and don'ts, and the "rules of the road" has done me alot of good, and has certainly improved my skiing experience far beyond what it would have been had I not started reading this site.

So Rock on ladies and gents!

Oh, and regarding gonads.... it's not so much the possession of gonads, as the brain to gonad size ratio that counts
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