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Apology

post #1 of 22
Thread Starter 
In threads past, I have questioned some of my east coast brethren about just where and when they were encountering all of this "bulletproof, blue ice".

It seems I'd just been very lucky in not encountering such conditions.

That lucky streak ended in Quebec City this past weekend. Omigawd, I've never skied such ice in my life! Even with really sharp edges, I had to ski pretty defensively to keep from blowing out. Went down once when trying to stop at a trail junction, and bruised my kneecap.

Rough, rough conditions.

So call me a doubting Thomas no more. I have now been properly introduced.
post #2 of 22
Lovely stuff, these Quebec conditions huh?

Personally, there is nothing I hate more than such "bulletproof conditions". Unfortunately in the last few years Mont-Saint-Anne has them with astounding consistency.

I think average Western skiers would freak in these conditions - especially those who tune their edges once a season.
post #3 of 22
If you can ski that stuff, you can ski anything. It's the blue stuff I don't like -- as long as it's white, it's good. I am not at all surprised that so many very good skiers come from Quebec.
post #4 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigE
If you can ski that stuff, you can ski anything. It's the blue stuff I don't like -- as long as it's white, it's good. I am not at all surprised that so many very good skiers come from Quebec.
Being able to set an edge on bulletproof does not guarantee anything. I have seen plenty of good ice skiers flailing helplessly in deep or heavy powder and even worse in crud (way too much back-seating). If anything, I would say skiers adept at crud skiing can ski just about anywhere. It takes a keen sense of balance and subtle weighting to execute good turns in the stuff (using fatty’s don’t count).

Powdr
post #5 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Powdr
... If anything, I would say skiers adept at crud skiing can ski just about anywhere. It takes a keen sense of balance and subtle weighting to execute good turns in the stuff (using fatty’s don’t count).
Powdr
Now, you tell me....
post #6 of 22
If there aren't fish underneath it, it isn't ice.
post #7 of 22
Heh. Something tells me (besides his username) that powdr hasn't skied too much REAL ice. Any time you feel the need to experience the real stuff, come visit. Due to the fact that average daily highs are above freezing and lows below in Tennessee, our one ski resort is more often than not, a solid sheet of said blue stuff. And if you think we can't ski crud, then you haven't seen our GOOD conditions, which generally consist of nothing but.
post #8 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Powdr
Being able to set an edge on bulletproof does not guarantee anything.
It guarantees that you can handle bulletproof without killing yourself. But that does not mean you can ski deep powder or crud. So rest assured, just like Westerners cannot handle ice all that easily, Easterners cannot handle deep snow all that easily. We all need practice to get to a certain level of proficiency. I am talking about average skiers, not skis superstars.
post #9 of 22
Zac: In fact, yes I have skied ice. I used to ski it on the locals hills of SoCal, which too suffer from extreme freeze/thaw cycles (& rain in between). Skiing ice taught me EDGE CONTROL, not how to ski other conditions.

TOMB: Your reinforcing my point. Being able to ski ice guarantees your ability to ski ice. It does not make you a better skier (unless sking ice all the time is what you ski).

Enough with this satisficing Easterners do about how they are so much better skiers because they ski ice so much. It only makes them better ice skiers (an perhaps a World Cup Racer, if that's your thing).

Powdr
post #10 of 22
It is snowing in Pownal
post #11 of 22
A few years ago in Whistler, a group of us were being guided by a local pro/ex-World Cupper. Two of us had never encountered the depths of snow and variety of terrain he exposed, until we merged onto the Dave Murray downhill. We were gone like a couple of shots! When the group finally caught up with our guide in tow, he was laughing.

"You two guys are definitely from the East right?"

Needless to say, there wasn't anything wrong with our technique, merely suitable application/adaptation of it to the terrain. I learned a lot in two days with him, including (and this is very important for us Easterners) how to be more subtle and patient.
post #12 of 22
Powdr,

I never said Easterners are better skiers! In fact I think we agree on just about every point.
post #13 of 22
Xdog,

What was their snow report saying? Let me guess... "packed powder"? I wouldn't be surprised.

You picked a hell of a good time for your trip my friend; it's freezing cold! Good to hear you made it ok though....
post #14 of 22

Big man,

Xdog1 to fess up. Good for you. and great to hear you are still open minded enough to keep learning!
post #15 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZacMan1987
Heh. Something tells me (besides his username) that powdr hasn't skied too much REAL ice. Any time you feel the need to experience the real stuff, come visit. Due to the fact that average daily highs are above freezing and lows below in Tennessee, our one ski resort is more often than not, a solid sheet of said blue stuff. And if you think we can't ski crud, then you haven't seen our GOOD conditions, which generally consist of nothing but.
My wife & I tried skiing for the first time on your home mountain.
We didn't ski again for 20 yrs.
Not to be ugly, but it really sucked!
I've been on crud & the blue crap you refer to.
The crud I adapted to. Your never quite ready for the blue sh$&t when you hit it. IMO
post #16 of 22
Welcome to the Dark Side of the force, young jedi skiier...
post #17 of 22
GAHAHAHAHA! I love stories like these. We know it sucks. The only thing that sucks worse is driving 3 hours to North Carolina at 6 or 7 in the morning, then 3 hours back at 10 at night! Hence the reason for Ober's existence. Glad to see that Ober didn't completely alienate you from an otherwise amazing sport.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rayl1964
My wife & I tried skiing for the first time on your home mountain.
We didn't ski again for 20 yrs.
Not to be ugly, but it really sucked!
I've been on crud & the blue crap you refer to.
The crud I adapted to. Your never quite ready for the blue sh$&t when you hit it. IMO
post #18 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by learn2turn
If there aren't fish underneath it, it isn't ice.
I think I might've seen a pike and a coupla perch. :
post #19 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomB
It guarantees that you can handle bulletproof without killing yourself. But that does not mean you can ski deep powder or crud. So rest assured, just like Westerners cannot handle ice all that easily, Easterners cannot handle deep snow all that easily. We all need practice to get to a certain level of proficiency. I am talking about average skiers, not skis superstars.
I'd rather practice in the deep snow. And I've lived on both coasts, too (and grew up skiing the awesome mountains of lower Michigan!).
post #20 of 22
I was at MSA last week. Conditions were good until the freezing rain on Thursday. Saturday was fast conditions and very skiable all morning, particually where the guns were blowing. By about 2 PM it was getting skied off to large patches of blue ice. The back side had much better conditions.

Sorry about your fall. That would hurt worse than astroturf and the snow was very fast. All I can say is the 3 degree side bevel is cruce. After increasing that I noticed a nice improvment of my 5*s on bullet proof.

I am not sure a defensive technique is good for ice. Trying to go slow in blue ice = skiiding out of control because you do not have enough kenetic energy to carve your skis down into the ice as slower speeds. Skiing fast lets you put energy into the turn and lets them carve down through harder ice. IMO patience during turn initiation and precise timing of slower movements with a lot of strength to carve down works for me in harder ice.
post #21 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by xdog1
In threads past, I have questioned some of my east coast brethren about just where and when they were encountering all of this "bulletproof, blue ice".

It seems I'd just been very lucky in not encountering such conditions.

That lucky streak ended in Quebec City this past weekend. Omigawd, I've never skied such ice in my life! Even with really sharp edges, I had to ski pretty defensively to keep from blowing out. Went down once when trying to stop at a trail junction, and bruised my kneecap.

Rough, rough conditions.

So call me a doubting Thomas no more. I have now been properly introduced.
Interesting stuff, isn't it?

I met my match at Stowe 30 years ago. It took me a while to adjust to it and I had grown up skiing on hard snow and was a racer and coach as well. Just never had been on anything quite that slippery.

Takes a readjustment and a combination of aggressive skiing and quick but gentle edging to conquer (should I say manage) it.

Felt good about my skiing but would never choose those conditions.
post #22 of 22
There is no substitute to skiing loud powder. It's fast, hard and skidding is punishable.
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