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lange comp 120 stiffness

post #1 of 17
Thread Starter 
i just got a pair of lange comp 120 fr...
which seems to be a lot stiffer then my previous pair of salomon xwave 8.

my problem is that in the cold around 20F damn things feel really stiff... i have to really loosen my boot buckles to flex them. i hit a bump the other day and my heel almost lifted out of the boot.

if its a warm day...the boots flex is fine... i dont have a problem.

but in the cold i notice it...seems harder to ski...cant seem to get an edge on ice. quads feel more tired then usual.

my question is should

a) soften the boot more... i already removed both the stiffening screws from the boot.

b)deal with it. and hopes it softens up. maybe hit the gym get stronger. what exercises would help flex my boot?

i am 5'10' weight 170, like to ski bumps alot. using rossi b1 170cm other then the problem mentioned above. the boots seem great very responsive.. i seem to skiing the bumps better, thats why i kinda hate to mess with them anymore... but on the other hand i might be a bit dangerous skiing with my boots vey loose?
post #2 of 17
I have 10 days on the same boots. They definitely get stiffer as the temperature drops. Try putting them on in the parking lot when its below zero outside. I'd have better luck trying to bend glass.

I weigh probably 20 lbs more than you & I feel the boots are rather soft (even when cold). I just ordered Booster straps to see if they will help.
post #3 of 17
Booster straps will help you adjust the flex for conditions. They are elastic powerstraps. Pull them up tight on the inside of the shell. If it is cold out you can then adjust the top buckle a little looser and still up tight around the top cuff.

Also, if you have a high instep, the bottom cuff strap may be bottoming out on the instep. I had this problem with my comp 100's and solved by grinding about 1/8th inch of the lower cuff. If the flex isn't progressive this may be the problem. You get some flex by compressing the tongue, but then you stop suddenly. the Booster straps also helped me, though I may go back to the standard strap for spring skiing. LewBob
post #4 of 17
I also own these boots, and totally love 'em (I find them quite flexible - the '05 model).

However, the real issue may be: "do the boots fit?". Remarkably, only 10% of stock boots fit the owner, off the rack - 90% don't. Yet, only 6% of buyers go through a full fitting process (takes at least one or two hrs).

The other 84% either ski in pain or have boots that are too loose to perform.

Note: Installing custom footbeds does NOT equate to a full fitting. Some lesser skilled shops use footbeds as a "cure all". When you only have a hammer, the world looks like nail!

"Not getting an edge" may be a symptom of imbalance (pressure going to side of foot instead of sole). It's possible that you're unbalanced within the boot - not properly aligned.

Some shells suit certain kinds of feet, and it's possible that Lange doesn't suit yours, or the shell may be too stiff. However, before drawing such conclusions, I'd suggest seeing a top tier fitter.
post #5 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Strato
Remarkably, only 10% of stock boots fit the owner, off the rack - 90% don't. Yet, only 6% of buyers go through a full fitting process (takes at least one or two hrs).
The other 84% either ski in pain or have boots that are too loose to perform.
Captain, is there a source of the percentages you quote? I´d like to use them as an argument but I need to know who they come from.
Thanks!
post #6 of 17
Thread Starter 
i did go threw the full fitting process. got the custom footbeds..punched out the hot spots and did the lateral alignment. actually this is the best fitting boot i have ever had.

so what are the trade-offs of softening a boot?

reduced response vs. better comfort and reduced fatigue?

i notice my edgin issues usually my 1st day of skiing when i drive 4hrs to get to the mountain and icey conditions... maybe my legs are a bit sleepy after a long drive.
post #7 of 17
I have the 130s and have skied them in super cold weather. I guess it depends on how well you can flex em. I'm 5'7" and about 10lbs heavier than you, but you should be able to work those boots without problem. I tried the 120s but they felt soft to me.

Can you bend the boots at the ankle? Maybe it's a stance problem more than a stiffness problem.
post #8 of 17
Thread Starter 
what do u guys think of the fwd lean on the boot?

there a bit more aggressive then my old salomons, pushing me into a aggressive stance. seems to make my quads burn a bit more.
post #9 of 17
Check your stance. I bet you're off balance to the rear. Boots won't make your quads burn, but a poor stance will. What kind of skier are you? How long have you been skiing? Do you like to go fast or slow? Where do you ski, east or west?

I have this boot and love it. I used to ski the Lange L-10's (the 130's now) and thought those were way too stiff for me. (I'm 5'7" and 135-140lbs). It's much easier for me to flex the 120s. I tried on both the comp and the Freeride versions. I like the flex pattern of the comp better (which was a surprise, because of what I had read before I tried them on.) If I can flex this boot being 35 lbs lighter than you, you shouldn't have a problem. Something else is up.

Also, if you feel your bump skiing is OK, then the boots aren't too stiff. This is where you would really notice boots that were too stiff. Had you said "I keep breaking over at the waist when I ski bumps", then I would have you explore softening. If you can't get an edge on ice, then most likely your latteral alignment is out, or your skis need a tune. Loosening the buckles isn't going to solve your any "flexing" issues you might have. It will give you the sensation of moving the ankle, but in reality your not transferring any of that movement to the boot itself. I never, NEVER loosen my boots to increase my performance.

Here's what I would do. Most boot fitters will continue to work with you after you done an initial fit. I'd go back to where you have the work done and talk with them again. Tell them what you told us and see what suggestions they have. Most of the time they don't charge for a follow up (or the charge is minimal). Have them check your fore/aft stance and re-check your lateral alignment. This should get your static stance dialed in. I would also think about taking a private ski lesson to have your skiing stance checked. You might be doing things while moving, that you aren't doing while standing still in a ski shop. I'm willing to bet this is the case.

Good luck and let us know how it goes...
Lonnie
post #10 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by checkracer
Captain, is there a source of the percentages you quote? I´d like to use them as an argument but I need to know who they come from.
Thanks!
These are the numbers provided by boot-fitting clinics offered to ski-shop employees. Apparently, the numbers are gleaned from long-term assessements of boots sold, vs boots fitted. Boot fitters I know say these numbers have been consistent for years.

I expect there's a ski-industry publication that publishes these statistics. Perhaps someone else here can provide the details.
post #11 of 17
sk55,

I agree with Captain Strato. I have the '05 120's and at 160# do not find them to be too stiff. In fact, they are quite a bit less stiff than my '05 Lange X9zeros which they replaced. Make sure they are properly fit and then consider the Booster strap. I bought a set of boosters this year just for kicks and really like them. They allow me to keep the top buckle a bit looser yet still maintain a nice even flex.
post #12 of 17
Could this just be a problem of relativity?

Everyone is trying to say that they aren't stiff because they can flex them and the 120's are softer then your older boots.

Coming from an Xwave 8, the 120 will def. be stiffer. It sounds to me like sk55 doesn't ski with as active a technique as everyone who gets forward while carving the 120's. The 120 needs a wee bit of aggression to perform, the Xwave 8 is a more mellow cruiser.

Sk55-It sounds like you just aren't use to the boot. Because its stiffer and requires a harder drive then what you're use to, it might be keeping you in the backseat while carving. This will make it hard to engage the tips making it harder to carve and will make your quads more tired. If you want to get the boot back toward the Xwave a bit then soften it up. It should be skiing a bit stiffer then lewbob's Comp100 right now, so its not like you're going to end up with a noodle. You can always add stiffening screws back in.

If you want to try the boosters, which on my langes were great, then I'll send my pair for cheap (season and a half on them). I bougth some diablos and don't use them anymore. PM for info if interested. This is probably the quicker fix and you can always take them back off.

I bet you also maybe able to get use to the boots. They're different from what you were on before and you'll probably adapt your technique to something that fits your newer equipment.
post #13 of 17
sk55, Go back to my post above. Do you have a high instep? If so, you may have to grind off some of the lower cuff to let the boot flex. Our individual body build and foot shape influence how a boot flexes for us. Do you tighen the power strap snuggly? That will stiffen the boot. That is why several of us mentioned Booster straps, which are elastic, and intended to go inside the cuff. Snug these up ans they will pull you more upright (less foreward lean) let still let the boot flex.

There are lot's of ways to change the flex of the boot. If you bought from a good store, they can help you figure it out. LewBob
post #14 of 17
just a guess, but based on his posts I'd say sk55 is not skiing well and it's not because of the boots, but rather, because he needs some coaching/instruction.

sounds like he's scapegoating the boots when it's a technique issue. boots like the Comp 120 don't cause a loss of edge control.
post #15 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RJP
Could this just be a problem of relativity?

Everyone is trying to say that they aren't stiff because they can flex them and the 120's are softer then your older boots.

Coming from an Xwave 8, the 120 will def. be stiffer. It sounds to me like sk55 doesn't ski with as active a technique as everyone who gets forward while carving the 120's. The 120 needs a wee bit of aggression to perform, the Xwave 8 is a more mellow cruiser.

Sk55-It sounds like you just aren't use to the boot. Because its stiffer and requires a harder drive then what you're use to, it might be keeping you in the backseat while carving. This will make it hard to engage the tips making it harder to carve and will make your quads more tired. If you want to get the boot back toward the Xwave a bit then soften it up. It should be skiing a bit stiffer then lewbob's Comp100 right now, so its not like you're going to end up with a noodle. You can always add stiffening screws back in.

If you want to try the boosters, which on my langes were great, then I'll send my pair for cheap (season and a half on them). I bougth some diablos and don't use them anymore. PM for info if interested. This is probably the quicker fix and you can always take them back off.

I bet you also maybe able to get use to the boots. They're different from what you were on before and you'll probably adapt your technique to something that fits your newer equipment.

RJP,

i think u might be right, i only got 8 days in the boots. new boots and new skis prob need so time to adjust to them. i notice i am in the back seat a bit, i'll have to adjust my technique.


i'll check my alignment and instep when i get back to the mtn.

thanks guys for the speedy response.
post #16 of 17
Not sure if someone mentioned it.. but if the boot feels too stiff at colder temperatures, you can always remove one of the two screws on the back of the boot.. start with the top screw. The guy that sold me the boot said that should reduce the stiffness about 7-8%. He recommended I take that out when it's cold, and put it back in for spring conditions.
post #17 of 17
Mack, He already took out both screws. That's why I suspect that the cuff is bottoming out on the instep. I would also like to know how tight the powerstap is and if he runs it outside or inside the shell. LewBob
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