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volkl 5 star skid

post #1 of 27
Thread Starter 
i picked up a new pair of volkl 5 stars and skied them for the first time 3 days ago. i immediately noticed how they did not skid very well. it was very choppy. and since most of my skiing involves skidding often, i am looking for a way to tweak the ski. i am looking for a smooth skid, not a choppy one like it is now. Does anyone know how i could fix my problem? if not, i have a pair of 2004 5 stars in 175 that have been skied on for 5 runs that i am willing to sell. Any response is appreciated. Thanks. And Merry Christmas.
post #2 of 27
Probably not the advice you are looking for, but ski lessons would probably "fix" the ski.
post #3 of 27
shingl, as onyxjl implies, a choppy skid is most often a technique issue, not an equipment one. The 5*s are certainly capable of smooth skarved turns, skidded turns, and pure carves, but they may ski quite differently from skis you've had before.

You might try sideslips and other edge management drills on them to understand how little edge they need to begin to "hook up". But, I'd bet a solid lessons with your favorite level III or above instructor would make all the difference.
post #4 of 27
I agree with the above posts.
Short of that, tune the side edges to 1 degree.
But then, there is probably no reason to have the 5*s.
Since you would be turning a thoroughbred into a plow horse.
You have a good ski, get good.
post #5 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by onyxjl
Probably not the advice you are looking for, but ski lessons would probably "fix" the ski.
Thirded.

If you are unwilling to change, sell the 5* and buy a Rossi Zenith Z5.
post #6 of 27
shingl raises a valid issue. Sure, coaching always is a good idea (assuming the coach and the student are compatible). However, skis do behave differently. When I demoed the 5* and the Elan S12 Fusion in the same length on the same runs on the same day, there was no question that they both carved very well, but the Elan S12 Fusion was discernably easier to skid when I wished to skid. The 5* sometimes felt "grabby".

If skidding is all that important to your skiing, shingl, then I believe that the 5* is not the best ski for what you wish to do. That being said, a large portion of my fellow instructors (all my betters on snow) are on the 5* and love it. They have no trouble getting it to do what they want. They can skid the skis - but usually, they don't want to.
post #7 of 27
P.S. shingl, as you describe your skiing, you may want to give the Dynastar Legend 8000 a try. It can carve, but it's one of the smoothest skidders I've ever been on. Short of a true powder ski, but one of your wider mid-fats. Also, as per SKIING Magazine this month, Fischer will be sellig the brand new AMC 79. Its dimensions and claimed performance seem to be the same kind of ski as the 8000. The 5* is closer to the other end of this skidding/carving continuum - not AT the other end, though, as some of the race type skis carve like scalpels on blue ice and for mere mortals they WILL NOT SKID. NO WAY, NO HOW.
post #8 of 27
One possible way to get the ski to skid more for you without changing technique is to move the bindings back about a centimeter or two. I'm not sure you can do this with the Marker binding system for this ski. But if so give it a try. But keep in mind it changes the intended purpose of the ski. This ski is designed to carve. You will lose some short turn performance from the ski.
post #9 of 27
A friend of mine who uses a more traditional tecnique from the days of the straight skis bought a pair of the 4 Stars and he absolutely hates them. He's now on a pair of midfats with a 70mm waist and he likes them a lot better. Typically such a pair of midfats will have dimensions in the 108-70-99 range, slower to come up on edge and want to return to flat much more than a ski such as the 5 Stars. Oh, by the way, if anybody is interested in a pair of 4 Stars in a 168 that have only been skied twice for cheap money, let me know.
post #10 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by jake777
One possible way to get the ski to skid more for you without changing technique is to move the bindings back about a centimeter or two. I'm not sure you can do this with the Marker binding system for this ski. But if so give it a try. But keep in mind it changes the intended purpose of the ski. This ski is designed to carve. You will lose some short turn performance from the ski.
I would have to recommend against moving the bindings back; the tips will want to wander more, and the skis will be harder to control.
post #11 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost
I would have to recommend against moving the bindings back; the tips will want to wander more, and the skis will be harder to control.
Moving the bindings back 1 to 2 cm will not make the tips wander in any appreciable way. These skis are so easy to control that giving up a little is fine if you want to arc bigger turns with some skid. It sounds as though shingl may have purchased a ski that is somewhat beyond his ability. Faced with having to sell them or learning to ski better (which he hopefully will do over time) this is a near term alternative that could help him out. I've been doing this with various skis for over 30 years and can say that it has worked for me in tuning a ski so it will react more the way I want it.
post #12 of 27
Before you go changing skis, I think it would be worth trying a different tune. Beveling the bottom at 1.5 or 2 degrees and doing the side at 2.5 or 3 should make the ski less grabby. Also, have you ever had your alignment checked? If you are over-canted it will make any precise ski feel grabby. LewBob
post #13 of 27
I believe that this is a tuning issue. This ski will skid just fine. It's not a carve only product. Have a good shop (or someone who really knows their way around a pair of skis) check them out and explain your problem. They are probably overly sharp, perhaps burred. If the base bevel is at spec and there's no burr or case hardened sections of edge (a result of a less than perfect pass through the grinding process), then the skis will skid or carve dependng on what you want them to do. My wife, who skids with the best of them, but who is actually very good at picking skis, adores this ski. Get the tune right, and I bet you'll like it too. PS -- My daughter, a very strong skiing ex-racer who can carve with the best of them, skied on her mother's skis today on some fine New England boiler plate and said that they were great. The last thing you should do is dump the skis.
post #14 of 27
As LewBob points out you can ruin - er, I mean detune the performance of any ski by adjusting the edge bevels to suit your personal preferences. It could be that all you need to do is slightly dull or deburr the edges with a gummy stone. A good way to do this is to take the gummi with you when you are on the hill and test drive the skis after a pass or two with the gummi stone to see if it improves the feel of the skis any for you. Also skis do not always leave the factory with correct edge tune. Assuming that the skis are flat (not always an accurate assumption), It is not too difficult to check the bevel angles and change them using hand tools. I wouldn't let any one near those new skis with a stone grinder, have someone who is competent with hand tools take a look at them.
post #15 of 27
Alright, I'll add to the confusion. First rule, if my skis don't work right, I take a lesson. Try the tune too, but as I recall, Volkls have a pretty dependable factory tune. Next, if you still aren't happy, sell 'em and get something else. I've done this twice, once buying the exact same ski in a different length. I have the 5*s and the Dynastar 8000 as well. With a little practice and decent technique the 5* is an easy ski to ski but it wants to carve and can really rail. The Dynastar is more versatile and amazingly easy to ski- perhaps you could demo the blue one, the 4800, I think, which is relitively narrow wasted like the 5* Good luck. It don't pay to fight your equipment.
post #16 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by shingl
i picked up a new pair of volkl 5 stars and skied them for the first time 3 days ago. i immediately noticed how they did not skid very well. it was very choppy. and since most of my skiing involves skidding often, i am looking for a way to tweak the ski. i am looking for a smooth skid, not a choppy one like it is now. Does anyone know how i could fix my problem? if not, i have a pair of 2004 5 stars in 175 that have been skied on for 5 runs that i am willing to sell. Any response is appreciated. Thanks. And Merry Christmas.
Assuming there is nothing wrong with the tune .....not being able to skid is a user error. Take a lesson from a pro and develop your balance and then your edging skills. Skiing 101.

I have been skiing 5 stars for the past 2 seasons and while they are designed to carve rather than ski, I have no problem "piloting" these skis into whatever level of skid or carve I desire or need.

Sounds like the handicap golfers who buy a $500 driver and expect that will solve their awful swing problems...same with skis. A great ski will not make a great skier....however, it will make a great skier better. Conversely, a great skier will still be a great skier no matter what the ski.
post #17 of 27
While my first post was perhaps a little blunt, I think it would be the best solution for him.

If shingl sells the 5*'s at a loss, and then has to buy a new ski (which he will likely have the same problem with), the loss + tax alone is probably going to add up to more $ than taking one or two lessons.

The lessons will most likely "fix" the ski (the added enjoyment of skiing is free), who knows if buying another ski or detuning it will.
post #18 of 27
I would bet that the skis have a hanging burr and that is the reason they feel choppy when slipped. The suggestion of taking them to somebody that is competent with hand tools is a good one. In the interim, if you have a diamond stone run it square to the base edge , with thumb pressue right over the edge. Make a few passes on the side edge as weel with the stone at a 90 degree angle.
post #19 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by roundturns
I would bet that the skis have a hanging burr and that is the reason they feel choppy when slipped. The suggestion of taking them to somebody that is competent with hand tools is a good one. In the interim, if you have a diamond stone run it square to the base edge , with thumb pressue right over the edge. Make a few passes on the side edge as weel with the stone at a 90 degree angle.
I think you are getting good advice here. Start by making sure there is not a problem with the state of the skis. Maybe the shovels are concave, too sharp, burrs, etc. I good shop can make sure they are ready for duty. You should also have your boot alignment checked.

If all is right with the skis and alignment a lesson or two might help. If the skis are in need of work, and/or your boots leave you overedged the lesson won't help much.

I am curious: why does your skiing involve so much skidding? Do you want to change that and learn how to put more carve in your technique? LewBob
post #20 of 27
Thread Starter 
thanks to all the advice, the good and the not so good. I appreciate hearing different points of view. First off, while I am sure i could gain something from a lesson or two, i dont believe i need one. I've been skiing 22 years, have skied all over and have zero problems with anything you can find on the mountain, excluding a cliff or two. before switching to the 5* i was on G3's. i liked them, but they werent so great in the bumps. those skis had no problem skidding. And i suppose i don't skid all too often. but when i am on an easy groomed run i like to make short, quick turns, and it seems a bit uncomfortable to do with the 5*'s, due to me wanted to skid at the end of each turn. living in NJ i don't get to challenge myself all too often with difficult runs and am forced to ski somewhat easier slopes than i would normally like. Hence my immediate notice of the ski being choppy at the end of each turn.
LewBob-i am willinng to change my technique a bit, but it really works for what i like to do best (steeps and moguls).
post #21 of 27
I've skied them alot. They are not mogul skis. They do not want you to skid turns - why do you want to skid turns? BAaaaah.

They are rockets - they aren't meant to make skid turns. I'd say you didn't demo them, did you?
post #22 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsimeral

Sounds like the handicap golfers who buy a $500 driver and expect that will solve their awful swing problems...same with skis. A great ski will not make a great skier....however, it will make a great skier better. Conversely, a great skier will still be a great skier no matter what the ski.
Some great skis will make questionable skiers worse.
post #23 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by shingl
thanks to all the advice, the good and the not so good. I appreciate hearing different points of view. First off, while I am sure i could gain something from a lesson or two, i dont believe i need one. I've been skiing 22 years, have skied all over and have zero problems with anything you can find on the mountain, excluding a cliff or two. before switching to the 5* i was on G3's. i liked them, but they werent so great in the bumps. those skis had no problem skidding. And i suppose i don't skid all too often. but when i am on an easy groomed run i like to make short, quick turns, and it seems a bit uncomfortable to do with the 5*'s, due to me wanted to skid at the end of each turn. living in NJ i don't get to challenge myself all too often with difficult runs and am forced to ski somewhat easier slopes than i would normally like. Hence my immediate notice of the ski being choppy at the end of each turn.
LewBob-i am willinng to change my technique a bit, but it really works for what i like to do best (steeps and moguls).
G3s are a lot easier to skid than the 5 stars with more sidecut. I just skied mine all day today and had no problem making them do whatever I needed to do....carve or skid.

Maybe it is the tune.....easy enough to check and correct. If there is no base bevel or the skis are "railed" or concave any ski will ski like a train on a track.
post #24 of 27

5 stars

I ski the 5 stars and they will slip, carve, spin, ect, if you know how to release and engage the edges. Please take a lesson from a certified instructor. If you decide on another ski, please buy a shorter ski. Between a 160 and 168 would be better for you. Unless you weight 300 pounds and are 6'10" tall. With 175's, that's a lot of edge on the snow, tip to tail. They would be too long for me. good luck!
post #25 of 27
5*s will side slip, AND skid easily. However, they like to edge and carve if you put them on edge. If you over-pressure them while on edge, eventually the edge will give. Instead of a smooth skid, you will end up with a chattering ski. That's because the ski wants to get back onto the carve mode.

To skid smoothly, you need to concentrate on keeping a flatter ski. Put them on too much an edge, and they will chatter.

First take them to a shop to ensure the base is flat, and edges are to spec and not burred. Then take them on to the slopes and practice sideslipping on them. Sideslipping practice will teach you the finer nuances of skidding the 5*.
post #26 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac
Oh, by the way, if anybody is interested in a pair of 4 Stars in a 168 that have only been skied twice for cheap money, let me know.
Mac,
I'd be interested. my address is: band (hat) catalysismusic (dott) com
post #27 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac
if anybody is interested in a pair of 4 Stars in a 168 that have only been skied twice for cheap money, let me know.
If it's not gone... I am interested. gardariki () gmail () com
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