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axxis xp or bandit xx ?

post #1 of 27
Thread Starter 
Hello everyone: Time to turn to the experts. I am 5'8'' weight 185, I ski most of my time at Jay peak in the trees, hell I will ski anyhting that has snow on it. ocassionaly go into the parks at stowe also. I am looking at either the axxis xp in 174 cm, or the bandit xx at 170 cm. Any advice or input would be helpful. currently ski on mod x 181 cm, great on cruisers but takes alot of work in moguls and tight trees.
thanks :
post #2 of 27
I am not an expert on rossi skis but I have taken a few runs here and there on them. I would vote for the K2's in this one for a couple of reason. The K2 is a bit wider giving a bit more float in the soft and slop of jay or the like. They also have a bit more shape than the Bandits which is great on the trails if you stumble across those from time to time. The last reason that I like the K2 better is the core material. With the beating that skis take skiing ice, bumps, and trees I think the wood core will last longer for you than the foam core in the Bandits. I skied the Axis xp in 174 and 181 last year and found the 181 to feel like a 200cm and the 174 to feel like a 180cm that took directions well! It would go where I wanted when I wanted! I was comming of the Mach G 181 and the Mod X Pro 188 and noticed the slower edge to edge transition with the width of the Axis XP but once on edge the grip was great and the turn shape was fun fun fun! As I said before I have not spent as much time on the Bandits but I have nothing but good to say about the Axis XP!!!
Think snow!
post #3 of 27
I think I hear the footsteps of a barrister from Essex Junction...
post #4 of 27
ooh! ooh! I hate being so predictable! . . . but anyway,

Like you, I ski mostly in Vermont, including Jay. I weigh 150, stand 5'8", am the epitome of mediocrity on skis, and love my Bandit XX's in 170. If you choose that model, 170 would be too short for you, so try 177 and 184 - it'll be one or the other. The XX is ideal for what you describe. The hooey about core material is hooey. In the event that you DO have a problem, Rossi's reputation for replacing skis under warranty is excellent. Get Rossi bindings on them and extend your warranty.

The K2 Axis XP sounds interesting, and I can't comment on it without having skied it. I plan to demo that model at the first opportunity. From what I've read, the reason I may prefer the XX over the XP is that the XX, in the proper size for the skier, is very quick edge to edge, while the XP is not.
post #5 of 27
I've noticed before that you have referred to edge-to-edge speed of XX over the XP. I would think that the main things which influence that speed are: Width of ski under foot and height of binding. I'd be surprised if I, or other intermediates would notice much difference between the two, although if you were comparing them to cross country skis...
I'd say demo first, then decide. I think the XP might be a stiffer ski, so perhaps less friendly in the bumps, but can't be certain.

post #6 of 27
Not from personal experience, but watching a good friend on a many pairs of Rossis, I would shy away from rossi (non park specific) skis for the park. I've seen a lot of them break when things go wrong on a landing. Rossignol has an excellent replacement policy, as the same guy has gotten something like 7 free pairs out of them, but your still without a pair of skis for a bit. However, I have no experience with the K2 what-so-ever.
post #7 of 27
My son worked in a demo shop last season that carried Rossignols. The Bandit XX was not well liked by the young guns in the shop because of its was harder to maneuver in the air due to either it's weight or weight distribution (he wasn't sure which). While most sane skiers prefer the solid feel of the Bandit XX you might not if you are planning on using them in the park.
post #8 of 27
Thread Starter 
I knew oboe would respond with love for the bandits
post #9 of 27

I agree with you on the edge to edge discription. I think when people talk about how quickly a ski goes edge to edge I don't think they are really talking about the actual geometric straight line to lay over on the opposing edges.

What I think people "feel" when they say a ski is quick edge to edge is the release of the ski from the old turn to the new. Look at tail geometry and width. All tails are not created equal!!! Some are made to hang on to a turn others to allow early release, scarving and skidding. That quick edge to edge feeling I think is just the ease at which a ski release the old turn.

My $.02

post #10 of 27

how did you ski the XPs last season? all the reports I've heard have said that the only way to ski them is to be in the Southern Hemisphere or a secret room in Vashon Island right now.

Are you perhaps talking about the 2002 Axis X Pro, which is a totally different ski from the 2003 Axis XP?
post #11 of 27
I was on the Axis XP 174 and 181 last year with a few guys from K2. The ski was great! On the edge to edge speed the rossi may be slightly quicker but if you are in soft you will not feel the diff. I was on a pair with demo binders and not much of a lift. The ski still felt very quick edge to edge for its width. I was skiing them on a icy day at Waterville Valley in NH. I plan on putting them in my quiver for the year. I think even in the east they are a great ski and can't wait to get them out even on the ice!
post #12 of 27
Thread Starter 

Which ski did size did you prefer, the 174 or the 181.

Any major differences between the two sizes?

I am definately thinking about a 174 with the xp,

thinking that with its width I dont have to have

anything longer than that.

post #13 of 27
I agree on the 174 choice. The 181's felt like 210's on my feet. 174's give plenty of surface area for float and were a blast to ski!
post #14 of 27
I'm 5'8" and 150lbs and ski on the xx in a 177. The ski is plenty quick enough edge to edge for most all tree skiing. In powder 30 to 40 cm the ski is a blast. Any deeper and I found the shovel didn't float as well as I would like (my old 7XK's 201 cm were better in deep snow). The rossi is very stable at speed and held well on hard snow. The xx is a great all mountain ski I would recommend to any advanced skier. The K2 xp for this year has more surface area over all (5mm tip - 4mm waist - 5mm tail) this ski should float well but may be a bit slower edge to edge. Rossi softened the tail of the xx to ease the release,maybe that helped with the quickness. I would love to ski that new K2xp, I bet it's great. Good luck with your ski choice.
post #15 of 27
phantom, it sounds like you have a real understanding of the way the Rossi Bandit XX works. In fact, the tail IS made to be softer than the shovel [tip], and the goal IS to have the tail release more easily to enhance edge to edge quickness. Subjectively and objectively, the sucker sure works for me!

Notwithstanding, I'm looking forward to taking a ride on the K2 Axis XP and ALSO revisiting the Bandit XX in 177 - since your height and weight, and mine, seem to match.
post #16 of 27
Originally posted by oboe:
...the tail IS made to be softer than the shovel [tip], and the goal IS to have the tail release more easily to enhance edge to edge quickness...
Hi Oboe -

If I am not mistaken, I seem to remember hearing that Rossi softens the tail of these skis torsionally, and I just want to double check that this is what you are referring to in your above statement, or did you mean longitudinal flex, or perhaps, did you mean in both ways?

Tom / PM
post #17 of 27
Good point, Physics Guy. Here's what they do: They have a metal top sheet that's as wide as the ski in the shovel but tapers to a narrower width in the tail. By reducing the tortional stiffness in the tail, the ski releases from the turn more readily, and thus edge-to-edge quickness is enhanced. It would not surprise me if the tapered metal sheet also softened the tail longitudinally, and the stiffer shovel and more flexible tail definitely has a most noticeable affect. The ski enters the turn very quickly and exits the turn very quickly - but if the skier is not appropriately balanced for and aft, the skier can get knocked back by the stiffer shovel with not so much support from the softer tail. Once I figured that out, though, the XX became the most fun ski I've ever owned.

On the issue of the comparative edge-to-edge quickness of the Rossi Bandit XX and the K2 Axis XP, Peter Keelty's reports lead me to expect that the XX is discernably quicker than the XP.

Notwithstanding, I plan to revisit the Rossi Bandit XX in a 177 cm length, and I plan to demo the K2 Axis XP in 167 and 174. In the meantime, I'll be having a blast on my 170 cm XX's - all I need now is snow.
post #18 of 27
Thanks, Oklahoma! You are lucky to have had that early demo! Sounds like my Axis X might be going up on the auction block.

Peter Keelty rates the ski as 2 out of 5 possible points for rebound. That seems pretty darned low. I find he's accurate with the rebound assessments. I agreed with him on the past 2 skis I've owned.

Does the ski feel really damp? Does it have any pop at turn finish? Could you please give us a more detailed review?
post #19 of 27
Originally posted by oboe:
Good point, Physics Guy. Here's what they do: They have a metal top sheet that's as wide as the ski in the shovel but tapers to a narrower width in the tail. By reducing the tortional stiffness in the tail, the ski releases from the turn more readily, and thus edge-to-edge quickness is enhanced...
This is the statement that I've occasionally heard, but I am a bit puzzled / uneazy about it.

The reason is that while the release of the tail certainly occurs more quickly with a torsionally soft tail, re-engagement of the opposite edge will be delayed by the exact same number of degrees, so there would seem to be no net effect.

Actually, there is a way around this, and that is if the designers assume that on every turn, the skier will likely be more on his tails as he completes the turn, and then get more on the ski's (torsionally stiff) forebody (of the other ski) as he initiates the next turn, then the quick release is coupled with a quick initiation.

This is ok, but if this is what they are expecting, this fore-aft motion is somewhat old school, takes more energy than remaining centered, etc. Obviously, other things are involved (eg, two skis not one, wt. distribution, etc.).

Any idea what gives? For example, in your personal skiing style, do you like to get on the tips to initiate a turn, and do you strongly weight your outside ski? If so, this design would probably be ideal for you and might explain why other people do not like the feel of this model (ie, independently of other factors like damping, matching flex to weight, etc.)

Just some thoughts.

Tom / PM
post #20 of 27
The K2 Axis XP is the third gen of ski from K2 that has used the Mod structure for it's dampining and I think the have a good thing going! Before the Mod tech they used the "brain" the light that would light up to expend energy created through vibration, This was done in the "four" and the merlin series. When the First "Mod" and "Mod X" were released they were using a 12 MM mod structure and the piezo (brain) together for dampining. I skied both the Mod and the Mod pro that year and they were damp, in my opinion too damp. The Second year they got rid of the piezo and keep the 12 mm mod structure and the ski felt more lively but still gave only hints of real feedback as to what was happening under your boots. This was the case in last years skis both the Axis series and the Mach series. This year the K2 line has an even smaller Mod structure. The new set up is a 8mm Mod dampining structure. This is the same as what has been used on the race stock skis the past few years. I felt that this brought the skis back to life a little more. They still feel more damp to me than some other skis such as atomics but are not as damp as they have been the past few years. To me they have found the right mix!
As for rebound these skis have the power to lauch you off the skis if you are right on them but they are kind enough to let people stay on for the ride. I found the more you put into your turns the more they give back. If you are making "soft turns" they don't feel as if they are extra springy but if you put some energy into your turns the skis will give it right back in the form of rebound. The rebound is more subtle than on a shorty slalom ski but it is there!
Get out there and take some turns on them then let us know what you think! [img]smile.gif[/img]
post #21 of 27
Ski Magazine rates the XP #1 in rebound in the freeride category. Keelty is probably rating them in comparison to all skis including race and carving skis which would most likely have more pop. I thought the AX Pro had really good rebound and energy, so if they are close to those, should be good. Looking forward to trying them in any case.
post #22 of 27
Here's my prediction,

The K2 Axis XP will be the most in demand ski of 02/03. I bet the popular lengths like 181 will sell out very fast. The XP fills the same niche that the XX did last year. Fairly easy to ski, turney, stable, goes everywhere, does everything, good float. I think the shape of the XP will be the next template for all-mountain skis. I bet we see a ton of similar shaped skis next year.

The XX will do really well again too, but the XP will be more popular. Lets see if I'm right at the end of the season [img]smile.gif[/img]
post #23 of 27

Finally, a skier out of Southern California has the scoop before my brethern in more ountainous locales!

I skied the Axis XP 181 (Got it from the rep for the weekend) at Mammoth last spring. There was enough crud and slop from a storm 2-3 days earlier, so I think I got a good demo over the weekend. As a basis, I also ski the k2 AXP (188) and Rossi Bandit XX (184), with many days on both skis.

Let me say first that I was super excited to get on the XP. However, that sensation left me soon after a few runs. I fully expected the XP to be a fatter AX Pro, but it is not. The XP is one hell of a dead ski. I spent half a day on the XP looking for a strong point, but it is more of a generalist than a superstar in any respect. It is a great go anywhere ski, for those who want some help in challenging conditions. It plows through muck, yet is forgiving. It can handle speed on the groomers, but it doesn't "rail" like other skis. The AX Pro is much more of an expert ski versus the XP. It is carves better and seems to plow through crud with more power and force. As alluded to earlier, the XP beats it on forgiveness and float in soft, deep snow. I prefer my '02 XX's when compared to the XP. They are much quicker edge to edge, more fun in the bumps, better on the groomed, and feel lighter in the park when boosting big airs. Oh, and to those that bag on Rossi's in the park, my brother and I have XX's that took a pounding last year, with no delams or cracks to speak of. In summary of the comparison of the XP and XX, to me it is like comparing an Escalade (XP) to a BMW M3 (XX)...both are stylish rides, but with a very different feel for the road and the driver.

I have been confused by the different erports in the ski mags where the XP is called quick and responsive. I don't think that there is much pop out of the turn, contrary to what others might think. I didn't get that at all. The 181 XP tracks long but doesn't feel like a long ski, if that statement makes any sense. They were stable enough at speed in the ungroomed, but feel a heck of a lot shorter than my 191 10.EX's!

I have no doubt the XP will be a big seller, but I am glad that I found out early that it isn't the stick for me.
post #24 of 27
I too skied the Axis XP at Mammoth last year. I skied the 174, and felt that it was a little too long for me, even though I ski the Axis X and X Pro in that length. K2 did not have a 167 in March, so I could not try it. The 174 was a beefy, stable ride. It just seemed to plow over any thing in it's path. I thought that it was probably the ultimate ski for the top of Mammoth, in terms of width, and shape. No doubt it would handle the huge range of snow conditions we get. It would probably compare more to a 177 RPM 21, than a 170 XX. The RPM is basically a beefed up XX with an integrated mounting plate. It too is a pretty beefy feeling ski. A fast skiing expert would probably prefer it over the XX. Of course, I would skip the XP, and the XX or RPM, and get an Enemy. There are quite a few of us, that feel that it is the most versatile and fun ski K2 has ever made. It will have a sreet price of around $300, and is an amazing value. I wonder if Rossi actually copied it's shape for last year's XX. Regardless, they are all great skis, an you really can't go wrong with any of them.
post #25 of 27
Oh yea, last year at Trade Fair, there was a pair of vertical sidewall Axis XPs, that were 80mm underfoot. I belive they were made in the Vashon race room. Very cool looking, but I declined to try them, as they would be way long for me. I would love a pair of those in a 167, who knows? K2 is making vert sidewall skis in China now, this is where the Seth Pistol and the Public Enemy are being made. K2 loves putting skis out mid season, so keep your eyes open!
post #26 of 27

I have noticed that you are a big fan of the shorter skis. You ski an Enemy in a 173, correct? I am working towards that shorter end, but am having a little trouble getting under the 180-cm barrier. Just a confession. I have read most of the info floating around about the Seth Pistol, but you mentioned a Public Enemy. Is that just a new name for the existing stick or is it something new to watch for?
post #27 of 27
The Public Enemy is really a 03-04 ski, although they were seen at Whistler and Timberline this summer. I would expect to see a few in shops by Feb/March. It is a wider ski than the Enemy, and has pretty different graphics. It is a seen of New York, showing subways, street scene, and finishing with Public Enemy on stage.

Yea, I guess you could call me a short ski guy. Although, Some people think I ski on skis that are to long for me (ie; David Manneter "the Maneater" "Demo Dave") I am just under 5'7" and weigh around 175 lbs. Last year I skied a 173 Enemy, 174 Axis X/ X Pro, 180 AK Launcher, and a 188 AK Enemy. I am definatly a finesse skier, not a super powerfull one. This year I plan to spend lots of time on a 160 Axis XR, and a 169 Seth Pistol.
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