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Ingemar Stenmark! - Page 3

post #61 of 72
Sounds fat to me. Wouldn't a 66mm waist put it among the widest GS skis? I see now why they skied so different despite having same sidecut. I always thought they were both out of the same mold! (I never tried either.) Oh well wrong again!

Thanks, Gaper Rod
post #62 of 72
"Crossblock," may be a misnomer (I guess), but it seems to be accepted terminology for blocking the gate with the outside hand. I don't know that it's really such a misnomer: true, the hand doesn't cross the body's midline, but the whole upper part of the person crosses to the other side (inside) of the pole. When you hit it, you're pushing it down across your body vs. pushing it out of the way so you can go around it. If the hand were the "cross" referred to, then Girardelli often crossblocked with his inside hand.

WC skiers often block slalom gates in flushes with the inside arm -- the turn is so slight their body doesn't incline much, if at all.

Until shaped skis, racing ski sidecuts didn't vary a ton. They actually were -- so far as I can tell -- wider in the '60s. Particularly DH skis. They thinned down a bit by the '80s and '90s. Race stock / WC skis might have run slimmer, since there were a few occasions when people were disqualified for illegally thin skis.

Rossignol 7GK c. 1991 ~ 85 65 74 (my measurement)
Kneissl M1 White Star c. 1998 ~ 85 65 74 (someone else's)
K2 710 c. 1976 ~ 84 65 75 (mine)
post #63 of 72
I have slalom(!) skis 66 and 69(!) at the waist. KVC and VR27. The VR17 Géant looks about 69 too. I guess I could have measured before posting more wrong assumptions! I guess Elan was ahead of the game with the 60mm waist on the SL model. I'm probably wrong though.

You can't prove me wrong about Stenmark though. If he trained hard... It would not be Stenmark to do such a thing, to train hard to maybe score a point, so no he can't do it in that sense. He would only try if he thought he could win and if that happened he would be as misguided as Bill Johnson in thinking it. Even if he did think it (which he could not) he would most probably not choose to dedicate his time to training and racing at this point in his life. His record for most wins stands. He's still the best until some one wins more.
post #64 of 72
I read a report in a magazine that the 05 had a 60mm waist. I don't have one to measure. Elan was always billed as the deepest sidecut in those days.

I can't think of any coaches that I know of who call it "crossblocking". I've never heard that term used at any coaches education clinics either. It implies that ugly reaching move that kids make.
Mike ask Sparky.
post #65 of 72
I brought up the subject of "crossblocking" in this thread. I was trying to say outside clear. Thanks SLATZ for clearing that up.

Gaper Rod
post #66 of 72
Originally Posted by SLATZ
I can't think of any coaches that I know of who call it "crossblocking". I've never heard that term used at any coaches education clinics either. It implies that ugly reaching move that kids make.
Mike ask Sparky.
Yeah, it's an ugly term. However, the term was used more frequently during the first years of outside-arm gate clearing. These days, I use the term more out of habit than of reality.
post #67 of 72
In my experience, it's almost never called an "outside hand clear" or anything like that ... it's called "cross-blocking," and that's what it's called whether it's done well or (perhaps more often) not well.

Originally Posted by Wikipedia
In cross-blocking, the racer's feet get sufficiently close to the pole that, due to inward lean, the racer's entire upper body would actually pass through the pole if it were not moved out of the way. Thus they hit the pole with their outside hand to move it out of the way --- modern poles are designed to easily bend.
Originally Posted by Sarah Schleper
I even did push-ups when I was younger, to help me when cross blocking in slalom. You could call that kind of aggression a serious addiction to plastic, but it went beyond that.
Which technique is faster, the cross-block (i.e., clearing the gate with the outside arm) or the inside clear (i.e., clearing the gate with the inside arm)?
Also includes a discussion of when cross-blocking is good and bad, and a photo of of Girardelli reaching way across his body to do an inside clear, which is not a cross block.

Originally Posted by Richard Malmros, Rocky Mountain Masters Columnist
The winner in the Best Clark Kent Imitation category is…Chuck Webb, mild-mannered banking industry V. P. Monday through Friday, cross-blocking fool and member of the killer elite on weekends.
Originally Posted by Coaches Corner advice, International Racing training program website
Marc Giradelli in the 1989 Slalom World Alpine Ski Championships winning with an inside clear technique when all other racers were cross-blocking
Whatever its exact etymology is, I don't see why it's not descriptive of a proper "cross block" like the World Cup racers do.

It doesn't refer to the hand crossing the body (if it did, a lot if inside hand blocks are "cross blocks"), but to the gate pole crossing the body (or the body crossing the pole, which is the same thing from the pole's point of view). In GS, if you hit a gate, you push it out of your way with the inside hand. In slalom, you (often) knock it down with your outside hand, so it falls right in front of you ... across your body, your skis and the path you are traveling. (Of course, that doesn't cause a problem because once the elastic in the joint is stretched out, the gate just swings out of the way as it hits your boots, shins or whatever.)
post #68 of 72
I haven't heard Sparky spend much time talking about crossblocking, and when he does he's usually referring to someone reaching for the block instead of using the appropriate hand given the relative position of the body to the gate. I have heard him talk a little about inside and outside hand clears, which I agree are a more positive mental image.

I've heard stories of Stenmark losing both edges in a turn and lightly tapping his fist on the snow to regain balance- much like Bode. The man had amazing skill and incredible balance. If he were in his prime and modernized his technique a bit, he would surely be a contender today. However, at his age he wouldn't stand a chance at scoring World Cup points. Most racers are retiring at 34 or 35, citing the stresses of the training regime on their bodies. Add in a couple injuries and their bodies start to go downhill fast. Even Michael von Grünigen retired after a remarkably injury-free career around that age. The window where mental and physical abilities are at their peak is extremely small.
post #69 of 72
Didn't mean to "hijack" this thread. Sorry
I think Stenmark was the best ever. There's not likely to be another.
post #70 of 72
Wait, I'm the hijacker. You were my hostage. Stockholm syndrome? Slatz, your contributions to this thread have been great. Talking about the skis or techniques Stenmark used is right on topic.

I guess you could use either term and be understood by anyone who knows what you are talking about.
post #71 of 72

The hair often goes, but the rest doesn't have to...



Poster boy for staying fit - 60 is the new 30!   ;)



Some nice footage here...




And this clip's chock full of goodies - Stenmark's runs at 4:20, 7:05 and 9:05...



Edited by jc-ski - 12/12/14 at 2:41pm
post #72 of 72
Interesting read. He does not train in the gym at all he says, mountain biking and roller skiing every other day. Apparently cross country skis too. My Swedish is a bit rusty. Also says he is very strong mentally.
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