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K2 KVC's = ??????

post #1 of 27
Thread Starter 
This is the story, I am currently 31 but between the ages of 12 and 19, I was on the slopes about 50 dys/year. I considered myself a very strong skier at the time spent most of my days in the bumps. Unfortunately, I ski in the East where Pow is seldom ever seen or experienced. My last 2 yrs skiing where on K2 KVC comps and they were the absolute best skis I ever had. I loved them to the point of no return. I could move them edge to edge super quickly and easily or bounce them through the bumps in full control. Now ! After 12 or so years without skiing, I head out to Jay Peak with 12 inches of fresh on the ground and rent some high performance gear from the shop. The skis I had were Solomon's. Don't know the name but they were orange with some kind of dampner attached a few inches from the binding. Now I know that 12 years of not skiing is probably 80% of the problem I had with them but truth be told, I hated them. I found that they were excessively slow to toss around in the bumps and I had a miserable time trying to get quick edge sets down a steep. The made perfect GS turn but shorter was a real problem.

I guess at this point I'm considered old school and am wondering if anyone out there could suggest a ski that would approximate my KVC's of old. Particularly in the quickness from edge to edge. I have been told to purchase an all out slalom ski such as the K2 Axis s but figured I would get better feedback here possibly from someone who has experienced the same thing.

post #2 of 27
Before I get too involved I want to know, are your KVC's the all PINK letters on top of Grey(traditional SL), or are they the KVC 8.3 that have a rainbow of neon (J turn SL).
Reason I ask Is because at the time there was a huge difference in the way these two ski reacted.
The original KVC (all pink lettering) is one of my all time favorite ski's. But I would be brutalized now if I tried to take them out and ski the whole mountain today.

One of the issues is that since new ski's are wider these days, it is hard to get a ski to go edge to edge as quickly as with a traditional SL like the KVC.
Note, that specific bump ski's today are using old traditional SL dimensions.

One of the biggest things one must do when switching from a traditional ski to the new shape is relax a bit. The new ski's do not have to be powered as much, thus a bit more finesse and you'll be golden. It took me awhile to get used to the shapes myself but now there is no turning back.

Now you were also skiing on the Salomon X-Scream, in comparison to your KVC's is a wet noodle. Skiing in bumps with a shaped ski is totally different too. The tail flair is much greater these days and hangs up at the bottom of a trough. I have been a huge complainer about the new ski tec and the bump performance. But recently I have found the sweet spot in the bumps so it is not quite as bad as I had once stated. Still easier to do zipper lines on a straight ski.

D'OH! Gotta go, more later.......
post #3 of 27
Thread Starter 
I was skiing the traditional KVC. Pink on Grey. I am glad that you confirmed my opinion on the X-Scream. Also, you mention the tails of the new shaped skis as being difficult to adapt to and that was the very first thing I noticed ! As for skiing the whole mountain, I ski in the east (Quebec) where typically the whole mountain means hard-pack, ice, groomed and more hardpack. I think I have experienced true pow probably 5 times in all my years skiing so an "all-mountain" ski for me doesn't mean very much. Now, I realize that the new skis have several advantages and I am not so stuck that I refuse to learn a new technique. I just would like the old snappy feeling of the KVC's.
post #4 of 27
Why not just go to all the ski swaps and second hand shops, papers and classifieds etc, and get yourself some more KVC's? There will be some around somewhere.

They were great skis, had and broke 3 pairs before giving up on them - all snapped tips. But K2 are great on warranties...and I even got a tour of the factory on Vashon Island once.
post #5 of 27
For the time the KVC's were truly wonderful skis. I had some Alpine Pool versions that were even more aggressive, and snappier in the tail than the other non-Alpine Pool pair I had. Great skis for the time. But the new skis really are *more* aggressive in all ways, including in the tails.

World Cup racers are skiing faster and harder on hard-pack, ice, groomed and more hardpack than any of us ever will . . . and we are also hearing stories that they not only find plent of snap out of them, but a "scary" amount of snap out of the tail. I think it must still boil down to adjusting to them. You gain options on the new skis, but don't loose any - but more options means new methods of utilizing them.
post #6 of 27
I still have a pair of what look like KVCs but are race-stock slaloms under the top skin: thick and with cracked edges. Every season I get them out on the first artificial snow and flog myself for a few runs. Similar idea to the baseball batter swinging three bats to make swinging one seem easier.
post #7 of 27
Weren't those K2 cracked edges a nightmare?! I was forever getting base hits repaired. And then giving up and skiing with chunks missing.
post #8 of 27
Whatever the merits or faults of the KVC Comp skis, their modern K2 equivalents are the Mach S for slalom, and Mach G for GS.
post #9 of 27
Thread Starter 
GONZOSTRIKE, are the mach s's as quick. I am willing to deal with the learning curve but would to feel that a similar result will come from the effort put in. As for buying old kvc's, it isn't an option. I've just started skiing again and want to take advantage of the new technology and evrything it brings. I am excited that skiing seems to have caught on again and that not all revolves around snowboarding. I think snowboarding is great but do not think it's superior. Just another way down the hill !

My only issue is in buying the wrong ski. I don't want to end up with a ski that wasn't meant to turn quickly or zipper down the bumps.
post #10 of 27
If you could deal with a 2 ski quiver, what about one of the current generation of mogul specific skis plus an all-mountain one for general use?

I just happened to see that www.skiershop.com/sshop/dept.asp?s%5Fid=0&dept%5Fid=670 lists a bunch of mogul skis you might want to look over:

Mogul Skis
2002 Dynastar Assault
MSRP $700.00
ON SALE $599.00

2002 Salomon 1080 Mogul
MSRP $675.00
ON SALE $499.00
Evolution 720 Titanium Skis
MSRP $700.00
ON SALE $619.00

Fischer Lunar
MSRP $595.00
ON SALE $479.00

Hart F-17
MSRP $595.00
ON SALE $365.00

[Edited to make the #$% URL work]

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ January 31, 2002 10:13 AM: Message edited 2 times, by PhysicsMan ]</font>
post #11 of 27
For another slant...

Gart Sports and their affiliates out west have tons of old Dynastar, Fischer and Atomic straights for $19.99 new. Dynastar S9's, X9's and X8's are most likely the closest to your KVC's. I don't recommend the old school stick anymore, but it is a cheap option.

On another level, I used to ski old TRC's and KVC's from K2 before the shaped revolution. I recall thinking after my first shaped ski experience that they weren't for me, because of bump performance and edge to edge quickness. Boy, did my views change! Anyhow, technique for shapes changes from a KVC. You will learn that as your exposure grows. You are making the first step into an exciting chapter in your skiing experience. Before shapes, I loved bumps and slalom. Now, I can't get enough G's from GS style skiing at warp! Good luck in your quest.
post #12 of 27
Welcome to the New world of skiing.Here is a sugestion for you.Why not take a lession or two so you get a better understanding of how the newer shaped skis work? Keep in mind also that some of that quick edge to edge and bump skiing You remember so well was done with the legs and energy of a 19 year old! Yes, not only have skis changed but so have you. Now 31 is by no means over the hill,Your just a diffrent man then you were at 19.The good news here is that the new skis don't take as much energy as older skis,yet they really do give back so much more.I don't have any thoughts on what skis to buy.Once you learn how to use the new skis I am sure you will find a ski you will love as much as the old K2's.
post #13 of 27
Thread Starter 
I definately agree with the ugly age factor. Let's just say that the brain remembers much more then the body does. The great news however is that the brain was just as excited at 31 as it was at 19. After 12 yrs, I was sore in places I didn't know existed ! I am also looking into a couple of lessons but my hesitation so far is with the age of instructors in my area. Most are of the 19-20 age and I would like someone who understands the old ways to guide me through.
post #14 of 27

evolution of ski shape dictates that a ski designed for zipperline bump skiing is the only thing close to what you seek. The K2 Mach S and Mach G are the current SL and GS racers. If you want a current SL or GS racer, that ski will not be a zipperline bump ski. The current racing skis carve like mad and hate skidding.

I suggest you look at the various mogul-specific skis on the market. I'm not that type of skier so I don't know what to recommend.
post #15 of 27
I really don't think you want mogul skis. They are narrow & prone to skid. They are designed for zipper line classic style mogul skiing and from what I know about the KVC I doubt that is how you ski moguls.

Most of my time skiing is spent skiing moguls. Up until 2 years ago I used a 200+ cm slalom ski for that purpose. The ski I'm now using for moguls is the Rossignol Mountain Viper X PPS, 181 cm. It is amazing & a total blast. I highly recommend you try it. If you feel like you are overpowering it (something you might coming from using old, stiff motherf@*&^~s) try the Rossignol 9X PPS which is basically a stiffer version of the same ski.

Other skis you might want to try are the K2 Mach S, Volkl Carver Motion, Dynastar Autodrive Speed Carve & another favorite of mine, the Atomic Beta Race 9.20.
post #16 of 27

DON'T make a mistake. Your skiing will love you if you buy new shapes. You will have to make an adjustment or two- kinda like you don't have to wait for your car's drum brakes to dry out after a puddle anymore. You go ahead and make that small adjustment or two in your technique, and you won't believe the results. Staggering, really.

Good luck. [img]smile.gif[/img]
post #17 of 27
Thread Starter 
Wow ! This board is absolutely amazing. I expected maybe 2 answers tops and 2 days later there are like 13 replies. You guys are great ! I will heed everyones advice and re-adapt. I will be skiing the k2-slalom ski this weekend and will be skiing with someone who has been through the transition from old style to new which should help. I will make sure to post my findings. I hope however yhat this time my body won't need 3 days to recover ....LOL
post #18 of 27
I am 49 + 2 years (I never tell the ski techs I am over 49 cuz they then will lower my din setting to 3 or 4.)Ok I'm kidding.
But I understand what you are saying about The sprit still being there and the body paying the dues.Lisamarie post some good stuff on working out getting the Body back in shape for skiing, Take a look at her stuff.Have fun and welcome back to skiing!
post #19 of 27
Thread Starter 
OK guys, I ski'd -em and now I own'em. I spent 2 days on the K2 Axis S and really fell in love. Truth be told, they still feel very different from my old KVC's but I am drawing on a memory that is 10+ yrs old. More important however is that I feel as though I found middle ground. The slopes were covered in hard-pack and serious ice but I skied through it without problems. The ski edges really quickly compared to my Solomen experience and I found them much easier to toss in the bumps. It took some time but I think I have found the primary difference. THEY DON"T SKID. I didn't realize how much I used to skid my skis until now. They just won't break loose. By the end of the second day, I had it together and really enjoyed the slopes. Now unfortunately, 2 days later, I'm once again sore as hell but it's good pain ! The kind I want to feel next monday after another weekend of skiing.
post #20 of 27
Take your new skis to Jay and take a lesson (or several). The instructors are professional (many older than you) and are well versed in modern shaped ski techniques.

I just returned from a five day stay there that included 5 group lesson (2 hours each day of the week). I've been doing this for years and have yet to have a bad experence.
post #21 of 27
Congratulations, Gelex--I think you made the right choice. Welcome to EpicSki!

It will take some getting used to, but the new skis, as you've already discovered, can do things with ease that the old skis couldn't even think of doing.

Remember that any ski is just as "quick from edge to edge" as you can tip it! The shape makes no difference there. What you may be feeling is that the edge of a "straight" ski, like an old slalom--like the KVC Comp--engages the moment you pressure it. A new deep-sidecut ski has to first bend ("decamber") before you will feel that solid edge engagement. So you have to be a little "softer"--but once it engages, it will do so much more....

On the other hand, the old skis really didn't WORK very well when you went quickly from one edge to the other. If you tried to engage too early, they would just want to go straight, and you'd have to twist them around into a skid to complete the turn. You actually had to be more patient with the older skis, waiting longer, then edging more abruptly and more briefly. New skis can, at least in some situations, truly roll from edge-to-edge and link turns that are carved from start to finish, without needing to go Mach 5. In that sense, they are actually much "quicker edge-to-edge."

Anyway, please do find a good instructor. There is no better or quicker way to connect with the new skis than to take a lesson from a qualified pro.

Finally, here is the very technical explanation of the difference between old skis and new....

Enjoy those skis with the built-in grins!

Best regards,
Bob Barnes
post #22 of 27
Lots of good info here, but it leads into a question for me. I'm in the midst of demoing a variety of skis, trying to decide what genre of ski as well as specific skis in that group. So far, I've been out on Atomic Betaride 10.20 (180) and Rossi Viper S (174). I liked both, but preferred the nimbleness, quickness and stability of the Viper S, although from another thread I think I should optimally be on a 167.

The K2 Axis X is another ski I'm planning to demo (as well as others like the Bandit X and Volkl Motions), and I'm looking to see what the main differences between this type of ski and the Viper S (or the K2 equivalent, the Mach S) would be. Is it simply more versatile in a variety of conditions? Will I give up much of the turnability and quickness for the versatility?

I'm primarily an east coast skier, sticking to mostly groomed runs with maybe just a few bumps thrown in. If I go west, I'll demo skis that fit the conditions.

I'm 6 ft, 170 and an advanced intermediate, which I think translates to a low-level 8.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ February 12, 2002 06:47 AM: Message edited 1 time, by exnyerinmontreal ]</font>
post #23 of 27
I teach full time and must state I'm a K2 "pro rep". My task is to put as many instructors on K2 skis as possible. I also take my clients to a local shop and try to get them on the K2 product.

The Mach S is our short snappy ski. Simply stated it will carve a tighter turn due to it's sidecut when skied at the same length as our other products. I ski a 160 cm Mach S 95% of the time and think it is a great ski. I'm 5'10" and weigh 180 lbs.

The Axis X or Axis X pro will not carve quite as tight a turn due to their design. As Bob stated the difference is negligible because radius is dependant upon how much the ski is put on edge.I also own a 174 cm Axis X pro. This is a ski that is somewhat more comfortable at higher speeds primarily due to it's length.

Some folks want a little more ski underfoot and less tip width for varying conditions. I think any of these skis will do well in any conditions.

A one ski option would be an Axis X in the 167 cm size. I don't think one could go wrong with what I term a mid length ski with mid range dimensions.
post #24 of 27
I appreciate the K2 bias -- my last pair of skis were K2's.

Can I really ski the Axis X that short? I can understand the Viper S or Mach S, but I figured I'd be on a 174 or 181 with that ski.
post #25 of 27
gelex, I'm a little confused. You said you bought the Axis S. Did you mean Mach S? or perhaps Axis X? different skis, of course. I've yet to try the Mach S but would love to do so.
post #26 of 27
Thread Starter 
Sorry Gonzo, I meant the Mach S,

I;ve skied them about 6 times now and I like'em more and more every day out. I must admit though that the tails are still causing some grief. All I can say is that if I gain any amount of speed and get onto the back of the skis it's over ! I get launched in a big way. I know it's my lack of skill but if I get onto the tails it's over, there's no way for me to get re-centered. The tails are like springboards. : One big big advantage is when it gets icy. I skied on tuesday and it was bitter cold. The slopes were sheer and I was able to carve without any hesitation. Actually the faster I went to more grip I generated. Comparing to my old school skis and method this would have been impossible. This way the type of day I would have hated on my old KVC's.

One interesting note is after 3 or 4 days on them I found I was struggling trying to stay over the skis, I found my torso constantly chasing the boards. I added a couple of wedges to my boots which basically put me in a way more aggressive stance and voila I improved my balance by 50% and find myself chasing the skis much less. SIDENOTE. I may be chasing them less because if I do get behind I'm gone..LOL
post #27 of 27
Hey Gelex!
Glad you're enjoying the new skis, so now you'd better update your profile - cause you ain't on old gear no more!

Have fun!

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