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Metron B5 Base Bevel

post #1 of 17
Thread Starter 
Having nothing else to do, I decided to check the base bevel of my b5's. I found them very twichy on ice and always tought there must be something wrong with the tune.

The base bevel is at 1 degree but I found the tip and tail to be quite concave, one ski being a little worse than the other. Pretty flat under foot.

What do you suggest? Have them ground flat or use a 2 degree bevel to compensate?

Thanks in advance. :
post #2 of 17
DO NOT GRIND THEM FLAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THE CONCAVITY DOES NOT AFFECT HOW THEY SKI.

Have you sharpened your side edge since you have owned the ski?
post #3 of 17
All Atomics are made with concave tips. This reveals itself beautifully the first time you scrape a wax job with a graphite base-prep.
post #4 of 17
We need a sticky post for Atomic bevels and concavity questions.

post #5 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman
DO NOT GRIND THEM FLAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THE CONCAVITY DOES NOT AFFECT HOW THEY SKI.

Have you sharpened your side edge since you have owned the ski?
Hey Atomicman, no need to yell at me!

No, I have not sharpened the side edge yet. Only used a diamond stone to get a few nicks out and repolish. The side edges are at 3 degrees.

Guy
post #6 of 17
I just really wanted to make it clear, so you didn't ruin your skis.

Read this & this should take care of it. Even diamnod stoning & polishing creates a hanging burr off your side edge.

read my posts on how to get rid of the hanging burr. You won't believe the difference it makes.

http://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?t=21687
post #7 of 17
Thread Starter 
I looked as closely as I could, felt with the fingernail, I could not see a hanging burr. And I know what I was looking for. Checking some skis freshly re-sharpened by a local shop Friday night, the burr was very noticeable.

I did use the stone one the base edge just to be sure.

I guess my skis are fine. I'll just have to concentrate more when I get back on them.

Thanks for the quick reply!
post #8 of 17
You could try a liitle more base bevel in the tip & tail, but I would increase it very slightly a little at time.

2 degrees is way too much. Try just using your 1 degree and go a little heavy on iy in those areas.

Also, TOKO's base beveler works best on Atomics for the 100th time.

http://www.reliableracing.com/winter...&category=2000

It spans the concavity where oters glide sits too low in the middle of it & you get to little bevel in those araes.
post #9 of 17
Wow, I'd like to hear more about why concavity is OK for Atomics in the tip and tail. Was this already discussed before (I'll do a search)? Does this apply to other aggressively shaped skis or is it just an Atomic thing?
post #10 of 17
A-man, good point about the bevelling tool spanning the concavity. Good tools are important, yet understanding how they work are probably much more important. Once observed how a file was clamped onto a side file guide (3 degree) and since the clamp was bending the file, it was way off. Probably more like 0 degree bevel in the end. I am talking about how the file was pressed down into the gap in the guide made to collect shavings.
post #11 of 17
Good point, about proper tools and their use.

I do like SVSt's base beveler, but it & The Beast set their angle off of the foot that slides down the center of the ski at the widest points. Most wide tip & tail skis do have some concavity.

Most diamond stones won't fit in the TOKO tool, but I would rather have light pressure with my diamonds anyway. So I file with the TOKO & diamond & polish with the SVST.
post #12 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noodler
Wow, I'd like to hear more about why concavity is OK for Atomics in the tip and tail. Was this already discussed before (I'll do a search)? Does this apply to other aggressively shaped skis or is it just an Atomic thing?
Atomic even mentions this on their website and tells you "NOT" to grind the concavity out!

Many skis are like this. As long as your base is flat about 1" in from each edge your skis will ski fine, provided your bevels are correct and you have no hanging burr and a competent pilot.

Improper Alignment can also cause grabbiness issues.
post #13 of 17
Metrons may have a base edge at a 0-1 degree in the very tip and tail because of the ski shape and limitations of disc edgers, automatic tuning machines, or a technicians lack of skill

Try using a high grit piece of sandpaper very lightly along the very tip and tail edge to see if that helps ease in and out of a turn.

Don't mess with the bevel unless you have to.
post #14 of 17
Have tried to tune (2) M11s and (2) B5s new. I have not seen any Metrons so far that don't need a base grind!!!!! Mainly the tips, but also the tails are base high enough that a 1 degree base filing with a Toko base guide will not cut the base edge for a proper tune. Atomicman got me on to the Toko base guide and I tuned my S500 Fischers with no problem 1 base and 3 side( Beast pro 3 side guide). Great on ice!!!
Edge grip on ice is something that has been discussed and is suspect with the Metrons. I have skied the B5 and it is a great ski that might be even better if properly tuned. I checked the B5s with a true bar and the bases were flat with very little cup, just higher than the edges. If anyone knows the secret to tuning a B5 with a high base and can get a true 1 and 3 tune on it please let me know!!!
I asked this once before but no one would respond. Is this a Quality Conrol issue???
naht
post #15 of 17
DOn't know, base high is not usually a problem with Atomics although my younger kids S11m Women's World cups and his SL11m's all4 pair aRE BASE HIGH IN THE CENTER OF THE BASE IN DIFFERENT SPOTS. Talked to rep and he was surprised on Race Stock skis. Had seen this on retail models. They seem to ski fine though.

I demo'd 2 pair of Metrons 162 &172 on damn hard snow and they held like crazy. but since they were demo skis maybe they had been ground!
post #16 of 17
Atomicman,
I bought a pair of your SL9s couple of years ago, great skis. When I worked on the Metrons I used a marker on the edges and tried to base file them with the 1 degree Toko guide. Mostly in the tips,but also the tails there were places 6 to 10 inches long the file would not touch the steel edge. These skis need a base grind, right???
I bought the B5 last week but when I got them one ski had very little camber. There was a bad flat spot from the power rod forward on one ski. Sent them back!!
I'm not a world class tuner, not even close but I do know when the tools I'm using are working properly. Your old SL9s and my Fischers work very well on ice when I tune them.
Should be getting my B5 replacements first of the week and will check them carefully. Have you found that the Atomics should be base ground right out of the wrapper or have I just run into some bad ones??
post #17 of 17
Glad to hear the SL9.12's are working well for you.

All of my Aatomics have skiied perfectly right out of the wrapper. I have not ground any of them until they needed a major tune.

Sounds like you got a bad ski!
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