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Salomon Binding( 912Ti ) incorrect adjustment ???

post #1 of 21
Thread Starter 
Well, I have a pair of ski mounted with the salomon TI bindings and for some reason this year I ski like crap ..lol .
So, first I changed ski boots - Ski were mounted with Tecnica XT boots , then I changed to the Diablo Race pro and the shop adjusted the bindings .
Then I went in to get a pair of the Diablo mags to use with this ski and they took the boots back and the skis to adjust them .
Now ! I thought everything was great but I noticed it has been hard to get my skis on edge and I do not feel good contact with my skis .
A) I thought it was the tune
B ) it had to be me ..lol
Then I just wanted to check to see how snug my boots are in the skis - Once I put one the boots into the bindings I noticed that under the toe there is enough space to slide a credit card plus under there ; I am not tech but I dont ever remember that space being there with my last setup .
So, am I off the mark in assuming that there should not be any space between the bottom of my boots and the plate?
If I am off the mark , I will go pursue a tune but it sure looks strange to me and it would explain the slow reation of my skis and all that slop ..lol
Please tell me I am not crazy .
post #2 of 21
There should be, according to Salomon, .5mm of space between the bootlug and AFD with slight pressure applied to lift the boot by pushing back on the cuff.

Personally, I like it a bit tighter than that.

If they didn't adjust that correctly, make sure they adjusted the simultaneous wings correctly. With a small flathead, turn the screw on the left wing counterclockwise till it stops. Insert the boot, and turn screw until it becomes noticeably tighter. Turn another 1/8 of a turn for good measure.

Next, recheck the forward pressure. Leave the boot in the binding, and check that the arrow molded into the left-bottom-rear corner of the heelpiece is somewhere within the range of scribed marks on the heel locking lever.
-Garrett
post #3 of 21
Thread Starter 

Salomon bindings

Quote:
Originally Posted by skiingman
There should be, according to Salomon, .5mm of space between the bootlug and AFD with slight pressure applied to lift the boot by pushing back on the cuff.

Personally, I like it a bit tighter than that.

If they didn't adjust that correctly, make sure they adjusted the simultaneous wings correctly. With a small flathead, turn the screw on the left wing counterclockwise till it stops. Insert the boot, and turn screw until it becomes noticeably tighter. Turn another 1/8 of a turn for good measure.

Next, recheck the forward pressure. Leave the boot in the binding, and check that the arrow molded into the left-bottom-rear corner of the heelpiece is somewhere within the range of scribed marks on the heel locking lever.
-Garrett
So, there should be that much space there ? The reason I ask is : last year when the same bindings were mounted on my Offroads , there was no space there at all and these skis feel like they dont want to respond - not quickly anyway and its hard to even skate in them .
post #4 of 21
One of the usual ways to check the toe height on the Salomon binding is to slide a sheet of paper (or a dollar bill) between the boot and the AFD. Tighten down the toe height till the paper is held tight and then back off untill you can just slide the paper out.

Yes, I know the purists out there will be horriified and there will be the usual posts about taking to the shop to test the bindings but it works!!
post #5 of 21
At that same time pull the cuff of the boot back, this way you are making sure all of the "slack" is out of the height adjustment.
post #6 of 21
Good point Phil, glad to see I am not the only one that relies on these approaches!
post #7 of 21
Are you also sure your boots are flat on the bottom? Boots are often convexed at the botttom. To test, place the boot on a flat surface without your foot in it, and see if it wobbles or if there are gaps on the outside soles of the boot.
post #8 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotsSkier
One of the usual ways to check the toe height on the Salomon binding is to slide a sheet of paper (or a dollar bill) between the boot and the AFD. Tighten down the toe height till the paper is held tight and then back off untill you can just slide the paper out.

Yes, I know the purists out there will be horriified and there will be the usual posts about taking to the shop to test the bindings but it works!!
Make the piece of paper a .5mm thick laminated card, and this would be exactly how shops check it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gator
So, there should be that much space there ? The reason I ask is : last year when the same bindings were mounted on my Offroads , there was no space there at all and these skis feel like they dont want to respond - not quickly anyway and its hard to even skate in them .
.5mm as you pull back gently on the cuff. Its not much space at all. A couple hairs width. If you want it tighter, crank it down a bit tighter. I personally do like it to be fairly TIGHT with the .5mm card in there.
post #9 of 21
NO NO These bindings should be adjusted with 0, none, nada clearance between boot and afd. I know, I used to work for Salomon and it has been that way for years. Pull back on the boot a little and adjust down to zero clearance then another half turn and you're good. Not all boots are the exact same thickness at the toe either so if you switch boots check the height.
Make sure you check the toe wing adjustments from time to time too as they loosen themselves up sometimes. Carefull not to overtighten though as to pull the boot toe back from the center butt plate. you should maintain 3 point contact.

Just an added note. the Salomon Driver bindings that wrap the upper boot sole radius in my opinion offer the best lateral accuracy particularly when edging your shaped skis or wide waisted skis because the outside edge wing is pulled up by the boot sole when tipped giving better leverage to the edge engagement.

Try this sometime you will be suprized at the differences:
Put skis into a vise with different bindings on them then put a boot in the system and wiggle the boot side to side and notice how much movement it there is without moving the ski at all. Now imagine the affect this has when skiing on hard snow. Some binding have signifantly more wobble than others.
post #10 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by bud heishman
NO NO These bindings should be adjusted with 0, none, nada clearance between boot and afd. I know, I used to work for Salomon and it has been that way for years. Pull back on the boot a little and adjust down to zero clearance then another half turn and you're good. Not all boots are the exact same thickness at the toe either so if you switch boots check the height.
Years ago and now are different things.

For years now, Salomon has provided its dealers with laminated cards that say .5mm in big text and outline the suggested method of toeheight adjustment, which is not what you suggest.

However, I do like your way better personally.
post #11 of 21
Actually, except for paint jobs and new body styles that binding has not change one iota in many years amigo!! Go to a pro race or a world cup and watch the binding techs and see how they adjust the bindings. 0, nothing, nada

Salomon had some bindings in recent years that still used the .5mm clearance but I can't think of one style now that has a standard teflon non self adjustable afd pad.

Hey, but those little cards they give you make great windshield scrapers when you're in a pinch!
post #12 of 21
I have seen alot of demo techs use the card to check the .5 on all Salomon demo bindings.

So are they all misguided?
post #13 of 21
They are following the procedures outlined in the shop practices manual. Whether or not those procedures are the "best" really doesn't matter, its about what will/will not make you look good in court when you get sued.

Also, the bindings HAVE changed. The 810/912/914 with simultaneous wing adjustment are completely different beasts than the 916 race binding and its predecessors, which spanned more than a decade. The current consumer bindings have been "this way" for several years, requiring a .5mm toe clearance the whole time.

It doesn't matter how world cup technicians are setting up bindings. You'll note that I've repeatedly pointed out that what is suggested and what is "best" are two different things. If I'm setting up bindings for a customer, I'll stick with the indemnified route thank you very much. My bindings will have no static toe clearance, if for some silly reason I'm skiing in a Salomon.
post #14 of 21
Hey All
I'm a bit confused by the sequence of posts. Let me tell you my situation and perhaps someone can offer some advice. I have s914FIS bindings (mounted on my CR LABs w/ Pro Model Boots, not sure if this matters). I had the bindings mounted by the store at which I bought them. I figured any store that carries these items would be able to mount bindings properly. After two days of moderate skiing on them (no serious bumps or steeps) my boots slipped around in the bindings both laterally and up and down. I took them back to the shop where I bought them and they did something (probably the card thing). Today I skiied on them and was having the same problem at Killington. Luckily, Salomon was having their demo day so I talked to one of the techs and he gave me some screw-drive advice though was lame and wouldn't do it for me. I tightened down the top to fix it for the day only. Tonight I adjusted the toe and used a business card as "card". I tightened ot the point where I had to tug kinda hard to get the card out. I also tightened the wings to make it snug latterally. I think I have it all set. I'm just worreid that I might have done something to radically throw off the release. Any thoughts on my situation?
post #15 of 21
I think you did exactly what you needed to do.

I also thing the shop you bought your skis from is in deep shit. That is unacceptable.
post #16 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by bszekely
Tonight I adjusted the toe and used a business card as "card". I tightened ot the point where I had to tug kinda hard to get the card out. I also tightened the wings to make it snug latterally. I think I have it all set. I'm just worreid that I might have done something to radically throw off the release. Any thoughts on my situation?
Sounds like the origonal shop dropped the ball and the Techs at the Salomon tent didn't pick it up. But the adjustments you did sound about right.
post #17 of 21
Thanks for the advice guys. I didn't want to mention the name of the ski shop online because they did give me a really good price on the entire setup. But what can I do to correct their problem without seriously screwing their name?
post #18 of 21
All Salomon bindings come out of the box with the toe height and wing adjustments on the loose side. Unfortunately because most other bindings on the market today do not have these kind of adjustments the shop techs tend to overlook these adjustments when mounting the bindings. I see it all the time.

Do what you like but adjusting the toe height and wings so there is 0 clearance works well and DOES NOT AFFECT THE RELEASE NEGATIVELY, TORQUE TEST THEM AND SEE! It's common sense. I'll bet some of you who posted that you must have .5mm of clearance because the good book says so also do not ski on the reccommended release setting for your height, weight, sole length and level of risk taker do you? You can ski with slop if you want.
post #19 of 21
bud, I only have it cause Salomon said that was how the 810/12 were supposed to be done, andthat any other way was, in their opinion, wrong.
As a side issue, leaving a slight gap means you don't have to wipe down every last piece of dirt/ice/snow off the boots before you get them into the binding.
post #20 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Pugliese
At that same time pull the cuff of the boot back, this way you are making sure all of the "slack" is out of the height adjustment.
so you pull back on the cuff when you slide the paper underneath the toe or do you only pull back on the cuff if you use a business card in which is higher than a piece of paper
i ask you this question because i last week i slid a business card underneath the boot and when i went skiing the next day i could twist out of them.
Thanks
post #21 of 21
i more question which is the best way to check the toe height
is it to use a business card or a piece of paper
and on both of these do you pull back on the cuff
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