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Wax Wizard/Whizard and hot waxing

post #1 of 21
Thread Starter 
For those of you who use the Ray's Way Wax Whizard/Wizard, how often do you hot wax with an iron? Does the Wizard relegate your waxing iron to the scrap heap, or do you occasionally still do a hot wax?

I used to hot wax before each ski day. But based on a conversation with Mike/SkiDoc at one of his tuning clinics last week (thanks, Mike!), and on others' experience (see http://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?t=18270), I'm planning on using the Wax Wizard this year.

Should I still do an occasional hot wax? If so, how often?
post #2 of 21
I use the Wax Wizard for topical wax applications over a good hot wax for several ski days, until one of the following:

1. The base starts to appear at all abraded.

2. I need a major change in wax and the topical coat is not worn off, i.e., LF10 the last time out and it is now cold enough to require a CH6, for instance.

3. The bases need cleaning with a hot scrape
post #3 of 21
I have spoken to Mike alot about this.

He is against people ironing because of the possible damage they can do to the base from burning and overheating the ski.

I think that both methods have their place.

I usually will hotwax after about 3-4 days on the snow but will use the wax wizard before every ski day between ironing. If the bases get really abraded from hard, cold, manmade conditions then I may iron more often.

I asked Mike what about hotscraping to clean the ski and he beleives that most ski bases do not pickup that many contaminents to warrant a hotscrape.

Personally I hotscrape before applying new wax with an iron.
post #4 of 21
I too was talked/threaded into the Wax Whizard by the skidoc. I'm still not sure. i have a hard time really believing that the line point really heats the wax up as he says it does, because it sure doesn't feel hot. It also takes a lot more elbow grease to rub it in than ironing/scraping/brushing.

Dogma sometimes is convincing, but when people are SO INSISTENT on their opinions, you have to wonder. Yes he IS incredibly experienced and knowlegeable, but so are many other World Cup tuners, all who still seem to hot wax - and aren't so afraid of damaging their skis.

Mike may be ahead of his time, or he may just be pushing something he's high on right now. To me the Wax Whizard is a neat tool to supplement hot ironing, but hot ironing still seems to get the job done better. I am much more careful after his warnings not to burn the base, don't get me wrong. Pull up on the iron, don't do more than maybe one long pass after initial melting/coverage.

Mike talks of how smart Ray is, but does he promote using Ray's other methods? For example sanding the base with the same basic tool - no.

So I'll experiment with both this season, but am just unwilling to dump my iron and the teachings of so many other great tuners.
post #5 of 21
I've also talked to Mike and am a little skeptical, although I'm much more careful when hot waxing and making sure the wax iron is just hot enough to melt the snow.

It just seems to me that the accursed "burning the base" could occur from any heat source, either an iron or through friction and burnishing. I also wonder, if this is truly the revolution in ski tuning, as to why techs continue to hot wax? Anyway, I still hot wax but I use much more wax than I did formerly and I'm careful with the setting on the iron.

Tom
post #6 of 21
Thread Starter 
Don't most techs use a hot waxing machine that is very fast and easy?

Mike told me there's still a place for hot waxing, but that the wizard is an easier, safer way to achieve similar results. I'm just wondering what balance I'm going to use this year.

(If anyone is wondering why Mike is not chiming in, I think his computer is down, as of late last week anyway.)
post #7 of 21
Yeah Mike never said to not hot wax but he likes the wizard because it is quick, easy, cheap, and safe.

Like I said, I use it inbetween hot waxing or when travelling. Sometimes you only ski a half day or your bases didn't lose alot of wax and a hotwax is a waste. Somtimes I switch skis so they are barely used after a full tune.

Waxes like the Dominator base renew wax needs to be ironed into the base as it cannot be corked.
post #8 of 21
ok, so call me dumb, but what is this wax wizard?
post #9 of 21
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homep...ay.waxwhiz.htm

i won't call you dumb, this is not exactly a mainstream well known thing.
post #10 of 21
I know I'm not going to spend hours rubbing wax into my bases when I can do it in 5 minutes with an iron. I've got more important things to do with my time, like tune all 20 pair of my demos.
post #11 of 21
Yeah, I find the wax whizzard to be a lot of work actually. even ironing and scraping, brass than horsehair brushing takes less work then rubbing in the wax with the wiz.
post #12 of 21
Thread Starter 
that's odd. when I watched Mike do it, it was *much* faster than a hot wax. a hot wax, cool down, scrape, brush, etc. typically takes me at least 30-45 minutes from start to finish. it took Mike less than 5 minutes per ski to use the Wax Wizard (they were junior skis, but it still wouldn't take that much longer for adult skis). and I don't believe he brushed afterwards--it was ready to go.
post #13 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by skidiver
that's odd. when I watched Mike do it, it was *much* faster than a hot wax. a hot wax, cool down, scrape, brush, etc. typically takes me at least 30-45 minutes from start to finish. it took Mike less than 5 minutes per ski to use the Wax Wizard (they were junior skis, but it still wouldn't take that much longer for adult skis). and I don't believe he brushed afterwards--it was ready to go.
my comment really had to do with effort not time. It took a lot of pressure and a lot of passes to push the wax into the base, good exercise yes, but harder than I'd anticipated.

With hot wax I'll wax one ski, put it aside and do work on another ski or more, and tend to find ways to use the time while waiting for the wax to dry. Total time not including waiting might be longer than 5 minutes per ski, so possibly a little longer than wizzing it, but IMO easier.
post #14 of 21
Long time skiier/newby tuner here....

I'd like to learn how to do a quick edge & wax at the end of the day. Would y'all recommend Ray's system or going with traditional methods?

Please keep in mind that I've attended one or two tuning seminars at the local shop but haven't done it myself. So you can't keep it too simple.

thanks in advance.
post #15 of 21
Diamond stones for the edges (rough than medium), ptex if you need it for the base, hot wax - plastic scraper, brass brush, optionally then a horsehair brush - is what I do.
post #16 of 21
Thread Starter 
squeaky,

I don't know much about Ray's other tuning gear. in the tuning clinic I went to, the tech showed us how to maintain the edges with a diamond stone, either freehand or with a Multi Tuner or side edge tool. he used the Wax Wizard, but used traditional tools for edge maintenance. it was pretty quick and simple, and I plan to use that technique (with a multi tuner) once I get my skis back from their shop tune next week.
post #17 of 21
thanks. I like the idea of a multi tuner so that I don't need to mess with bevels, etc.
I generally request a 1 by 1 deg bevel.
any in particular that you recommend?
How about a good source for good stones & edge tools?
post #18 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiMangoJazz
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homep...ay.waxwhiz.htm

i won't call you dumb, this is not exactly a mainstream well known thing.
I'd never heard of this before either; checked out the link... looks like a small operation w/ handmade tools.

I dunno. I think I'd sooner trust my skis to tuning tools from established companies, e.g., Swix, FK, Spirakut, etc. You can get basic tuning tools (base/ edge guides, files, stones, etc.) from these companies for not much more than the "Ray's Way" tools.

I don't understand how the "Ray's Way" method of rubbing wax into the bases could be better than ironing in wax: don't you want the heat from the iron to get the base pores to open up & absorb wax ? Seems to me that rubbing wax in with a PVC tube wouldn't generate enough heat. (Although, I am aware that you can cork in wax, but I've never done this, and have heard that wax applied this way doesn't last all that long.)
post #19 of 21
Thread Starter 
I just received my multituner, and it looks ok. being made of plastic, it certainly doesn't look terribly precise (the pricier SVST Final Edge is probably the best on that count, for base edges), but it should do the job for minor maintenance.

Mike/Skidoc swears by a 1 degree base bevel and a 3 degree side bevel, though it may depend somewhat on the skis, I suppose. that's what he's putting on my Heads right now. if you search under the username skidoc you'll find several of his posts on the subject.

my favorite source for tuning gear is artechski.com, but race-werks.com, tognar.com, and proformskiing.com/ all look good, too. I have placed two orders with Artech and they have come just as ordered and shipped out very fast (within a day both times). I've also had good email response from them on questions.
post #20 of 21
The reason it's recommended is that ironing can damage the bases by burning them, thus actually making them unable to hold wax. If you're careful with the iron, pull up on it while you use it, don't keep it on the base for too long, etc. it should be fine.

As to El Chupacabra - there are a lot of great sources of tools, http://www.tognar.com has a great catalog with a lot of tips and techniques, I buy a lot from them. http://www.fktools-us.com is also good as is http://www.reliableracing.com and there are more.
post #21 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiMangoJazz
The reason it's recommended is that ironing can damage the bases by burning them, thus actually making them unable to hold wax. If you're careful with the iron, pull up on it while you use it, don't keep it on the base for too long, etc. it should be fine.

As to El Chupacabra - there are a lot of great sources of tools, http://www.tognar.com has a great catalog with a lot of tips and techniques, I buy a lot from them. http://www.fktools-us.com is also good as is http://www.reliableracing.com and there are more.
Agreed -- I like tognar, artech, and reliable racing. Tognar's catalog is well worth reading too -- lots of little tips here & there on tuning. (For any bicyclists out there, the Tognar catalog looks a LOT like the Third Hand bike tool catalog; wonder if the same folks are behind both companies.)
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