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Qualifications for Becoming a New Ski Instructor - Page 2

post #31 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Louie
I'd all but bet if someone like Bode Miller or any other WC racer or Professional Freestyle Competitor tried to pass a full cert test instantly comming from their respective fields (assuming they were allowed to go) they probably wouldn't pass simply because of the lack of specific lingo and their skiing wouldn't "match" what an examiner would be in search of, or they may be unable to communicate (teaching styles) in the required manor.

So I guess you either wouldn't take a lesson from these folks, or maybe with a significant discount ?

Nope - probably not even for free.... I like teachers who are racers but I have had 1 hell lesson from an Italian from Bormio - he used to race FIS & this gets repeated every chairlift ride... unfortunately he could not teach for crap despite being great at reciting certain "formulaic instructions" as to what to do... BTW he did seem to have an OK eye - just unable to communicate or to transpose what was needed into any other way to solve the problem than the one he was using...

I don't care what lenny blake does or does not do... I don't think kids that are 1-2months into teaching should have level 6 lessons...
post #32 of 47
I just completed a Level 1 CSIA certification. A Level 4 CSIA on the course related an anecdote about a couple of FIS racers who showed up to do CSIA L1. They even booked the L2 in advance assuming L1 was a 'piece of cake'.

Not sure if they got their money back on the L2 course 'cuz there weren't able to get L1.

The basic problem was not being able to demonstrate the required skills.

Regardless of the level of the instructor, a good one needs to DEMONSTRATE TO THE ABILITY OF THE STUDENT.

If a ski school throws an inexperienced/unskilled instructor in over his head, the student won't be coming back. Bad business!!!
post #33 of 47
disski---you own quote answers your question-----certification....improve(s) the chances of the instruction being good.

As to the "capable & trained" question---let me run the typical senario for a major area here in the US-
Week Long Hiring Clinic----40 hrs
Indoor/on hill clinics min. 2 weeky----(ave) 6 weeks X 3 hours--18 hours
Sitting around after work over a beer tapping peoples brains ---maybe in 6 weeks 15 hours light drinker-----25 hours moderate drinker------35 hours a ton of first year folks.

Observing others teaching along side-----10 hours.

So we are somewhere between 83 hours and 103 hours.

I think a level 8 or so skiier with 80- 100 hours clinic time would have little trouble teaching a level 6 lesson.

No where did I suggest we whould drop all certs as it does improve the chance of getting superior instruction---but again does not guarantee it.

Besides if we did drop all certification requirements you would probably never take another lesson-----

My final thoughts on this issue---------thanks everybody !
post #34 of 47
Just to make it clear, I am 100% in favor of having the certification systems remain in place for instructors. Granted you can always get a bad instructor that has his/her level 3 PSIA certification, but the opposite can happen as well (good non certified instructor). It happens in every single professional job... some are better than others... thats why some level 3 instructors are second in command at a small hill ski school... and others are out on the PSIA D-team, or out traveling teaching clinics to ski schools. Some of the best coaching i have ever gotten was from a PSIA level 2 certified instructor. He is not a good skier and cannot demonstrate to my level of ability, but he can convey what i need to perform the task at hand. A lot can be learned from observation for most people... but at some point observation gets you no where and you have to rely what is in the brain of the person teaching you. They might not be able to ski like you can, but they know how to ski; regardless of whether their ability is to par with the students or not.

Disski: I do plan on looking into coaching/teaching eventually... possibly this season or next season. I still feel like i have some things to learn before i start teaching other people exclusively.

Later

GREG
post #35 of 47
Being certified has nothing to do with being a good instructor. VSP has already said that PSIA has no critical parameters on which to be able to judge the effectiveness of particular teachers. They can only measure and evaluate their technical knowledge and their demos.

While some of my most enjoyable days on skis have been with D team guys some of my worst have been during reups with examiners. Same holds true throughout a ski school. There are level 3's who are awful and people who are not certified that are great!

I was taught and trained to ski by a guy with no certification, Pepi Stiegler. I would never have traded those experiences for anything. What a great guy. At Vail on a busmans holiday,I called up and said I want someone great all day for two days, Did they give me a level 3? No they gave me Franz Fuchsburger. I've got some powder 8 videos of us that are awesome! Those were memorable days that never would have happened if I'd "asked for a level 3" which is the war cry around here. I'd love to hear some PSIA guys on this list take him apart for his stance and then watch them get dusted in every situation from gates to bumps to deep deep snow. So much of the debate on here is just ridiculous.

Dissski, I think perhaps PSIA and certification is as much for you so that you feel confident that you are getting a good lesson. To say that you wouldn't want a lesson from Bode Miller is insane and FYI people like Deb Armstrong forced PSIA to re-write all their own rules so that they could fast track people like her to certification, skipping all of the hours required for each level and theyears in between. A great idea. SHe's now certified and a D teamer (get welll Deb) but to think that because of that she is any better equipped or prepared is silly.

One of the things that I believe makes a great ski teacher is when they themselves have had great lessons and teachers in the past who they have connected with in a meaningful way. This is almost always the case with pros like Deb, Franz etc. There are intangibles and emotional bridges that are built during a great ski lesson. These types of teachers are able to do that. A great lesson is about more than the biomechanics and the tecnical and so is skiing itself.
post #36 of 47
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by disski
I don't care what lenny blake does or does not do... I don't think kids that are 1-2months into teaching should have level 6 lessons...

btw, I don't believe you read the original post that started this thread: I'm two years into teaching with nearly 30 years of skiing (with lots of lessons). I believe that I'm quite qualified to know what constitutes a good lesson vs. a bad lesson (some of the worst lessons I've experienced as a student were from certified trainers).
post #37 of 47
Is there any hope for someone who is enthusiastic about skiing--and teaching outdoor stuff--but who lives way, way away from slopes? (Loaded question).

I mean, is it possiblle to work teaching for a few weeks, get certified,, and teach a couple of weeks a year? Would a resort even consider such a position? Or is that just too much an organizational pain for them?
post #38 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Louie
Besides if we did drop all certification requirements you would probably never take another lesson-----

!
actually I don't care what the PSIA does or doesn't do as we almost never get an american doing back to back seasons with us...

I'm much more worried about what the Canucks or Austrians do - because we do get them.... (& given the quality of the lessons I have had with PSIA cert I'll stick to them thanks)

If PSIA wants to let ski schools keep selling "professional lessons" (go with a pro springs to mind) where a young kid on a j1 visa gives level 6 lessons in his first 2 months of teaching & you guys want to support that as reasonable - then go ahead.... but it sort of suggests to me not to ever take a lesson if I am in the States unless I find myself an overseas instructor......

Go ahead - do what you wish - I'll just keep skiing with my canadians & staatlich & APSI full certs ta muchly!
post #39 of 47
I taught PT for a few years (my "day job" is in Human Resources - specializing in training and development) and I got hired because of my ability to teach, not ski.

In the 6 years I taught (at 2 different hills) I met a lot of wonderful instructors and a lot of people who should pursue other jobs. I did learn that skiing skills and PSIA pins don't guarantee that a person is a good instructor.

In fact, I found that many younger (less certified or not certified) instructors were better than their older/more seasoned peers because they had not been teaching forever... less jaded, less set in their ways, receiving more training (yes - older staff members are required to do LESS on-hill training) and, frankly, more open to new ideas and a the more progressive ideas about modern skiing.

just my 2 cents,
kiersten
post #40 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarvardTiger
Is there any hope for someone who is enthusiastic about skiing--and teaching outdoor stuff--but who lives way, way away from slopes? (Loaded question).

I mean, is it possiblle to work teaching for a few weeks, get certified,, and teach a couple of weeks a year? Would a resort even consider such a position? Or is that just too much an organizational pain for them?

Yes it is. Most areas whether it be Killington or Aspen run short of instructors during busy holiday periods such as Xmas, winter and spring breaks and they are happy to have people to help fill in during those times. Being certified certainly makes it easier to jump out to schools for short periods but a call to a ski school director explaining that you are an upper level skier who wants to teach and work toward certification should get you at least a "tryout".

Don't be put off by all of the "requirements" for certification either. Most ski school trainers or directors will certify teh hours foryou if they think you can pass.
post #41 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarvardTiger
Is there any hope for someone who is enthusiastic about skiing--and teaching outdoor stuff--but who lives way, way away from slopes? (Loaded question).

I mean, is it possiblle to work teaching for a few weeks, get certified,, and teach a couple of weeks a year? Would a resort even consider such a position? Or is that just too much an organizational pain for them?
many resorts hire folks who merely work holidays.

would a resort hire someone with no certification to do so? certainly.

would they be teaching 4-6 year olds? more than likely.

many of our new hires are folks who have taken lessons from particular instructors for a year or two.

Mid season I will have a say in our hiring and do the majority of our training. Give me an average skier with enthusiasm and the right personality and we can get their training off on the right foot. Remember "certification" is a multi stage process.

This week two applicants showed up wanting a job. The SSD was busy and sent them to me after an interview. One was an accomplished young racer and the other a very talented teli skier/boarder. Both were good skiers. I wanted to see if they could slow down the movements, were willing to learn, and were willing to listen. Both did.

I also wanted to make sure they could deal with kids, keep them safe, keep them happy, etc.
post #42 of 47
Rusty Guy----good thing they sent those guys to you........

Quote---- "The SSD was busty..........'

Can't have that kind of distraction on an interview !
post #43 of 47
Rusty,

Quote:
The SSD was busty
Please send me a picture!
post #44 of 47
I'm going to be looking for a new job! We do have a female SSD.
post #45 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty Guy
I'm going to be looking for a new job! We do have a female SSD.
Log her out of EpicSki first thing tomorrow!!!
post #46 of 47
Flowers may help......on my grave.
post #47 of 47
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty Guy
Flowers may help......on my grave.
can't believe you posted that -- hope someone doesn't print it up for distribution
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