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Tuning question

post #1 of 14
Thread Starter 
I have been doing some tuning on my skis for several years (edging & waxing), but I have never been able to fill gouges in the base. Every time I fill the hole and then let it cool and then scrape it, it just rips almost everything out of the hole I was trying to fill. when I wax I scrape tip to tail like this:

Tip -> / -> Tail

where "/" is the scraper. But for scraping the excess P-Tex I was told to do it like this:

Tip -> \ -> Tail
Is this correct?

Also, I am never too pleased with my edging. Most people say just to file the side bevel, not the base bevel. I usually use a diamond stone and the SKS Rolling Side Bevel Guide (Tognar # MTK-3152). But it doesn't seem to do much. Is it because I need to use a sidewall planer before doing this? Also, if you have a ding where the base and side bevel meet, how would just filing the side bevel ever remove this? Also, I have the DMT diamond stones from Tognar, but have since heard that they suck. Are there better ones that aren't too ridiculously priced?
post #2 of 14
lemmy999, when I fill a PTex gouge myself, I make sure to hold the candle very close to the base so that the flame from the candle will warm the base somewhat to help with bonding the drips to the base. I also make sure that the skis are room temperature. Keep in mind that the base is actually a different material than the candle, and that's the primary reason for the difficulty in bonding. Make sure that you let it cool for a long time before attempting to scrape, as well.

I scrape in the same directions that you note.

Do you notice a lot of sidewall material on the file when you side-sharpen the skis? This will tell you if you need to reduce the sidewalls.
post #3 of 14
Instead of a scraper, I have better luck with a wood chisel. I also bought a electric ptex iron, similar to a soldering iron, and some string ptex from Tognar. I use the bevel blade on the iron to push melted ptex into the gouge and then smooth the melted pool. After cooling, a light touch with the sharp wood chisel curls off the excess ptex nicely. I never had good luck with the scraper, it would pull the patch ptex out.
post #4 of 14
Thread Starter 
thanks for the info. I use a soldering iron and string. I will try the wood chisel trick and see if that works better for me.

My skis are fairly new and I have not performed any major cutting on them. Mainly just some sharpening with the DMT stones, but I do notice some material on them. I have just been a little nervous to use a sidewall planar since many have told me it is very hard to take off just a little with them.

Are Moonflex stones that much better than the DMT stones? If you could only have 1 (or 2) which grit do you think is best to
have. I was think a 200 and then if I could afford another a 400.

Ideally I would like to take me skis in to the shop once/year and then just do touch-ups and waxing myself, but I called one of the only shops in the area and asked them about what they do during a ski-tune. And it was what I had always thought they did. The stone grind the bases which puts a 0.5 on the base and then they put 1 on the side (actually he said they put whatever the machine is set up for at the time which he said was usually 1). I could tell them I wanted 1 & 3 (Atomics) but I just don't trust them to do it. So I figured that I have to do most of this myself.
post #5 of 14
i use a panzer file to do most of the filing followed by i think....80 grit sand paper to take most of it down.

then i use 100 followed by 200 followed by 400 grit sand paper and do wet sanding for all 3 grits followed by a nice hot iron wax [img]smile.gif[/img]

post #6 of 14
Originally posted by lemmy999:

Are Moonflex stones that much better than the DMT stones? If you could only have 1 (or 2) which grit do you think is best to
have. I was think a 200 and then if I could afford another a 400.
I have the 200 and 400 and they are awesome.

I know they are expensive but if you make sure you use a lubricant and clean them after each use, they will probably last a long time.

I am not sure how you can take off too much sidewall unless you are at too much of an angle.

I bought an SVST planer which is expensive but I have seen techs just tip a carbide bit on a side tool at a sharp angle and take it right off.

So maybe get a carbide bit for the tool you already have and try that.
post #7 of 14
I used to use an SKS side race combi but have switched to a bevel guide and clamp and like it much better.

I seem to get a better edge while taking off less material.
post #8 of 14
Thread Starter 
Thanks. I think I am going to get an FK Sidewall Planer to take off some of the sidewall and then get either the Moonstone 200 & 400 Diamond Stone ($32 each) or the SVST World Cup ($20 each, $15 for replacement strips). These are the tools I already have:

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">
From Tognar:
Gummi KLG-SF
3 Diamond Stones 2.75&quot; DMT-WS7K
Base Edge Beast 1 Degree BTS-10
SKS Rolling Bevel MTK-3152
Laser Cut Mill 8&quot; SVT-LF08
P-TEX reapair clr MTO-241
Copoly clear SPK-CPW
File Brush FFC-CAR08
Swix Brush SWX-T155

From other places:
Plastic Scraper
Metal Scraper
Wax Iron
Base Repair Iron</pre>[/quote]Anything else I need?

I used the Laser Cut Mill file from Tognar on some old skis that needed some serious filing and the file wouldn't cut anything (it is new and I tried it in both directions).
post #9 of 14
Go with the 200 and the 600 on the Moonies.
Also for sidewall planing, you can use a scraper
or even a utility knife, holding either at an acute
angle to the base and skive away.

[ January 07, 2004, 02:20 PM: Message edited by: John J ]
post #10 of 14
I was going to get a whole bunch of grits for the Moonflex but the SVST rep talked me out of it because he said the 200 and 400 are the most popular grits and the difference between the 400 and 600 is not that much.

I still might pick up a 100 and 600 just for fun.
post #11 of 14
For P-tex repairs i use a base repair pistol (about 15 years old) or one of those Butane fueled repair tools. Both have flat surface "platens", so you can use some pressure as you melt in your replacement material. I like using repair ribbon, holds well. I also use the pistol for melting in the ribbon, instead of the pistol's 11mm repair sticks. Any tool with a flat surface and enough heat is good for the repairs. Always leave the repairs slightly built up. On edge repairs you can use even more pressure using the edge as the depth guide.
Though I don't have any, metalgrip repair string sounds like a
good ticket for deeper repairs along the edge. But using the ribbon or string on the edge works for regular "freezer burn" (going fast edge material loss on harder colder snow).
If there is any doubt, clean your damaged areas before trying to adhere repairs. Do all your repairs (both skis) at one time
and walk away for a few minutes to let cool.
When you are back, start with a "Surform" plane blade, hell
, you don't even need the plane. You take the material to a reasonable level so you can work it down with a Panzer (curved tooth file) or silicon carbide sandpaper 80, 100 grit.
All that stuff about angles on the scraper (wax) and brushes...????
Have not used P-tex candles in years, last time I did, I used a torch to get and keep them going. I like being able to
pressure in the repair as opposed to drip drip drip.
If you are using a soldering iron, what kind of tip does it have? My picture of a soldering iron is a ball or pointed tip
which isn't any good for pressuring in repairs. You need to find something with a flat surface. The pistol (hey, it was expensive 15 years ago, too) has about an 11/16" square tip.
The Butane deal is probably 1/2" square. Something similar is
in the Artech catalog (SKS base torch # 787). In the past, I would have said the Butane torch was good for travel, but now...
Heck, I had TSA types question wax. For core shots on travel
outings, i'll use a shop that has a hotbox, 'cause i am not
going to carry a shop.
When in doubt, point'em straight down the line. Then the shot will be on the length, not cutting across and taking the edge with it.
Diamond "stones, files" are good for cleaning and honing
damaged edges, but you have to be light to get rid of the ?"out of plane" steel?. It is best to use a cheap mini Arkansas or a hard gummi to get rid of the ragged steel that may have been
blown out...the stuff you would catch your finger on.
The one file that can handle that stone killing raggedness is the FK carbide file, again you use it very lightly, it cuts the sh*t right on down, for side file work it is the only file
I use.. then right to the stone progression.

[ January 08, 2004, 10:14 AM: Message edited by: John J ]
post #12 of 14
I've experienced similar problem in past... usually because ski was too cold.... take your time....
post #13 of 14
Lemmy, didn't the SKS tool you bought from Tognar come with a sidewall planer attachment? There are two versions and Tognar sells the one with the attachment (though I had to ask them to send me one back because the first they sent me didn't have it).

post #14 of 14
Thread Starter 
I ordered it and it when it arrived it was open and the instructions included said it had the palner. However when I called them they said that the one they carried didn't have the planer. I told them how mine looked opened (like the planer was once in there and then removed) and he had some mildly believable excuse. I always did believe I was ripped off on that.
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