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Tunnel Vision - Page 2

post #31 of 43

......

well put Mikewil:
post #32 of 43
The issue of 'scientific evidence' goes straight to the eloquent points that started this thread. You cannot measure better skiing as it is practiced on a daily basis at the resorts, therefore you cannot measure the teaching 'systems'. Skiing is a broad set of skills and they are all good. What I find amusing in some of the discussions is the underlying assumption that there is only one correct way to ski. In my short time as an instructor, I have seen some very strange body shapes. One progression will not work for all. One set of skills will not work for all. More importantly, most people want to ski and have fun. Only a few want to compete. Teaching a little kid to spray snow on his brother with a rotary motion accomplishes the fun goal. He may have to work to suppress that desire if he decides to become a racer, but it will always serve its purpose. I've seen grey haired people spraying snow like little kids. Tell me I shouldn't teach that skill or Ott's kick turns. Go ahead, take the fun out of skiing. Well stated, Rick. Lighten up, HH and other PMTS people. You have something in your approach of value. You don't have to belittle other elements of skiing in the pursuit of marketing differentiation.
post #33 of 43

How do you handle...

How do you instructors handle these folks (all but one never-evers) who are heading out west for a week?

Never-ever, about 32, guy, in good shape, plays tennis regularly, a little clumsy, engineer, want to think through and understand everything.

Never-ever, female, about 40, gal, decent physical shape, unsure, wants to try skiing, not planning to ski every day, wants to enjoy the "mountain experience" almost as much as spend time skiing.

Been skiing once, gal, 42, decent physical shape, last trip spent in a "death wedge" and did not enjoy lessons, plans to ski every day of the trip.

Never-ever, 54, guy, couch potato, not athletic, nervous but excited about trying skiing, looking forward to a week in a ski town.

All don't want to spend a lot of time taking lessons. They want to cruise around as soon as they can. None know anything of the different learning methodologies or have even heard of PSIA or PMTS or rotary, etc.

These are some "reality" folks, actual examples, I have know locally who have headed west to go skiing. I'm just wondering how instructors resolve their PSIA and PMTS debates into a coherent lesson when standing on the snow facing this group. If this is your group ... How do you approach 'em? How do you teach 'em?

After all, this is a practical world. And it all comes down to this.

- HT

P.S. No disrespect intended at all towards instructors--or teaching systems. I agree that the theories have to be debated and resolved to put a product on the snow.
post #34 of 43
I would imagine the instructors will address each student individually and continue on an individual basis throughout the lesson. isn't that the way it's done in most schools, with most group or semi-private classes?
post #35 of 43
HT,

Gonz is right. What has to happen here, is that you watch the students, listen to what they want, and teach them what will get to the desired outcome. It's not too difficult to have all of those people in a single lesson (okay, we wouldn't put the never-evers in with the person who has skied before) and have each one come out with a good learning experience.
post #36 of 43
Use all the "Teaching Styles" that have been a part of teaching for the past 25 years or so to cover all the ways people learn.

Then just give them a host of new skills to try. Keep 'em moving and happy.
post #37 of 43

Hmmm

I guess what I am asking is what blend of PSIA and PMTS would you use (if you would even consciously consider such) in such a situation?

Is this motley crew candidates for pure PMTS? Especially given their seemingly "we want to get to skiing and see the town" interests.


Quote:
Originally Posted by HarvardTiger
How do you instructors handle these folks (all but one never-evers) who are heading out west for a week?

Never-ever, about 32, guy, in good shape, plays tennis regularly, a little clumsy, engineer, want to think through and understand everything.

Never-ever, female, about 40, gal, decent physical shape, unsure, wants to try skiing, not planning to ski every day, wants to enjoy the "mountain experience" almost as much as spend time skiing.

Been skiing once, gal, 42, decent physical shape, last trip spent in a "death wedge" and did not enjoy lessons, plans to ski every day of the trip.

Never-ever, 54, guy, couch potato, not athletic, nervous but excited about trying skiing, looking forward to a week in a ski town.

All don't want to spend a lot of time taking lessons. They want to cruise around as soon as they can. None know anything of the different learning methodologies or have even heard of PSIA or PMTS or rotary, etc.

These are some "reality" folks, actual examples, I have know locally who have headed west to go skiing. I'm just wondering how instructors resolve their PSIA and PMTS debates into a coherent lesson when standing on the snow facing this group. If this is your group ... How do you approach 'em? How do you teach 'em?

After all, this is a practical world. And it all comes down to this.

- HT

P.S. No disrespect intended at all towards instructors--or teaching systems. I agree that the theories have to be debated and resolved to put a product on the snow.
post #38 of 43
I would say, then, that the choice of instructor (accompanied usually by a strong list of recommendations) is more critical than the question of with what system that instructor is identitified.
post #39 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzostrike
I would imagine the instructors will address each student individually and continue on an individual basis throughout the lesson. isn't that the way it's done in most schools, with most group or semi-private classes?
Gonz, your post made me start a new thread about teaching in the rain, read it.

....Ott
post #40 of 43

I think this may help

What I am driving at is...I am trying to see where PMTS fits into an instructor's bag of tools when "normal" people come to a mountain, with no experience, and sign up for lessons.

The group I described above is, I would think, a typical group--expecially for a resort where people tend to travel for vacations. I can appreciate the pure hope, in theory, that it would be great to get folks to carving and on their way to becoming good skiers. But I am concerned that a dogmatic approach against anything rotary (as I have learned it from reading herein) might get in the way of people having a good time (too technical?) and getting around on the mountain early in their skiing careers.

While I am not advocating a sloppy approach to get people out there and being dangerous to themselves and others. But I think the other end of the spectrum--lessons until carving is natural on all blues--makes skiing a harder sell and lessens the week-long vacation for skiers.

Well, no doubt, those fortunate to live within short driving distance to skiing are at an advantage to figure these things out on the hill!

Best,

- HT
post #41 of 43
I think the other thing you might be able to conclude practically is that it seems only PMTS's Head Honcho is so anti-rotary. RickH is a PMTS instructor and acknowledges that inside femoral rotation MUST occur at turn initiation, and thus it's not genuine to discredit rotary forces.

that's why I suggested that the choice of instructor might matter a whole lot more than the "school of thought" with which that instructor ostensibly is aligned.
post #42 of 43
To Quote Norm Crerar (Former/(present ?) Chief Examiner CSIA) when asked what system we taught at an area in the US where he was the director, he said "We teach Skiing".
post #43 of 43
Second thought-----I'll all but bet, if you put HH in a race course and he was really late for a gate-----you would see a whole lot of rotary in a very short time !

I've also never seen anyone ski bumps w/o rotary-----that would be interesting.
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