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lifter for motherships

post #1 of 18
Thread Starter 
i was wondering if lifters were a "requirement" for these fatties because i hear that they are hard to get on the edges on groomers without them.
post #2 of 18
Lifters on fatties... What a waste of a fat ski... If you plan on spending that much time on the groomers where you'd even consider such a thing, then you should just sell the Motherships and get something more versatile.
post #3 of 18
Thread Starter 
well i am not going to be on groomers much at all but when i have to be i just wanted to know if was a good idea to have em. obviously it isn't so thanx.
post #4 of 18
Thread Starter 
they would be more or less for when i go to the park with em
post #5 of 18
No lifters on powder or park skis.
post #6 of 18
I like some lift on my fat skis, but not a lot. The standard lift provided on Salomon 912s or Look Pivot Lifter bindings is plenty. Anything more than that is excessive and makes the ski wobbly in powder.
post #7 of 18
Thread Starter 
sweet thanx because i am going to buy some 912's and thats all i needed to know
post #8 of 18
If it's all you need to know you're good, but on the other hand lift on fatties is essential and has no negative impact in powder. Just put 25mm+ on Atomic fatboys and they're a blast. Without they were miserable as soon as anything got slightly firm. Rippin' mid thigh powder last week and when got them on the wind slab or lower groomers they were great without lift they sucked. If you want to land tricks in the park tone it down to not stress the knee. But the ski is fat you need to get up to it's pivot point to work it and the stability of the fat will spare the knee torque the lift would give on a skinnier ski.
post #9 of 18
Thread Starter 
so even with 912's will i need a lift and if so how much because i will be in the park a little when the snow sucks
post #10 of 18
The 912 Ti comes with 25mm of lift. Adding any more will make the ski less stable when landing jumps.
post #11 of 18
The more lift the better egde hold, but the higher your CG. It's all a trade off.
post #12 of 18
If helps if you sharpen the edges - because most new and recent powder skis are parabolic/shaped. I sharpen my powder ski edges from both snow contact points (tip and tail). A moderately-sized lifter (below 30mm) will help you edge and carve packed powder, crud, and Western hardpack on cruising runs, steeps, trees, etc. Sharpening the edges aids some if you have a fat twin-tip.

That's why I don't like the Sugar Daddy - it requires a designated Atomic binding, which is basically a very heavy ESS binding. The plate for the binding is too high, plus any Atomic binding adds the height of the lifter. I have heard of people (mostly in Europe) who have taken off the plate for alpine touring bindings. The Atomic TM Daddy has the same dimensions as the Sugar Daddy, only with a softer and rounder flex for telemark skiing - but it doesn't have the designated Atomic binding plate.

[ December 01, 2003, 10:01 PM: Message edited by: powdog ]
post #13 of 18
dude, try to demo some fat skis, any fat skis, with riser plates (in addition to the normal lift on any freeride type binding). Then ski the same fatties without plates. In powder and most soft snow conditions, the risers will make the skis LESS STABLE due to a higher center of gravity. Why do you think all the freeride bindings on the market don't have extreme amounts of lift?

If I were you, I'd get some Look/Rossi binders with wide brakes and NO lifters.

On the other hand, if you ski groomed, packed terrain mostly, then the risers will help you get on edge quicker and provide more leverage on hardpack, but like I mentioned in my first reply, you might as well get some mid-fats for doing that kind of skiing. Be aware that most (all??)risers consist of a plate that runs between the toe and heelpiece which increases the longitudinal stiffness of the skis to certain degrees, thus taking away flex of the ski under your foot in softer snow conditions. Most off-piste/touring skiing is done in soft snow. On extreme, steep terrain (soft snow or not), you are already almost on edge, so lifters are not needed. If you catch a lot of air, you will appreciate having the softness under your feet when you land.

You could also mount your bindings about 1/2-1 cm forward which would help you get on edge quicker.

[ December 02, 2003, 09:29 AM: Message edited by: mr x ]
post #14 of 18
I always thought it was pretty universal to recommend no lift for powder skis, but a few weeks ago I was at the Deep Powder House looking at Rossignol 120 bindings. I said I wanted the version with no lifter plate and the guy working there said no, you want the lifter even for pure powder skis. No lifter is just for park. Granted there's not much of a lifter on those bindings so it's really not that big of a deal either way. I would not put some extra lifter in there that would stiffen up the skis or really raise you up though. Getting fat skis on edge on a groomer is more matter of getting used to it than anything else.
post #15 of 18
"the guy working there said no, you want the lifter even for pure powder skis"

He must work on commission.

This is one of those topics that could generate a lot of responses and a lot of opinions.

Go demo some stuff and do what works best for YOU.


[ December 02, 2003, 08:49 AM: Message edited by: mr x ]
post #16 of 18
My new powder skis are Atomic fat boys 115mm under foot. (mtn lion's the mang). I've piped off about lift on fats for a long time and mtn lion came across this old ridiculously big lifter and offered it to me with the skis. I think it was mostly a dare. I skied the skis flat and hated them. I just don't get used to that. Getting them on edge is hard and keeping them there strains my ankle and is a battle.

Mtn lion had complained in a boot fitting clinic of soreness on outside of ankle. Last year I skied R:exs for a while with no lift and it dawned on me that lack of lift is what made his ankle sore. The R:exs were less of a struggle but still the lack of lift was ruining a great ski and hurting the outside of my ankle.

I put the honkin' lift on the fats and am now 35mm from top of ski to bottom of boot. (Ski profile is thin). It rocks, the thought that they are less stable in powder is ludicrous and I proved that repeatedly last week. I'm on the fence on the stability landing especially with spins. Thing is though you really are only lining up with the pivot point of tipping the ski. This should apply equally with you applying force to the ski or ski applying force to you in an off balance landing. Being lined up with the forces should still be better.

I have been using the skis as rock skis and rippin' about in soft chunky snow with roots and twigs and rocks poking through doing short radius in bumps. No instability there either. Sugar Daddies and Big Daddies have the lift built in and no it's not just to force you to use their bindings.

I'd say anyone with reservations has to go out and try it. I don't suggest trying it in the park at least not first but powder, back country or anywhere else is good.

[ December 02, 2003, 09:35 AM: Message edited by: L7 ]
post #17 of 18
I've found that lifters on fatties create a tendency to oversteer the skis in powder, especially at faster speeds. This is not a desirable effect for me.

But... If I had ankle pain and the lifters relieved that, then you bet I would be using the lifters.

Go demo and decide for yourself.

[ December 02, 2003, 10:29 AM: Message edited by: mr x ]
post #18 of 18
Originally posted by mr x:
"the guy working there said no, you want the lifter even for pure powder skis"

He must work on commission.

Considering they were exactly the same price, I don't think that was it.

Another thing to consider is that plenty of people ski on Fritchi AT bindings, which are higher up than any lifter plate I've ever seen. They take a little getting used to (plus the ramp angle is different than regular bindings), but they work too.
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