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Good drivers make good skiers - Page 3

post #61 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by skiingman
Wait, y'all are actually advocating making turns so round as to lead uphill?
Yep! As Bob Barnes said in a clinic recently: you have to be going slow enough that you want to go faster before you begin your next turn.
post #62 of 76
Sorry dski, didn't know it was yours.

these darn new slalom skis are loads of fun aren't they? I actually carved my first 360 last week at ESA, with katie as my witness. That was cool!
post #63 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by bud heishman
these darn new slalom skis are loads of fun aren't they? I actually carved my first 360 last week at ESA, with katie as my witness. That was cool!
Glad you have finally experienced this, but at the same time, welcome to 2000.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssh
Yep! As Bob Barnes said in a clinic recently: you have to be going slow enough that you want to go faster before you begin your next turn.
That is not a safe way to get down the hill. Useful drill I am sure, but not a safe way to ski in general.
post #64 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by bud heishman
Sorry dski, didn't know it was yours.

these darn new slalom skis are loads of fun aren't they? I actually carved my first 360 last week at ESA, with katie as my witness. That was cool!
It is all cool Bud - nice to see someone read what I typed....

I saw the turns as jigsaw puzzle pieces & have since found that some people really have no idea what the cliche "finish the turn" means.... but nearly always they understand a jigsaw puzzle piece.... they do seem to struggle to see how it will ski.... but if you can tell them & the instructor skis that shape & they follow the instructor they feel it...& understand it too....
post #65 of 76
Skiingman

The Killington 500 is from Troy, NY to Rutland rt7 then rt4.

and for all you coctail coasters - not allowed any more - judges orders!
post #66 of 76
Thread Starter 
disski, the jigsaw puzzle turn shape is great visual to get people to see that there are many ways to draw an S. I've been using that image for years, and I'm sure that the first time it occurred to me that the controlled track I was making in the bumps was jigsaw puzzle like, it was something of an epiphany. But the same epiphany can occur spontaneously to many people. It's there for the taking.

I say this with great respect for your many original contributions.
post #67 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by bud heishman
Sorry dski, didn't know it was yours.

these darn new slalom skis are loads of fun aren't they? I actually carved my first 360 last week at ESA, with katie as my witness. That was cool!
I call it the perverse traverse. I've been doing it for about 2 years now. It started when I was skiing with friends and was messing with them. Should of seen their faces when I was going uphill and they were going down.: Just this weekend one of my ski pals said to me,"If you want to know where the fish is swimming watch it's head." They seem to think I have a very unusual ski/fall line. I've noticed if I ski around Carvers they are predictable but skidders are not.:
post #68 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by nolo
disski, the jigsaw puzzle turn shape is great visual to get people to see that there are many ways to draw an S. I've been using that image for years, and I'm sure that the first time it occurred to me that the controlled track I was making in the bumps was jigsaw puzzle like, it was something of an epiphany. But the same epiphany can occur spontaneously to many people. It's there for the taking.

I say this with great respect for your many original contributions.
agreed Nolo ....

but I'm pretty sure bud was in on one of these discussions not long ago when I mentioned it as a jigsaw puzzle piece... so I was stirring him.... see the after the original comment?
post #69 of 76
I just used Nolo's driving analogy last night and it worked like a charm. Now I'm going to have to use disski's puzzle pieces. I like em both. Thanks guys, this forum is great for swapping ideas.

Last weekend I carved a turn from one slope up another at the intersection. (I looked first and did it safely.) Sort of a start of the 360 thing, which in itself is a blast. I had enough speed to really take it a ways up the slope. Anyway, the skiier following me was wondering where this "new" trail came from I was leading her on. And the looks on the skiiers coming down the trail were interesting. : Add to that the horns on my helmet and they really don't know quite what to think. All I say is its that new sport, uphill skiing.

Now, in this case, who has the right of way? Not something normally covered in the code is it.
post #70 of 76
The uphill skier still has to avoid you as you ski up the hill. Sort of a Helm's a Lee rule.
post #71 of 76
Quote:
Yep! As Bob Barnes said in a clinic recently: you have to be going slow enough that you want to go faster before you begin your next turn
Quote:
Originally Posted by skiingman
That is not a safe way to get down the hill. Useful drill I am sure, but not a safe way to ski in general.
I'm curious, skiingman. Why do you say that Barnes' philosophy is "not a safe way to ski in general?". I honestly try to ski like that all the time. The alternatives to me seem to be two:
1) Keep going faster as you work your way down the hill because you haven't held onto the last turn long enough to slow down to the speed you want.

2) Turn in a method that is essentially defensive skiing which gives me at least less control over my line.
post #72 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinF
The alternatives to me seem to be two:
1) Keep going faster as you work your way down the hill because you haven't held onto the last turn long enough to slow down to the speed you want.
Watch a WC GS race. Note that no one makes 100 percent clean turns throughout the course. Heck, Bode readily skids more in one direction than the other as a matter of strategy.
Quote:
2) Turn in a method that is essentially defensive skiing which gives me at least less control over my line.
I doubt that anyone would characterize the above skiers as skiing defensively. Like it or not, they do exhibit forms of speed control in the technical events. The perfect run without some form of speed control doesn't happen on world class hills. It does happen on my local groomer hill.

The idea that one has less control over their line while their edges are not cleanly engaged is a fallacy. Unless we all had unlimited quad strength and impossibly shaped skis, some turns are not possible to make in a clean energy efficient arc.

While I would generally agree that the bottom half of a turn should be clean and well engaged for a variety of reasons, I'd heartily disagree that the top should be as well. Before the apex of the turn I think there is a lot of room to play around with the line and your kinetic energy.

This is not 1997. You do not have to make railroad tracks down the whole hill. As a matter of fact, doing so is often a sign of an inexperienced skier without a full bag of tricks.

Again, skiing in a jigsaw type line may be an effective way to learn how to control speed through choice of line, and an effective way to learn how to ski fallaways efficiently, but it isn't safe. Heading across the hill to the point of heading uphill is not safe. You wouldn't control your speed on a busy wide road by making a jigsaw shaped line down the hill. It is only a bit more viable on skis. I think it is fair to assume that skiers will be generally either moving downhill or stopped. Its a big risk to ski in such an unconventional line and assume that others will realize what you are doing and ski accordingly. You are putting your safety (as well as theirs) in their hands.

I've taken to looking uphill over my shoulder everytime I make a turn that leads unusually far across the hill. While this removes some risk, its also a great way to end up with all sorts of technical issues from turning your head the wrong way.

On most of your groomed terrain, none of this is relevant anyhow. I'd say you need a solid mid twenty degree pitch before speed control becomes an issue.

If people are making these kind of turns on terrain steeper than this, it is no wonder that its getting harder and harder to find good bumps.
post #73 of 76
We were doin 360's 10 years ago with the SCX 163 .

Auto-xing is where your everyday skills will get exposed then refined. Everyone should do it, you will learn tons

Just went through the Killington 500, seeing people do some wacky (see: stupid) passing rituals had the hair ont he back of my neck stand up.
post #74 of 76
Sorry for gushing, This is my first pair of shaped slalom skis which made the 360 possible.

The jigsaw puzzle turns....I don't care what anybody says about this type of turn not being safe. One using a little common sense would not probably ski like this on a crowded weekend day but midweek at Big Sky....come on?!!

This type of turn is the epitomy of a "Go" turn. The ultimate efficient gliding turn. The sweet blend of momentum and edges and precise balancing movements. Carrying speed down the hill is not the goal...carrying forward momentum around the arc is!
post #75 of 76
Yeah - gotta love the feeling....
post #76 of 76
Went to Gore on Thursday, day of the storm. Made the corner into the parking lot road and crahed into the sign. The car was buried and the snow acted as padding. Cranked it up and rocked it out - and kept my head down! Must have been going a little too fast even for a road warrior.

First time ever at Gore. Powder day and fun. That's enough of gore for me.
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