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Add my kid to the list of boarder road kill - Page 3

post #61 of 89
I seem to remember a rule that the uphill skier/boarder needs to watch out for the downhill skier. Or call track to make the downhill skier aware that you are coming through so the downhill skier may yeild the right of way. This makes sense to me, because most of us don't have eyes in the back of our heads. My daughter in learning to ski has been hit several times by uphill skiers/boarders who were borderline out of control. Most of the times this has happened I am within easy calling distance. I try to draw this simple rule to the attention of the person who has made the mistake, 4 times out of 5 the person is not aware of the rule and/or tries to fight me on this.

Its funny that they never try to run into me, but then I'm 6'3" 220lbs and pretty ugly looking.

I remember growing up in the 60's that such rules were always posted. And rule number on was that it is the responsibility of the skier to keep themselves under control and to ski such that potential collisions are avoided to the greatest extent possible. Isn't the definition of the word "control" that one is able to avoid unnecessary falls, accidents or collisions? It also seems to me that most ski areas these days do not do an adequate job of informing people of the rules and the consequences if the rules are not followed. I sure don't see the big signs like I used to. And, as previously mentioned on this thread, that the ski patrol seems to be loathe to enforce the rules because management is afraid of antagonizing customers.

If someone is injured due to a factor which is not a natural hazard or a product of the skier's own negligence, and the ski area does not do an adequate job of providing warnings or enforcing the rules, then they are certainly liable.

And the person who intentionally or negligently hits someone should also be liable.

I think what is called for here is a lawsuit to get the ski areas, and the bombers, to sit up and take notice. If ski areas are hit in the wallet, then you will see some action on getting tickets pulled. Unfortunately, that's the way things tend to go lately.
post #62 of 89
I seem to remember a rule that the uphill skier/boarder needs to watch out for the downhill skier. Or call track to make the downhill skier aware that you are coming through so the downhill skier may yeild the right of way. This makes sense to me, because most of us don't have eyes in the back of our heads. My daughter in learning to ski has been hit several times by uphill skiers/boarders who were borderline out of control. Most of the times this has happened I am within easy calling distance. I try to draw this simple rule to the attention of the person who has made the mistake, 4 times out of 5 the person is not aware of the rule and/or tries to fight me on this.

Its funny that they never try to run into me, but then I'm 6'3" 220lbs and pretty ugly looking.

I remember growing up in the 60's that rules were always posted and rule number on was that it is the responsibility of the uphill skier to keep themselves under control and to ski such that potential collisions are avoided to the greatest extent possible. Isn't the definition of the word "control" that one is able to avoid unnecessary falls, accidents or collisions? It also seems to me that most ski areas these days do not do an adequate job of informing people of the rules and that there will be consequences if the rules are not followed And, as previously mentioned on this thread, that the ski patrol is loathe to enforce the rules because management is afraid of antagonizing customers.

If someone is injured due to a factor which is not a natural hazard or a product of the skier's own negligence, and the ski area does not do an adequate job of providing warnings or enforcing the rules, then they are certainly liable.

And the person who intentionally or negligently hits someone should also be liable.

I think what is called for here is a lawsuit to get the ski areas, and the bombers, to sit up and take notice. If ski areas are hit in the wallet, then you will see some action on getting tickets pulled. Unfortunately, that's the way things tend to go lately.
post #63 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzostrike
as far as I"m concerned, Bob, go right ahead right now. I appreciate your perspective. thanks for seeing the ludicrous nature of SOME of the posts in this thread.

back to the scathe... :
Ahhh, I see Gonzo is training an acolyte in his Academy of Internet Acidity.:

BobMc, I truly don't care how long you've been here, I STILL think you're a troll.... in more ways than one.
post #64 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFRAU
Ahhh, I see Gonzo is training an acolyte in his Academy of Internet Acidity.:

BobMc, I truly don't care how long you've been here, I STILL think you're a troll.... in more ways than one.
A troll in more ways than one? I take it you have a degree from Gonzo's academy.

BobMc
post #65 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFRAU
Ahhh, I see Gonzo is training an acolyte in his Academy of Internet Acidity.:

BobMc, I truly don't care how long you've been here, I STILL think you're a troll.... in more ways than one.
whine whine whine. pabulum seekers unite! we all want a calm, bland, MAYO ON EVERYTHING AFTER 1 cup OF RANCH DRESSING FIRST style of forum.

somebody, please... call the waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaambulance. :
post #66 of 89
hahaahhahahahahahhahahahahhahahahyousofonnyhahahah ahhahahahhaoneforumwithmayocomingrightuphahahahhah ahahhah
post #67 of 89
Skidmo, bummer about your son. It's reckless and there's no excuse for it. I'd have DEMANDED a pulled pass. I would also write a letter because they didn't pull it, but that's your call, and I understand your reasons.

Ranking on any ski patroller is just about the worst thing I can think of, but I think that in this case, Skidmo, a pass should have been pulled, and a letter to the patrol director would be the right thing to do.

While we're on the subject, Everyone wants more ski patrollers, more visible patrollers. Since most Epic folks are Dedicated Skiers, why don't more of you become one? Lock yourself into skiing every Saturday night at one resort, or every Monday night till 10 like Jeff does. You're depended on to be there, can you do that? It takes a certain dedication, and I'll bet you that most of the Epic skiers here are Just Not That Into It.

Give up a day of your free skiing to patrol, if you're sick or well? You have to take classes every year, buy your coat, pay your dues, help injured people, pull passes, break up fights, call cops when people catch gear thieves, stay late to sweep, ski in the rain, 20 below zero, sleet storms, monitor hill sanctioned races, rope off safety areas, write reports....fun, yes?? Would you?

Hey. There are benefits. You ski free anytime. Your family gets to ski free. But it's work, mostly unpaid, and thankless at that. Perhaps that's why there's so few of them.
post #68 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzostrike
whine whine whine. pabulum seekers unite! we all want a calm, bland, MAYO ON EVERYTHING AFTER 1 cup OF RANCH DRESSING FIRST style of forum.

somebody, please... call the waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaambulance. :
Actually, I think someone needs to call for an emergency maturity transfusion
post #69 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFRAU
Actually, I think someone needs to call for an emergency maturity transfusion
yes that's right. you need to find yours. pretending to be mature while acting puritanical and paternal w/o substance or experience to warrant such attitudes seems quite a bit more immature than merely disliking phoniness.

but that's probable the whole problem right there, isn't it? you don't like the kinds of comedy that I value, so therefore it sucks. brilliant. your high a(na)esthetic standards are commendable. :
post #70 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzostrike
yes that's right. you need to find yours. pretending to be mature while acting puritanical and paternal w/o substance or experience to warrant such attitudes seems quite a bit more immature than merely disliking phoniness.

but that's probable the whole problem right there, isn't it? you don't like the kinds of comedy that I value, so therefore it sucks. brilliant. your high a(na)esthetic standards are commendable. :
Actually Gonzo as a mother of three - including two adolescents - I am QUITE experienced in dealing with immaturity in those around me. Adolescents typically use insults and shock-value statements when they are bored and want attention. They also use it to hide their feelings of inadequacy.

I have had my say, so let's not clutter up your valued bandwidth with this p*ssing match. If you have more to say to me you can do it in PM.:
post #71 of 89
One thing skiers can do to prevent inadvertent collisions with boarders is to be aware of the inherent blind spot boarders have on the heel side. I am talking here about responsible riders not the irresponsible idiots out there. I learned this early on when my wife was first learning how to board and I almost collided with her because I did not realize she could not see me. It is just another part of being courteous on the slopes. Just because some boarders are jerks it is no reason to treat them all with disrespect. If we don't want another generation of Young Dumb Jerks than you better teach your kids respect also. Sunday at Winter Park my friend who is close to 40 and I were waiting for his wife near a lift tower away from the main flow of traffic. He was sitting on the ground and I was standing. Some jerk on skis went out of his way to ski within a foot or two of him I presume just because he was a boarder. At some point most of you are going to have friends or relatives who ski, board, teleski, or find some other way to slide down a mountain and you are not going to want to have them treated the way some in this thread have suggested.
post #72 of 89
Here is the crux. Respect from and for all snowriders. Thank you rcahill.
post #73 of 89

whtmt

First I would like to say that I'm very glad to hear your son is doing well considering the hit he took. Like you it worries and bothers me continuously when I ski with my 4-year old granddaughter. I'm always on the lookout, but since I typically ski backwards in front of her there's not much I could do at that moment. Once she becomes more independent then I plan to follow Physics Man's approach from behind.

I also have some bad news to report, which occured last Saturday at Loon Mt. NH. One of our coaches was stopped on the side of a trail and was run down by a boarder. He was hit in the head and right wrist, which appeared to result in a skier's thumb injury. He never saw him coming. To make things even worse this coach is deaf, so it was like he got run over by a train. He's the nicest guy and an alpine Level II in training for his Level III skiing in late March. Based on the wrist / thumb injury it's questionable whether he can attend or not. I've had the same injury twice and I know that there would have been no way I could have taken my Level III skiing exam with my cast on.

whtmt & Mackenzie 911
post #74 of 89
My 7-yr-old daughter was hit in a ski club class on Saturday at Copper. And yes, by a boarder. A boarder also took out 4 kids in her cousin's class of advanced beginners. Luckily the guy who hit my daughter saw what he was about to do and fell first, absorbing some of his momentum. But she is still bruised, cut on the face, and (most horrifying to her ) her pants are torn. I'm hoping that the pants are the longest-lasting trauma ....
post #75 of 89
I'm really confused as to why there's any misunderstanding regarding responsibility for this accident. Just as viking_kaj stated - It's the responsibility of the uphill skier/rider to remain in control and be able to avoid any skiers/riders that are downhill of them. If the path below is obstructed or cannot be seen clearly then you must slow down and proceed with caution or have someone else spot the area for you. Case closed.
post #76 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFRAU
Actually Gonzo as a mother of three - including two adolescents - I am QUITE experienced in dealing with immaturity in those around me. Adolescents typically use insults and shock-value statements when they are bored and want attention. They also use it to hide their feelings of inadequacy.

I have had my say, so let's not clutter up your valued bandwidth with this p*ssing match. If you have more to say to me you can do it in PM.:
ummm... the experience I referenced is being MY parent. ahem. I have no clue as to whose parent you are other than to know you're not mine. the closest anyone comes to my parent in here is Ott and that's because I respect him and he's ALWAYS kind to everyone.

blah blah blah with your logical excuses and backpedaling. to quote In Living Color,

"you're not the boss of me!"
post #77 of 89
Those of you on the code talking about the "downhill skier" thing, check again. In some places and perhaps everywhere the code now states you are responsible for the person AHEAD of you ---no longer DOWNHILL of you.
post #78 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcahill
One thing skiers can do to prevent inadvertent collisions with boarders is to be aware of the inherent blind spot boarders have on the heel side.
That's true, if your doing the passing. But back side or front side it's your responsibility to miss him/her when you're going by.

Personally I think this whole blindside BS is an over used excuse for boarders who run people down from behind. Sure, if a boarder is being passed he has a blind side. But, if he or she is coming down the slope and then turns into someone on their backside, then I don't want to hear that BS. They weren't in the "blind spot" when they were approaching from behind, so they should be aware of the the other riders presence on their back side when they're going by.
post #79 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Louie
Those of you on the code talking about the "downhill skier" thing, check again. In some places and perhaps everywhere the code now states you are responsible for the person AHEAD of you ---no longer DOWNHILL of you.
Maybe I'm missing something, but if I'm coming down a run and someone's "ahead" of me, won't they be downhill? And if they're "downhill" won't they be ahead of me?
post #80 of 89
Sorry to hear about the incident with your son, Skidmo. I do hope his recovery is fully completed; both physically and emotionally.

This matter of negligence does need to be moved to the greater intents covered by existing laws. It is the fault of every one of us who lets these rude intentional behaviors go unchallenged. The legal system has plenty of remedies for such intentional abuse(whether by direct intention or indirect intention), and these people will stop their affronts only after they have to deal with lasting penalties for their actions. Recklessness that results in injury to others is not acceptable in other public venues, and I fail to understand why it is tolerated with the skiing public.

I don't like making a scene any more than the rest of you, but if I had children whose well being were at stake, I would push each incident to the nth degree in an effort to protect them. ....I haven't had these situations happen to me, and it's probably because I don't present myself as the right kind of victim for their antics.

As far as making life harder on the working stiffs at the resorts, that is part of the job. If they don't like the oversight aspect of mountain patrol, they need to go elsewhere, and the mountain can find someone else willing to protect the welfare of small innocents, as well as powder hounds!
post #81 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by feallen
....I don't like making a scene any more than the rest of you, but if I had children whose well being were at stake, I would push each incident to the nth degree in an effort to protect them. ....I haven't had these situations happen to me, and it's probably because I don't present myself as the right kind of victim for their antics.

As far as making life harder on the working stiffs at the resorts, that is part of the job. If they don't like the oversight aspect of mountain patrol, they need to go elsewhere, and the mountain can find someone else willing to protect the welfare of small innocents, as well as powder hounds!
I think patrol does an okay job with what they have to work with. But they aren't everywhere, all the time. I don't know of instances where they actually ignore this kind of thing. To me, it's just the impossibility of doing it all.

When my daughter was hit, she was with a ski teacher, who was very very upset about it, but couldn't do anything. For one thing, she had no jurisdiction. For another, she had other kids in the class that she couldn't leave. For another, she is a young woman, the boarder was a teenage guy. You do the math. And my daughter's parents were in Wyoming at the time, so we couldn't do anything, either.

The only thing I see that you can do right now is a heightened presence of some sort of patrol on the slopes along with some citizen help. If you see an old lady get her purse snatched, go help. A few years ago, a boarder smashed into a group of us, knocking one unconscious and breaking his collarbone. While my husband ran up the hill to the emergency phone, another one of the group (who was an Olympic downhiller, no joke) chased down and collared the offender, who had fled the scene. Unfortunately, you're not always in a group of men and/or fast skiers who can do that. So hopefully the gentlemen out there will help, just like you'd help out the old lady who got her purse snatched. Or not.
post #82 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Louie
Those of you on the code talking about the "downhill skier" thing, check again. In some places and perhaps everywhere the code now states you are responsible for the person AHEAD of you ---no longer DOWNHILL of you.
"Downhill" and "ahead" mean the same thing except if you are actually travelling uphill ... which you can do, but not for very long.

"Ahead" refers to the direction of travel, not the direction you're facing. A person skiing backwards isn't supposed to run into people ... just like a person driving a car in reverse is supposed to be paying attention to what he's approaching behind him, not what's out his windshield.
post #83 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by skidmo
I will admit to looking at the tip of my ski pole and finding it particularly attractive at a certain point in time.
You said no other witnesses? Instruct your son to look away for a minute and stab away!! Boarder "fell" into your pole during the collision. Very unfortunate. Sorry for getting blood on your trail.

In all seriousness, glad your son is OK and still wants to get out there and ski.
post #84 of 89
I am going to vote with my wallet and continue to spend more of my money and time in areas that don't allow boarders. I enjoy skiing Alta, Taos, and Deer Valley and while I know there are some reckless skiers I have far less trouble with them than boarders.
post #85 of 89
You know what occurred to me while reading this? The hitting almost always happens on green trails. I have friends who have been hit by snowboarders. Above and beyond getting hurt - there is another outcome: learners become frightened which is totally detrimental to learning any snowsport.

I got hit this weekend while casually doing RR tracks down a gentle green slope back to the base lodge. It was a guy - my guess 19-22 was his age. I was ahead of him but just as I turned I heard the "snowboarder braking" noise - a bit too close - and then I felt his hands in the middle of my back. I'm not very big (5'2, average size) but I am strong... I went right into a snowplow. Snow sprayed up off the tips of my skis into my face, but I didn't fall. He veered off to the side as I stopped. I took right off after him and easily caught him. I gave him some crap to no avail. I idly considered grabbing his paper ticket and then realized he'd probably hit me or something. I looked around for any mountain employee and saw none.

I had to explain to this guy that on the snow you're responsible for EVERYONE ahead of you (including people off to the side) no matter what they do or how they ski. He didn't quite "get it".

It's crazy.
post #86 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by klkaye
You know what occurred to me while reading this? The hitting almost always happens on green trails. ....
Which is exactly why I keep my kids off of them as much as possible. But part of keeping them on the harder stuff involves having them learn to ski properly, which involves lessons, which involve green runs.

I never really understood the need for a helmet before I had kids, although I made sure my kids wore them. But as soon as I started skiing in places other than black runs/bumps/bowls (I don't jump off cliffs), I understood exactly why you need helmets.
post #87 of 89
Most frustrating to me (as one who depends on participants in this great sport to fund his own endeavors in it) is telling the person cutting my hair or waiting on me in a restaurant that I am a ski Instructor and they say "I tried it once but I was so afraid of being hit by one of those crazies that I would never go back."

: AAARRRGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!
post #88 of 89

Near Miss

4 years ago I was skiing at a local area with my son (40) and my grandson (6 at the time). We were standing on the side of a green trail while I was giving him some instruction.

Out of nowhere 2 teenaged skiers (about 16) skied between us at high speed and out of control. There was only about 3 feet between us and it scared us both. I left my grandson with his dad and caught up with the kids at the lift. I gave them a piece of my mind and suggested that they take lessons. I did not swear but was tempted.

A few minutes later the father approached me and threatened me for yelling at his kids. I almost lost it and my son stepped in and had some interesting words with the gentleman. As a law officer he could not touch him but he did explain how there would have been at least a misdemeanor involved or even a felony charge if his kids had hurt someone.

Point #1: both skiers and riders can be irresponsible.

Point #2: what is wrong with parents who condone and defend truly dangerous behavior from their kids? Responsible behavior will not happen all by itself in kids.

By the way, we were also standing within a few feet of a "slow skiing zone" sign.
post #89 of 89
Last year at sunshine I was skiing third back in a line of three with about good distance between us...

we were on the bottom of sunshine coast where the steeper trails merge together.....


saw my youngest a bean pole skinny 13 year old nearly get clipped by an out of control boarder (maybe 18 yrs old or so... )

the boarder then stops and starts getting into my sons face about how he is going to kick his a$$.

at this time my 19 year old skis up: ((6'2" 190)) and asks if there is a problem...

by then dear old dad 6'1" 220 (me) stops as well

the boarder does the math: .... and pushes off...... which I am sure was best for all involved.

the wierd thing was it was his fault to begin with.....that said....most of the boarders I meet are OK by me they just speak another language
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