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Hidden gems and trail maps

post #1 of 69
Thread Starter 
So this year Killington put almost all of the hidden local stashes on the trail map and gave them names. In some instances I see this as valid. For example paradise became such a legendary trail and everyone would come to ski it and not be able to find it at MRG, so they put it on the map. They however did not put every little tiny tree stash that people love and learn after years of skiing a mountain. Is Killington out of line here or is it just me?

Alfonse
post #2 of 69
That's way out of line....did they cut those trails??? prob not. It is thier Mtn, but exposing all the good stuff for a cheap marketing scheme seems low brow. I cant imagine if they did this at places like Stowe or Jay...it would ruin my experience. This is the first time I heard that...thats too bad.
post #3 of 69
Hmmm, "The Throne". Guess they didn't want to put "The Toilet Bowl" on their trailmap. Best I know, it was always called the TB. That's why when they cut a trail in the area was named "Royal Flush".

Nay, I don't think that stuff should be on the map but who can read the Kmart map anyway? At least they don't put signs up, do they?
post #4 of 69
not "hidden" or "stash" any more.

how stupid. how corporate. how profit-driven. forget the skiers that use the hill, think only about the POTENTIAL skiers.

hogwash.
post #5 of 69
There are places that should remain "hidden" or at least semi hidden. If your a finding those littel treasures on your own or being shown them by a local is it's own reward. Putting themon a map is just wrong and in the long run bad marketing. Slowly getting to know a mountains secrets will keep people coming back for more.
post #6 of 69
It's cheesy but they do own or lease the whole mountain. They're within their rights to market all of the terrain their lifts serve.
post #7 of 69
not a question of "within rights," but rather, as U49 said, INTELLIGENT marketing.

stashes are part of a place's charm to serious skiers/boarders. it's dumb marketing to make them more widely known.
post #8 of 69
Of course they are within their rights to put anything they want on a trail map. Should they have? He!! no!! They'll probably lose more business than they will gain from stunts like this. But then again, it IS Kmart: , so consider the source.
post #9 of 69
It's about as smart as Whistler lying about conditions up there. Short term thinking...
post #10 of 69
Business people running resorts using short term thinking? Never!
post #11 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utah49
Business people running resorts using short term thinking? Never!
and here you have the MAIN reason I prefer ski "areas" or "hills" to "ski resorts"

resorts usually are corporate entities maximizing profit regardless of the skiing.

ski hills and/or ski areas tend to be corporate only for liability reasons, and tend to be run for the skiers that go there, not for the maximal profit as if it were "just another investment"

long live the "family" or "old style" ski hill.
post #12 of 69
Happened a long time ago here in Whistler, and every year some more secret terrain is on the map.
post #13 of 69
Years ago Deer Valley created an Experts Only Map of the hidden stashes.
At frs the locals and employees didn't like it, cause they were afraid that our secrets were out.
Well they are out, however they don't get very crowded, even on pow day.
I still know of a cople of spots not listed on any map at DV. And still go there today, there might be 2- sets of tracks in there.
I think in order to ski a stash, you should buy the patroler or liftie a half rack of beer.
post #14 of 69
Thread Starter 
We picked up a liftie hitchiking to work on our way to mrg one day. He gave us the goods Even with the knowledge of the stashes at Mad River it still takes a ton of experience to take full advantage of them.

Alfonse
post #15 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnH
Of course they are within their rights to put anything they want on a trail map. Should they have? He!! no!! They'll probably lose more business than they will gain from stunts like this. But then again, it IS Kmart: , so consider the source.
Dont get me wrong, I dont agree with this strategy but we are dealing with Killington..... which.... just gained ?# of trails and did not spend a dime other than reprinting the maps. Killington is still the 500 pound gorilla in the east and they just went to 600 lbs, by reprinting a map.
post #16 of 69
Octopuses Garden and the 19th Hole at MRG are two that I still want to hit. Every year we say we are gonna do the 19th Hole and we never do, dag nab it, this year we will !!!!
post #17 of 69
Thread Starter 
19th Hole was one of the spots he told us about. We skied it, it goes way out almost to Sugarbush North. It seemed like lots of traversing for not lots of reward. Just ski Upper Antelope and you will see the openings in the woods to your right. As for Octopuses Garden I have skied that 3 times.... I consider myself a 9, I am a strong quick turning go fast expert who loves a challenge. Octopuses Garden is very technical and downright dangerous. I will not ski it unless the snow is excellent. It is skiers left of paradise. What it consists of is like a staircase. At each step you will have a choice, huge huck in tight woods, or a couple of technical ledges in tight woods. Fear is a real factor in there, it is doable but tough. I was skiing paradise earlier this year and cut into the woods left about halfway down, strayed into the garden, was instantly on top of a huge huck. Our favorite at MRG is $hithouse woods. Riding up the single it is the woods on your right passed the midstation. Very tight woods with excellent lines through them. When you link a few turns in there it almost feels like you are skiing through a tunnel. Tight woods though....

I would not worry about giving away secrets at MRG. 2 of the three places I just mentioned is incredibly difficult and technical terrain. Most people would ski it once and never again. If you are looking for an adventure though.....


Alfonse
post #18 of 69
This is not new! Killington has had the gladed "zones" on the trail map since the 2001-2002 season. Julio, Anarchy, The Big Dipper, and others are also marked by trail signage.

I used to carry a small pair of binoculars to spot the "hidden glades" at Stowe, Sugarbush, and Kiliington.

I would rather have the resort maintain the glade skiing and promote it so that it is safer for everyone. If the the resort clears out the underbrush and dangerous logs for my safety, then they should put it on their map.
post #19 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericfelker
I would rather have the resort maintain the glade skiing and promote it so that it is safer for everyone. If the the resort clears out the underbrush and dangerous logs for my safety, then they should put it on their map.
please don't ever come ski in Montana. we don't make the glades safe for spodes and gapers like you.
post #20 of 69
Do they at least widen the tree gaps to accommodate the chicken wing? You'd bust that thing off clean at MRG.
post #21 of 69
Alfonse,

Are you gonna be around next Friday?
post #22 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by xdog1
Do they at least widen the tree gaps to accommodate the chicken wing? You'd bust that thing off clean at MRG.
alas, doggy, the chicken wing is withering like Bob Dole's right arm now that I've got my boots balanced and am using Arcmeister's drills. perhaps I should send it to Buffalo NY for repackaging as a bar snack?
post #23 of 69
Another thoughtless and rude post by the Muppet Show character Gonzo! Spoken like a mindless puppet.

It is common knowledge that the local skiers of MRG, Stowe, and Sugarbush clear the glades during the summer. This is necessary every year due to the low snowfall amounts in the Northeast. The heavier snowfall amounts in the Rockies reliably cover most natural obstructions and skiing the trees in the Rockies is safer than the Northeast.

Most of the tree skiing in NE is in dense hardwood forests and is much harder to spot from a distance, so the evil ski resorts direct their customers (evil non-local skiers) to tree skiing spots on the trail maps. At Rocky Mt ski areas it is easy to see the Aspen glades and possible Evergreen tree skiing spots, so most are not on trail maps in that region.

BTW, How's the tree skiing up on Lolo Mt. this year? I think I'll be there on opening day when it opens just to spite you.
post #24 of 69
Alta did the same thing this year. The feed back we had gotten from people was "You only have 20 trails." We'll we've got 2200 acres. So they redid the map with all of the shots we all knew now "ofically" named on the map. I guess if it's not named, you can't ski it...

So we went from this:
http://www.skiresortguide.com/gfx/tr.../ut01tm01f.jpg

To this:
http://www.alta.com/Frames/trailmap.htm

At least they didn't give away ALL the goods

L
post #25 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericfelker
Another thoughtless and rude post by the Muppet Show character Gonzo! Spoken like a mindless puppet.
nothing like the peanut gallery's resident cretin offering his Suntan USA retirement committee version of what is good skiing. hey eedjit, the "gonzostrike" has NOTHING to do with being a "gonzo" person, nothing to do with the muppets, and nothing at all to do with your randomly malfunctioning intellect. same w/r/t "strike".

go home old goat. go home and stay there. you don't have a friggin' clue, you want everything so sanitized for your fearful, just-can't-wait-to-sue-for-riches myopic brain.
post #26 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzostrike
nothing like the peanut gallery's resident cretin offering his Suntan USA retirement committee version of what is good skiing. hey eedjit, the "gonzostrike" has NOTHING to do with being a "gonzo" person, nothing to do with the muppets, and nothing at all to do with your randomly malfunctioning intellect. same w/r/t "strike".

go home old goat. go home and stay there. you don't have a friggin' clue, you want everything so sanitized for your fearful, just-can't-wait-to-sue-for-riches myopic brain.
Lighten up, please. We all know who your o' worshipped one is. Of course, we're surprised you would so firmly deny being the fluffy Gonzo-one; I mean, the Muppets were so non-corporate! And will you ever get over your name-calling?

Back to the thread topic, please.

So...I have noticed some rather travelled trails at resorts before. One neat one off (upper) 4 O'Clock Run at Breckenridge looked particularly interesting. It wound way back into the trees and emptied again just above Goodbye Girl (for those familiar with Breck). Couldn't find it on the map...cool!

- HT
post #27 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarvardTiger
Lighten up, please. We all know who your o' worshipped one is. Of course, we're surprised you would so firmly deny being the fluffy Gonzo-one; I mean, the Muppets were so non-corporate! And will you ever get over your name-calling?
lighten up Howard Taft/Tweedle Dum. Please.
post #28 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzostrike
nothing like the peanut gallery's resident cretin offering his...snip...
Cretin?

I come to this forum for pure fun and enjoyment. I suspect that is the case for 99.9% of the others who share their thoughts and experiences herein.

Why, then, do you find it so necessary to call so many posters so many names? Just what is so threatening about someone's opinion or view or experience or desire to try to demean them with such rude and juvenile flames? Is this simple forum, about skiing for gosh sakes, so emotionally threatening to you? Or do you so badly need to demean others to make yourself feel superior? (If so, I can suggest a baseball cap that would be perfect for you...)

Can you just explain this? Or, better, stop it?

You know, gonzo, when one reads through your half-way serious posts about skiing it is usually good and informative stuff. But it's hard to find the quality when it is so well hidden by your insults. And it takes what should be a completely positive experience--even in times of debate among positions--and sours it with your silliness.

Come on. Join the grown-ups.
post #29 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarvardTiger
Cretin?

I come to this forum for pure fun and enjoyment. I suspect that is the case for 99.9% of the others who share their thoughts and experiences herein.

Why, then, do you find it so necessary to call so many posters so many names? Just what is so threatening about someone's opinion or view or experience or desire to try to demean them with such rude and juvenile flames? Is this simple forum, about skiing for gosh sakes, so emotionally threatening to you? Or do you so badly need to demean others to make yourself feel superior? (If so, I can suggest a baseball cap that would be perfect for you...)

Can you just explain this? Or, better, stop it?

You know, gonzo, when one reads through your half-way serious posts about skiing it is usually good and informative stuff. But it's hard to find the quality when it is so well hidden by your insults. And it takes what should be a completely positive experience--even in times of debate among positions--and sours it with your silliness.

Come on. Join the grown-ups.
All you ever do is complain about Gonzo. Booooring!

Stop trying to make a silk purse from a sow's ear, Mr. Harvard. This is Gonzo, and while he ruffles your delicately smoothed and perfect feathers, he's High Entertainment for some. I like him just the way he is.

He's over the top sometimes, rude at other times, serious sometimes, astute most all the time, but never dull and lifeless, like you would have every poster post....sanitized and politically correct.:

You're just poking the wasp nest here. Put down your stick and let the bees do what bees do, or go find Paula's. They aren't so Uncivilized there.
post #30 of 69
"It is common knowledge that the local skiers of MRG, Stowe, and Sugarbush clear the glades during the summer. This is necessary every year due to the low snowfall amounts in the Northeast."

well not really...i suppose sometimes. It's not really neccesary because of the tree growth. Many areas containing those "hidden" trails are on protected land, thus free from continued logging efforts. What is common knowledge is most forests in this part of the country, as well as other parts, has been forested many times over. Fortunately for many of these protected slopes, the tree growth is old growth...or "older growth" which promotes large hardwoods with extensive canopys. This limits lower growth, elimiating many of the "pungees" that either have to be cut or annoyingly delt with druing the run. As opposed to many areas I ski in maine that are recent growth and contain a dense understory, that must be cleared for a smooth run (i.e. Shockwave woods vs. The planets or 3 Amigos).

....and many of the snowfall amounts in northern Vermont are not that "low".
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