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Polarized Goggles

post #1 of 26
Thread Starter 
I am looking to get a pair of polarized goggles, but when talked to Oakley a while back they told me it was impossible to create a polarized goggle lens due to the large size of the lens, and the curveture. I have become a big fan of my polarized shades when the fog sets in or in flat light, and now I want a pair of goggles with same ability to cut glare.

Anyone else heard anything similar?

Thanks,
Eric
post #2 of 26
Check this out:

http://www.murrays.com/barz/frame_colors.html

I have a prescription pair of these with polarized lenses. They are wonderful in sunlight, but very poor in flat light. I think polarization is a negative for low/flat light conditions on snow.

In flat light, I switch over to regular goggles with a yellow or pink lens.
post #3 of 26
Several companies including Bolle and others make polarized goggles. Although they are good in brighter conditons, not everyone likes them in flat light. Some people feel they mask shadows that can help give clues to terrain changes. You'll have to decide for yourself, but they are definitely available.
post #4 of 26
Eb,
Check out this site for info:

http://www.sporteyes.com/skiing.htm
post #5 of 26
I've been wearing Carrera Ultrasight polarised lenses for about 12 years now. I've gotten so used to them, that I really have a hard time skiing in anything else.

That said,
Polarisation-based glare rejection works on a fairly primitive optics model. One of the flaws is that the model assumes a horizontal reflecting surface, i.e. that every snowflake is a mirror lying flat on the ground (you are assumed to be vertical).

To see what is wrong with this assumption, if you have sunglasses that are vertically polarised then you will attenuate glare from puddles and horizontal car surfaces, but not, say, glare from the chrome side window trim of the truck in front of you, because the glare is from a semi-vertical surface, and the glare polarisation aligns with that of your glasses.

Snow is made of random reflecting surfaces, a lot of which have similar orientation to that chrome window trim.

Another trouble with the model is, of course, circularly polarised light. :
post #6 of 26
Polaroids? Isn't that what eskimos get from sitting on ice blocks too long.
post #7 of 26
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the info..I will have to do some more research.

The glasses I currently have a low-light, orangish tint and are polarized, which is why I like them in flat light (I think they are VR24 lenses for the Oakley Five 2.0s...but I am not really sure). They are similar to the persimmon lens I have in my goggles, but actually help me see in better in flat light.

A grey-polarized lens would be great for bright sunlight, but not flat light. So I guess what I am looking for is an orange-low light polarized lens for goggles.

I will check out these links and see what is available.

Thanks!
post #8 of 26
My current goggles are rose tint. I got these for when I was heading to northern Japan for a season and in a land where you literally don't see the sun for 23 days straight and there is considerable night skiing they were awesome.

In Australia they suck in all but the worst conditions. The moment the sun breaks through my eyes burn (green eyes, Physman do you think eye colour is related, It's just I've found people with light coloured eyes tend to feel the effects of the sun worse).

On the other hand, I find polarised lenses are great in most Australian conditions but not that helpful in flat light.

I don't think one lense can cover all conditions. In the market for some goggles with interchangeable lenses. Any suggestions?
post #9 of 26
Quote:
Originally posted by PhysicsMan:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by comprex:
...Polarisation-based glare rejection works on a fairly primitive optics model. One of the flaws is that the model assumes a horizontal reflecting surface ... you will attenuate glare from puddles and horizontal car surfaces, but not, say, glare from the chrome side window trim of the truck in front of you, because the glare is from a semi-vertical surface, and the glare polarisation aligns with that of your glasses. ... Another trouble with the model is, of course, circularly polarised light.
#1 - For the record, the reason that the reflection from the chrome bits mentioned is not attenuated has absolutely nothing to do with their orientation in space, but rather, is due to the fact that the sun's reflection from any metal or metalized surfaces will not be polarized one iota, whereas the sun's reflection from planar dielectric surfaces (eg, plastics, water, etc.) can be strongly polarized, and hence can be attenuated by a crossed polarizer (ie, your polarized sun glasses).

#2 - One rarely runs into circularly polarized light in ordinary life. OTOH, this big blob called "The Sun" put out completely randomly polarized light, and that can not be selectively attenuated by polarized sun glasses until it first bounces off a dielectric and becomes at least partially polarized. The microscopic particles in a clear blue sky comprise a nice dielectric medium, and that's why polarized sun glasses work so well on such a sky.

#3 - Your main point about the basic assumptions behind polarized sunglasses being horizontal (dielectric) surfaces, a sun somewhere near the zenith, etc. are on the mark.

Tom / PM
</font>[/quote]#1 You are too entirely right PM, I was trying to simplify the visual and wound up making a false statement I should have mentioned the vertical side glass instead.
post #10 of 26
Bec, so you're wearing rose-tinted spectacles? Great!
post #11 of 26
Bec -

1) Re eye sensitivity and iris color ... I can't speak scientifically on this, but it certainly seems true from my personal experience as well. I've got blue eyes and red hair, and my eyes are extremely sensitive to light. It's the same for a lot of other fair skinned people that I know. I'm sure the correlation has been studied by someone.

2) Rose colored glasses => another [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

Tom / PM
post #12 of 26
Carrera makes polarized goggles. I have been wearing them for the past few years. I warmer day's I'll wear my Maui Jim's. Anybody hear have a pair of them?
Becareful when you buy polarized goggles, make sure you test them first. I saw some cheap prices on them, but when I tested them they were polarized wrong. They only worked when they were sideways. Know wonder they were less then 1/2 price.

For low light I have pink lens, that I use.
post #13 of 26
Quote:
Originally posted by comprex:
...Polarisation-based glare rejection works on a fairly primitive optics model. One of the flaws is that the model assumes a horizontal reflecting surface ... you will attenuate glare from puddles and horizontal car surfaces, but not, say, glare from the chrome side window trim of the truck in front of you, because the glare is from a semi-vertical surface, and the glare polarisation aligns with that of your glasses. ... Another trouble with the model is, of course, circularly polarised light.
#1 - For the record, the reason that the reflection from the chrome bits mentioned is not attenuated has absolutely nothing to do with their orientation in space, but rather, is due to the fact that the sun's reflection from any metal or metalized surfaces will not be polarized one iota, whereas the sun's reflection from planar dielectric surfaces (eg, plastics, water, etc.) can be strongly polarized, and hence can be attenuated by a crossed polarizer (ie, your polarized sun glasses).

#2 - One rarely runs into circularly polarized light in ordinary life. OTOH, this big blob called "The Sun" put out completely randomly polarized light, and that can not be selectively attenuated by polarized sun glasses until it first bounces off a dielectric and becomes at least partially polarized. The microscopic particles in a clear blue sky comprise a nice dielectric medium, and that's why polarized sun glasses work so well on such a sky.

#3 - Your main point about the basic assumptions behind polarized sunglasses being horizontal (dielectric) surfaces, a sun somewhere near the zenith, etc. are on the mark.

Tom / PM

[ October 20, 2003, 12:49 AM: Message edited by: PhysicsMan ]
post #14 of 26
eb,
I have Fire lenses for my Oakleys. They're not polarised, but work excellently in flat light and in bright light.

If you can get a pair and check them out, you'll see what I mean!

S
post #15 of 26
I share your curiosity eb..

I can't stand skiing in low or flat light conditions. I recently bought a pair of relatively inexpensive polarized sunglasses, and they seem excellent for eliminating glare. I always figured that polarized lenses would be the best solution for flat light snow conditions..

Maybe someone a little more knowledgeable cough.. PM.. cough could shed some "light" onto the question if a polarized lens is theoretically a good solution for so called "flat" light conditions.

I was also wondering if a goggle existed that could cure my flat light woes.. I ski now with Briko Thram Matic plus lenses, they're kind of "pinkish", and they work well in most conditions, but I still want better vision in flat light!

Keep the suggestions coming!
post #16 of 26
Just one more comment. I wear glasses. I have yet to spring for the prescription insert or lens for goggles. I wear an OTG (over the Galsses) goggle. In flat light I wear my yellow/bronze google lens over my plain glasses. In very bright light, I wear my polarized presciption sun glasses. If it is bright, but I want my goggles anyway (very cold, windy day or eyes just feeling sensitve etc. I wear my OTG goggles over my Polarized sunglasses. This gives me the eye relief I want, and the bronze color still helps with contrast. Goggles under glasses are a bit of a pain, (inconvenient, foggy etc. but it can be done and it works out). I have been thinking about contacts for skiing, but I can't quite take that step yet. Just can't get used to the whole contact idea, but I might. Anybody else use contacts just for skiing?? What do you think of them?
post #17 of 26
Thread Starter 
I am thinking that the reason my Oakley's (sunglasses - polarized for low light) do so well in fog is that what actually causes the inability to see in fog are the reflections of the particles present in the air (the fog/snow). As for flat light, I tend to think that it is also somehow related to reflected light in very low amounts.

When I ski with the persimmon lens in my A-frame goggles, I can see almost as well, but not quite. They are a bit brighter, but not as clear as the sunglasses. Overall, I am quite happy with the persimmon goggles, but I would still like to see a little bit better.

Now this is totally un-scientific, and based on pure speculation, but it seems to hold true when I ski here in the PNW (at Crystal or Mt Baker). In the end it really doesn't matter to me why they work, only that they do. Conditions get really foggy here quite often, and sometimes I don't know which way is up. I get vertigo/dizzy when its really thick, and there are no trees/landmarks to help guide me - and it sucks.
In an ideal world I would be able to get the same lens for my Oakley goggles as I have in the glasses. I would expect the lens to be pricey though.

I also where the sunglasses in the sun and they kick ass - much less glare and I can really see the terrain.

[ October 20, 2003, 04:47 PM: Message edited by: eb ]
post #18 of 26
Quote:
Originally posted by RiDeC58:
Anybody else use contacts just for skiing?? What do you think of them?
Little story to go with that... A few years ago when I was still racing we trained gates one night per week. Me being nearsighted, I had just recently started wearing glasses but didn't like wearing them at all for skiing. Following a run in our training course, I proceeded to ski down the rest of the trail to the lift as usual. Unfortunately the good people in hill management decided to put a small terrain park on the side of the trail where there hadn't been one in the past. Much to my surprise (and chagrin), I found myself in the air after hitting a roller. The first part of me to make contact with the snow was my face. I hadn't seen ANYTHING that told me a set of rollers were there.

A few stitches, a mild concussion and a pair of broken goggles later, I decided that skiing without corrective lenses (especially at night) is NOT a good idea. I started wearing contacts for skiing and loved them. It made a huge difference in the way I could pick up terrain features and a better line in a course. Now I wear them essentially everyday of the week. So would I recommend them? You bet!
post #19 of 26
oakley "a" frame with H.I. lenses
post #20 of 26
I second Oakley's with HI (or clear) lenses for flat light.
post #21 of 26
I have SPY goggles with bronze lenses which work excellent in all conditions, and I have Smith glasses for sunny days which are great too. Having had 3 pairs of Oakley sunnies I will never buy another pair, I think they are way overpriced for the quality of the product, I broke the arms 3 times on my eye jackets then threw them in the bin Then I bought some Dragon Box sunnies and the lense coating started peeling off after about 12 months then the frame broke in half, so they went in the bin too. Since I've had the Smith's they have been perfect and will never buy anything but glass lensed sunnies from now on.
post #22 of 26
When it comes to goggles for low light conditions there is only one brand. Carrera.

You will not find a lense as good it. There is simply nothing in its league.

I have had many pairs of goggles over the years and this is the best.
post #23 of 26
Here is my two cents worth. As a cinematographer/photographer, (and skier) I use polarizing filters in front of my camera lenses quite often. I also wear polarized sun glasses (glass, not plastic) and swear by them. Polarized lenses (glass or plastic) work in the same way that polarizing lense filters do. They increase contrast, increase color saturation, and help to remove reflection or glare. They are totally dependant on the angle of light and orientation of the polarized lense itself. In other words, if you wear a polarized lens and tilt your head from side to side, you will see reflections appear and disappear. This is the orientation of the lense itself. If the light source is behind you at about 45 degrees, and the lense is orientated to fully polarize, the results are quite stunning. If you turn 180 degrees around and tilt your head, or re-orientate the lense, the effect disappears, and the polarized lens has almost not effect. Thus, in flat light conditions, there is very little reflections to deal with, and the light sourse is extremely non directional, rendering a polarized lens almost useless, other than its ability to increase contrast. But even a plain grey lens will increase contrast. Polarized lenses are great on sunny days, and when you are in just the right position, they are incredible to look through. : I find them a must for driving as they remove a lot of windshield glare.

I would highly recommend quality polarized lenses (which do differ in quality by very large degrees) for sunny ski days. Just keep a good pair of yellow or rose goggles around for flat light. Unfortunately, if its foggy enough, even those don't help. :
post #24 of 26
One thing I found with the polarized Maui Jims, is there great for driving when it's snowing during the day time, or foggy days.
Polarized is the way to go... I'm sure they are all close check out Maui Jim's next time your in a store that carries them. You may be impressed.

They make different lens for different light and they can make that to your perscription.

[ October 22, 2003, 12:10 PM: Message edited by: smithby ]
post #25 of 26
Briko Icarus w/Thrama Matic Plus for gray & flat light days. About as good as it gets. Bluebird bright days I use Briko Reflex mirriored: Fabulous!

I skied in Carrera's for many years. I have the newer Kimerik with Rose and polarized yellow. The rose is pretty good. The Ultrasight of old has been surpassed.

I like the Briko's the best.

I ski in contacts and they work very well!
post #26 of 26
Quote:
Originally posted by Atomicman:
Briko Icarus w/Thrama Matic Plus for gray & flat light days. About as good as it gets. Bluebird bright days I use Briko Reflex mirriored: Fabulous!
That's what I have.. The Thrama Matic Plus, and honestly for me, it just doesn't cut it when the light is flat. I find they have excellent contrast in moderate to bright light, and they're super sharp, but in flat light I'm looking for something that will bring out the rolls and terrain changes as well as a sunny day!

[img]graemlins/evilgrin.gif[/img]
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