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Difference between randonne & Tele - Page 2

post #31 of 78
Some soulful turns





post #32 of 78
Wow, I'm getting a lecture in "soul" from someone who lists Deer Valley as their home mountain? You could have at least lied and said Alta.

I'm cool and you're not. If you don't know why, you're not cool. Don't say I'm not cool, because that's not cool.

Frankly, I can't think of much more pretentious than riding lifts all day on telemark gear except maybe riding lifts all day at Deer Valley on telemark gear.

And frankly, in terms of looking back I should point out that my first telemark turns were in the Green Mountains in 1976 on wooden skis with leather boots. By 1983, I was earning every turn I made, skiing Tincan and Kickstep on Karhu XCDs with Merrill single boots. I logged three seasons of 100 day backcountry in Alaska, hiking for every turn I made. I think I was making some "decent tele turns" by then.

I still tele, when I want to travel as much as turn, but when I want to bag a peak in the coast range, I'm going to use the best tools available. Keep the hippy platitudes-soul is in the mission, not in the gear you wear. Someday, Padawan, you may learn this.
post #33 of 78
My soul is feeling just fine these days. As are my knees.

I always find in funny how it always seems to be the teleiers that feel such a strong need to defend their choosen mode of sliding. And they do it with arguements like it's more "soulful" where as the ATers argue the merits of their choosen tool.

Whatever, if you're having fun and making it down the mountain more power to ya. I love skiing with my tele friends (and making fun of them when they through around their silly little catch phrases like randonee is french for...). I've even been known to spend the day with a snowboarder or two. Nothing like watching one of them walking the traverse as you slide farther and farther away from them
post #34 of 78
hmm maybe I should clarify that the final picture I posted has someone on AT gear. Appears that trolling tired topics does work. Have I caught some filet of sole?
post #35 of 78
naw, a big ol' mahi-mahi, Lee!
post #36 of 78
Actually, Leelau, my comments were not directed toward your post. I certainly have no objection to soulful pics. Post away!
post #37 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry_Morgan
Actually, Leelau, my comments were not directed toward your post. I certainly have no objection to soulful pics. Post away!
Harry I figured as much. Especially since I thought I was blatantly tongue in cheek. Having skied at Sneer Valley I thought the idea of tele'ing there especially funny.
post #38 of 78
HM:

Sorry to burst your copernic ego, but I was not 'lecturing' you. So please spare me the amateurish hack-job of characterizing me by reading my profile. You don't know jack about me.

Oh, and the 'years of experience' thing is so freakin' pathetic. It would actually be funny if it weren't so sad.
post #39 of 78
Powdr - for someone who's living in an area that isn't currently in snow drought you seem awfully tense.

How are we tele'ers going to perpetuate the relaxed dooodz image if we do not embrace these sordid hordes of training heel wearers. We must show them the way so they understand the path to true happiness springs from genuflecting in the snow

Bend ze knee - squat to pee! wheeeeee

post #40 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Powdr
HM:

Oh, and the 'years of experience' thing is so freakin' pathetic. It would actually be funny if it weren't so sad.
I find any form of sliding on snow "soulfull" There are a few in every discipline who have tunnel vision to the point of intolerance. I just feel sorry for them and lump them into the same sorry crowd that only listens to one type of music, votes for one party, speaks one language and drinks one type of booze.

It is best to ignore them, look at your rack of skis and ask, what form of fun will I have today?

PS: I have a lot of respect for anyone with years of experience. Perhaps you don't, but I can see no earthly reason to distain it.

Newf, (whose pathetic years of experience involve as many forms of skiing as I can get time for)
post #41 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry_Morgan
Frankly, I can't think of much more pretentious than riding lifts all day on telemark gear except maybe riding lifts all day at Deer Valley on telemark gear.
I guess I don't fit your little mold. This telemark skier would gladly take riding lifts all day at a resort like DV. Sitting here hoping the power holds with the continuous freezing rain and closed resorts.
post #42 of 78
For a really good tongue in cheek explanation of the difference between randonee/AT and tele, see the video "The Dark Side," which I'm sure many of you here have already seen. This short internet video about a former tele skier, who is now just "a skier," can be downloaded at:

http://www.tahoebackcountry.net/video/default.htm

Seriously, before you venture into AT/randonee, tele, or the backcountry, for that matter, make sure you know where your'e going, the conditions, and the risks. As downhill skiers, we know how to ski. The above posts make it clear that there is really not much difference in the general construction of downhill ski and AT equipment, as far as downhill skiing goes (other than stiffness of boot, weight of skis, etc. and performance considerations). But venturing into the backcountry is very different from lift served skiing that's near a little city and where the patrol is right there. Not to be a nanny, but you do need to get some instruction about the backcountry (i.e. avy and general orienteering). I'm sure youv'e already looked into this, but it always needs to be said. Blessings in your future AT/randonee endeavors.

Doug
post #43 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by decarsu
For a really good tongue in cheek explanation of the difference between randonee/AT and tele, see the video "The Dark Side," which I'm sure many of you here have already seen. This short internet video about a former tele skier, who is now just "a skier," can be downloaded at:

http://www.tahoebackcountry.net/video/default.htm

Doug
Thank you thank you thank you
Should be required viewing for anyone mired in the tele-nazi or anti-tele school of thought.
post #44 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeLau
Powdr - for someone who's living in an area that isn't currently in snow drought you seem awfully tense.

How are we tele'ers going to perpetuate the relaxed dooodz image if we do not embrace these sordid hordes of training heel wearers. We must show them the way so they understand the path to true happiness springs from genuflecting in the snow

Bend ze knee - squat to pee! wheeeeee

LeeLau,

I generally try to stay above the fray, but when someone takes a pot shot at me (and misses by a country mile) I can't help but point out his/her stupidity.

Powdr
post #45 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Powdr
LeeLau,

I generally try to stay above the fray, but when someone takes a pot shot at me (and misses by a country mile) I can't help but point out his/her stupidity.

Powdr
strangely enough, I understand you completely Powdr!
post #46 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski_rick
My soul is feeling just fine these days. As are my knees.
Ligament rupture is common in alpine skiing. Telemarking with releasable bindings is much less likely to result in torn ACL. Telemarking strengthens leg muscles which also helps to prevent knee damage.

It is very good for people who like athletic activities that involve exercise.
post #47 of 78
http://faculty.washington.edu/mtuggy/kneeinfo.htm

You gotta see this telerod ... ugh. I've read up on 7Tms and am not convinced
post #48 of 78
OK, you called my bluff. With modern telemark equipment, the risk of ACL sprain may be comparable to alpine. My feeling is that the freeheel binding allows a greater range of motion and can't create as much torque on knee that fixed heel binding can. I also believe telemark skiing strengthens muscles in the leg which promotes knee stability and decreases risk. I only used Voile bindings for many years. They release in all directions including backwards unlike alpine bindings.

Anyway, I'm not buying the argument that alpine is BETTER for knees, something a couple of posts in this thread have implied. Of course most telemarkers don't use release bindings and are most definately at greater risk of knee sprains.
post #49 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by telerod15
OK, you called my bluff. With modern telemark equipment, the risk of ACL sprain may be comparable to alpine. My feeling is that the freeheel binding allows a greater range of motion and can't create as much torque on knee that fixed heel binding can. I also believe telemark skiing strengthens muscles in the leg which promotes knee stability and decreases risk. I only used Voile bindings for many years. They release in all directions including backwards unlike alpine bindings.

Anyway, I'm not buying the argument that alpine is BETTER for knees, something a couple of posts in this thread have implied. Of course most telemarkers don't use release bindings and are most definately at greater risk of knee sprains.
I think what earlier posters were saying was that deep knee bends are hard on their [creaky] knee joints due to the fore/aft motion, rather than the twisting motion. Not sure I agree (genuflection tends to condition knees/legs), but I see their point. It turns out for me however, that I fatigue not in the knees, but in the outside of my thighs. My knees actually feel great after skiing. As for the twisting motion, I feel that the give from the freeheel and bending boots is *usually* enough to prevent injury, and generally less stressfull on the knees than alpine skiing.

Powdr
post #50 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by telerod15
Anyway, I'm not buying the argument that alpine is BETTER for knees, something a couple of posts in this thread have implied. Of course most telemarkers don't use release bindings and are most definately at greater risk of knee sprains.
you have confused "better" with the much different concept easier.

I commented that it's harder on the knees because of the excessive movement required, in a direction that loads the quads and patellar tendon quite heavily. you can't dispute this simple fact.

I have had both ACLs reconstructed, with patellar tendon autograft.

the movements required in telemark ski turns are more stressful on the knee.

this has NOTHING to do with what happens when you crash. depending on the type of crash, alpine binders may or may not be safer... same with tele.

while the repeat lunge nature of linking tele turns might actually strengthen the patellar tendon and quads MORE than alpine would over the same number of hours on snow, I'm not prepared to risk my knees -- risk them by subjecting them to a more exhausting activity, thereby leaving the knee joint unprotected -- during the learning curve.

that's what I mean when I say it's harder on the knees. I already know alpine. why should I risk my knees learning tele?
post #51 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Powdr
I think what earlier posters were saying was that deep knee bends are hard on their [creaky] knee joints due to the fore/aft motion, rather than the twisting motion. Not sure I agree (genuflection tends to condition knees/legs), but I see their point. It turns out for me however, that I fatigue not in the knees, but in the outside of my thighs. My knees actually feel great after skiing. As for the twisting motion, I feel that the give from the freeheel and bending boots is *usually* enough to prevent injury, and generally less stressfull on the knees than alpine skiing.

Powdr
outside thighs - lateral part of quadriceps, one of the muscles that protects the knee.

tele turns fatigue the legs faster. knees are vulnerable when muscles are fatigued.

it's purely practical.
post #52 of 78
Knees are less vunerable when the leg muscles are strong. Telemark makes them strong. You do lunges in the gym. I prefer exercise outdoors while sliding down mountain. Why should you risk injury by telemarking? Same reason you risk injury alpine skiing, because it is fun and you try not to over do it or go too big or otherwise hurt yourself. Only if you want to, if you prefer alpine, it also is good exercise, I don't care what you do for fun, just enjoy your activity. Don't hide behind safety arguments though. You could ski freeheel a few hours a couple times a week to make your legs stronger. Your alpine skiing will benefit from telemark which will make you more balanced and centered on your skis. Or don't, either way is fine with me. Telemark is also a lot of fun, your friends will tell you when you are done ridiculing them and are ready to listen.
post #53 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski_rick
My soul is feeling just fine these days. As are my knees.

I always find in funny how it always seems to be the teleiers that feel such a strong need to defend their choosen mode of sliding. And they do it with arguements like it's more "soulful" where as the ATers argue the merits of their choosen tool.
I have been telemarking for 25 years. I have never felt a strong bond to the rest of the tele crowd. I am about as opposite as you can get. As a result I ski on telemark equipment a bit differently than the rest of that crowd. I have very highly refined alpine skills on tele equipment and tend to use alpine mode in the knarly stuff. In fact I generally reserve telemark turns for softer fun snow. In bumps for instance, I am definitely in alpine mode no matter how big, steep and tight they are. Same goes for narrow chutes and ice. I have found ways of extending and keeping the heels down. I have use the same techiques on alpine skis.


Quote:
Originally Posted by telerod15
It is very good for people who like athletic activities that involve exercise.
Herein lays my biggest problem with telemark skiing.
Thy burn and knee ache can be greatly reduced by using techniques that get the inside hip into the proper power position. Then its rip ho.
post #54 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by telerod15
Knees are less vunerable when the leg muscles are strong. Telemark makes them strong. You do lunges in the gym. I prefer exercise outdoors while sliding down mountain. Why should you risk injury by telemarking? Same reason you risk injury alpine skiing, because it is fun and you try not to over do it or go too big or otherwise hurt yourself. Only if you want to, if you prefer alpine, it also is good exercise, I don't care what you do for fun, just enjoy your activity. Don't hide behind safety arguments though. You could ski freeheel a few hours a couple times a week to make your legs stronger. Your alpine skiing will benefit from telemark which will make you more balanced and centered on your skis. Or don't, either way is fine with me. Telemark is also a lot of fun, your friends will tell you when you are done ridiculing them and are ready to listen.
your attitude sucks arse, chowboy. I don't "ridicule" my tele friends. WTF are you talking about?

you misread me completely. I said it's NOT a safety issue, but a conditioning and technique issue.

I'm already quite adept at alpine.

I don't know how to tele.

beginners make more clumsy moves. hence beginners do more things that are dangerous.

you ought to quit hiding behind your "tele superiority," Massengill Product Spokesperson. go back to hawking the Vinegar & Water Basic, or the Harvest Spring Floral.
post #55 of 78
I said I was superior or telemark was better?? No. I said do what you like. I prefer telemark, that's just me. But if you think beginners are the ones who are blowing out their knees, look around. Were you a beginner when you tore your knee?

Safety, conditioning and technique are inter-related. Careful telemark on an easy slope would improve your leg strength and balance. You don't need to telemark to strengthen legs or to continue to improve your skiing skills. It's probably not the best way to do either but it is fun. If telling you that telemark is fun makes me superior, I don't see how.

You said you made fun of your tele friends, maybe they aren't ridiculed, just the same I'm glad I'm not one of them. You do ridicule telemarkers here. I don't apreciate being sworn at and called names. I did not dis-repect you though I do not respect you.
post #56 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by telerod15
You said you made fun of your tele friends, maybe they aren't ridiculed, just the same I'm glad I'm not one of them. You do ridicule telemarkers here. I don't apreciate being sworn at and called names. I did not dis-repect you though I do not respect you.
I'm not sure what planet you grew up on, but "fun" is the critical word in "making fun", which puts it a good distance away from "ridicule"

ridicule is negative

making fun is positive and comic

get it?

as to whether you respect me, BFD. I don't care what you think. your opinion changes nothing in my world. perhaps you should avoid my posts if you find them so objectionable.

jeezus, what a selfrighteous maroon.
post #57 of 78
Thread Starter 
Can't we all just get along?
post #58 of 78
97% of us can.
post #59 of 78
How did you blow your knees out, Gonzo? Was it alpine skiing? Is that what makes you so angry? I feel sorry for you. You sound like a bitter, crippled old man. Please do not respond to this post unless you can do so without profanity even abbreviated. I'm from a planet where people are civil to each other, if that makes me self-righteous or superior to you, so be it.

I'm still at a loss as to what I said to upset you so.
post #60 of 78
Hi gang! Thought I'd drop in and say hello. Hey remember who used to call the instructors gang members? Oh, the good 'ole days of Epic ski. I saw Paul not too long ago. He's doing well in Eagle. Good 'ole Paul. He's still a jackass though ...he said I could say that.

Pierre, so now you're the officianado of telemark but you p-turn 80% of the time. Hmmmm. I just wanna know if you ever got those suspenders so no body has to look at the plumber's crack again.

Thatsagirl sounds like a yummy peach. A ski writer with naxos on phat luvs ...shivers down my back. Come out to colorado, girl. All my comp tickets are yours ...if your cute.

Bob Peters should be the ambassador for Epic. He's eloquent, well mannered and knows his sh*t.

Nice pics.

Gonzo, I think your the bomb. Btw, I got a Titus RacerX 100 with all the goodies this summer. I'm back on a local team and riding expert vet. I'm skinning up Copper every Tu/Th morning before work and teaching spin on M/W/F. I got new skate skis too. I'm skating after work once in a while. I'm ready to rumble! We need to hook up for some fun in Fruita and Moab this year.

What do you guys know about injuries on free heel gear? Nothing! Gonzo, I forgive you because you rock!

On a parting note, the powder has been awesome for me this year! Alta, San Juans, Beaver Creek, Wolf Creek. Yummy stuff! I think some of you are pent up and need some too. I will offer to be your personal guide for local area skiing and local's favorite lines ...if you can keep up with a silly tele skier like me. But my comps are for thatsagirl if she'll ever take my very sincere offer. Hey, a mountain boy has gotta ask if he wants ...right?

Okay, I'm done hijacking this silly thread.

Please feel free to berate me at will.
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