Freeskier article, wondering what some people thought.

I think it's possible for someone to be a terrific athelete *and* a brash, loudmouthed punk. That's what I think.

I think Tanner might be a little jealous because of the media attention Bode gets here in the states, and I think he's missing the point. Both are extremely talented skiers who compete in very different areas of skiing. They should have a mutual respect for what the other does, and the skills involved. Tanner needs to understand this is the US, we revere our basketball, football, and baseball players, along with musicians and movie stars, more than skiers. Bode gets attention because he's an American winning on the WC circuit, which the media picks up as unusual. Real skiers, the audience Tanner should care about, know both are sick skiers.

Tanner Hall is a Whitefish local. arrogant snotty-nosed punk is the standard Whitefish attitude. it's all nouveau riche classless maroons up there, the kind of place where people think you can't drink coffee unless it's $5 a cup and has a foreign name.

I doubt Tanner Hall has had to work at anything in his privileged life. the kid's been a media darling since he was about 10. imagine the ego on that little brat, after over 7 years of being told consistently that you're hot $hyte.

Denver Post weighs in...

John Meyer certainly weighed in on the issue with two consecutive articles in the Denver post:

Youth ski dichotomy keys on tradition versus trendy

Freeskiing needs its race roots

Tanner can say some naive stuff sometimes. He should lighten up on the chronic.

John Meyer didn't help things by selecting Chris Anthony as an impartial opinion in the second article. Having talked to John, Chris was meant to be a joke. He should have spoken to Mike Douglas or Shane McConkey...

After riding all those rails on his twin tip noodle skis I doubt Tanner could even "make it to the bottom" of a World Cup course as he claims he could.

Lindsey Kildow is winning regularly? Does the Post lack a copy desk these days?

In 10 years, Tanner will likely be nowhere to be found...

Seems like it's a little bit of the WWF coming into the Ski World. I'm sure someone's already planning a Rahvles-Hall ski-off on pay per view.

Can't be!! Who ever heard of a spoiled, self centered athlete who thinks their whole sport revolves around them. If it's true, Hall has got to be the only one.

I agree with ssh, in a few years it will be Tanner who?

Seems to me they're two totally different disciplines. If any publicity is good publicity then Mike D and Tanner did a heck of a job

Which one of the following looks more like a world class athlete and which one looks like the young kid at your local terrain park?

Bode Miller:


Tanner Hall:

this is totally stupid
Freestyle and racing are completely different and should not be compared. You use different equipment, have different goals, different terrain, different ways of measuring who wins, etc. At the end of the day, both Tanner and Bode are two people doing two very different activities that each excels at and enjoys (just because they both involve putting long planks on your feet and gliding over snow doesnt mean that its a meaningful excercise to try and compare the two--we don't compare marathon running with football playing just because they both involve people running with shoes on their feet). And just as we wouldn't expect a marathon runner to play professional football, we shouldnt expect Bode Miller to be able to do everything that Tanner can do. And we shouldnt expect Tanner to do what Bode can do (the fact that Tanner can get down the icy race course is irrelevant--racing is about time, the average weekend skier could prolly "get down" given enough time). But of course thats not all theyre doing. Both are participating in activities in the context of a "commercial sport," which basically has one goal and one goal only--to entertain (while making money of course). You have to realize that all "commercial" sports have one purpose, and one purpose only--as a medium of entertainment. I believe this is the only meaningful thing that these two activities have in common and should be the only basis for comparison. Therefore lets see which sport brings in the most money (hence which one is the most successful at entertaining people). We could say, that is the most "successful" sport.

I think the conflict comes from Tanner not appreciating how much racing has contributed to the history of skiing, and racers like Daron not appreciating that racing is becoming irrelevant to the future of skiing.

It is a very mixed up situation. Racers are certainly very skilled, most of them can ski powder and big mountain okay and a few can even jib a bit. They compete in an incredibly structured and specialised discipline with huge media coverage and get big corporate endorsements.

Pro freeskiers often come from a racing background, but they have developed their jibbing and big mountain skills so they have, in my opinion, a more rounded set of skills. There is virtually no racing in any of the popular ski movies by MSP, TGR and PBP in the last 5 years, the movies that skiers buy are almost exclusively big mountain and jibbing. But the mainstream media only seems to cover any of it when someone falls a few thousand vertical feet down an Alaskan peak. Even the top freeskiing competitions get little or no coverage on TV.

Tanners gripe seems to be that the skill and commitment needed for both sides of the sport are comparable, but the rewards for having very specialised racing skills are very different from those with great pipe and park and big mountain skills. Why is it that racing is more marketable in the mainstream than freeskiing and jibbing, when fat skis and twin tips are exploding in sales, skier-friendly terrain parks are popping up everywhere and most skiers want freeskiing skills rather than gate bashing skills. Racing as a sport seems to be stagnating, while freeskiing and jibbing is taking off. Skiers realise it, resorts realise it, movie makers realise it, but the mainstream media and corporate sponsors still seem to think that racing is where it is at.

For the same reason that Formula 1 and Nascar are more marketable in the mainstream than driving an SUV to the grocery store. Just because the average skier likes twin tips, fat skis and terrain parks doesn't mean that everyone will immediately want to watch it on TV.

Look at the image ChrisSnow just posted of Tanner Hall. The little circus monkey is skiing on top of the Aspen Snowmass sign! Call me old-fashioned, but when I go to Aspen the last place I'm looking to ski is on top of the welcome sign. That's just goofy.

But really anything that gets kids on the mountain and away from the PS2 is good for skiing. I think this controversy is good for skiing!

As far as TV-good god the freestyling is boring. Probably better than those head to head snowboard slalom races (where even the gates look stupid) but just barely.

Although the sign in the picture is in fact what they call a "rail", it is still pretty silly.
I pretty much think any sport that must use judges in order to make a valid competition possible is pretty lame. If you ever watch diving or figure skating you know what I mean; all the competitors are getting scores like 9.7, 9.8 etc. It's all subjective.

Yep. Exactly as irrelevant as auto racing is to the cars we drive. Or space flight is to the materials sciences.

People will always want objective measures of performance. Racing gives them this and freeskiing doesn't (and never can). This is why there's the big bruhaha over judging in Olympic figure skating and gymnastics: No or limited objectivity. You don't see the same issues in speed skating or swimming!

Racing will always be part of the sport. Freeskiing competition may be. But, only if it can capture and hold audiences. If it can't, it will stay small and may disappear. Anyone remember the pro mogul circuit?

Harumph. Slight A-Frame, unequal edge angles, excessive counter, hips below knees, and clearly so out of control he's about to hit that obstacle. Someone should clip that young man's ticket for his own safety until he can get some lessons.

Are you comparing big mountain skiing and jibbing with driving an SUV to a store??? And given DVD sales it seems there are lots of people prepared to pay good money to watch athletes rip down Alaskan peaks, huck themselves on backcountry kickers and slide urban rails. I am not aware of any recent ski racing movies.

It used to be that the only elite skiers were racers, and the only high performance skis were race skis. But with the progression in ski design, the types of snow and terrain it is possible for the average skier to ski has greatly expanded. Like it or not, racing will never have the influence it did a decade ago. I am not saying racing will die, but it will just be another skiing discipline among many. Tanner is trying to get some of the limelight for himself and for freeskiing (for not totally unselfish reasons). And the racers are desperately trying to make sure that mainstream sponsors do not find out there are other aspects to skiing.

While I appreciate that racing helped the progression of materials in ski construction up until the early nineties, but racing did not lead the development of the current diversity in shapes of skis. I got my K2 Fours when they were the best carving skis around and there was no such thing as race carvers, and racing played no part in the development of fat skis or twin tip skis. It used to be that an “all mountain” ski was just a softened and detuned version of a race ski, but thankfully that is not the case any more. I am incredibly glad racing has played no part in the development of skis over the last five or ten years (excluding the civilian versions of race skis).

Racing is a passive spectator sport, you look at it and think wow, he has a lot of skill, but that icy course doesn’t look like much fun, and it is not the sort of place I would want to ski. When you look at freeskiers you think wow, he has a lot of skill, and I would give my left nut to ski that mountain and that snow, where is that, how do I get there and what sort of skis is he using?

When freeskiing has a "Celebrity Classic from Deer Valley", you will know it has arrived.

True that both Tanner and Bode/Darron possess different talents for skiing... but i think that if you took each skier out of their element (the park for Tanner, and and race course for Bode/Darron) that the racers would prove to be better athletes. Lets say that you put each of them at the top of a mountain with a 40 - 45 degree pitch (or steeper) that was covered in fresh powder and told them to ski down... i think that Tanner would die on his descent. It is very rare that you see that kid skiing outside of the terrain park. Skiers like Anthony, and McConkey are excellent athletes that base their career in tricks and free skiing. They have a more complete package if you ask me.

One of my team mates who is from the Lake Placid area had the opportunity to spend some time in the park with Tanner Hall last year and his one comment was that "the kid cant turn." He would somply go stright between jumps and if he did make any turns they were either quick windsheild wiper turns or long back seat carves with his feet glued together. This kind of skier would get killed if they were to do any "serious" skiing. If you go to Darron's fan site, you can see him doing a lot of back country skiing... and i dont think that Tanner Hall wants to take it there... there is footage of Ralves doing all sorts of spinning tricks while back country skiing... off rocks and drifts... dropping cliffs... even i was impressed - especially after seeing the footage of Bode ditching it off a 15 - 20 foot rock cliff in last years Warren Miller film. In my opinion Tanner Hall is a very talented park rider.. but outside the park he is the same as any other park rat that cant ski. Not to mention i also heard from my team mate that the kid is very rude and self centered. I personally would never try to compete with someone like Tanner in the park, but im confident that even i could take the kid for a ride if we were to go all mountain skiing. Imagine what someone like Bode or Darron would be able to do.

Later

GREG

btw, In a month I will be meeting/skiing with Chris Anthony for a few days when he is in Buffalo with the Warren Miller film tour. I'll try to remember to mention this topic to him and see what he thinks about it.

I love freesking but I think Tanner is getting dumber each year. If he would just jib and not talk I would like him alot more.

World Cup skiers deserve way more respect as high level athletes.

I could only wish to have half of their balance or muscle control.

racing irrelevant to modern skiing? right.

I think it is fustrations from Tanner and the rest of that crew. Just because most are "kids" and have no governing body this is a scream for attention. Was is the right thing for him to say? prbably not, but he had an audience (the Mag) and he spouted off some stupid remarks and could have said what he said better. Snowboarders felt the same way 15 years ago.

I know I would rather watch Tanner Hall in a slopestyle than Bode in a downhill. Thats not to take anything away from Bode or what any of these guys and women do in the FIS curcuit, but what the kids are doing on these jumps and halfpipes are amazing.

Freeskiing is cool and all but Bode and Daron are world class athletes. Maybe Tanner should compare himself to a world cup aerial skier. Can he do quad twisting triple flips? The new school is still in kindergarden. Its more fun for some kids to watch freeski comps because WC aerials everybody does similar trick and the high level of proficiency makes them all look similar. I think it would be good to allow switch take offs and landings and off axis rotations in WC aerials if the judges could figure out degree of difficulty. The quad twisting triple is much more difficult than what the new schoolers are doing now I think.

Some racers aren't good outside the gates because they race and train gates all the time. Look at Stacey Cook's latest report at skiracing.com on the value of freeskiing for a racer. It's amusing how hard she seems to think moguls are to ski. She sounds like she is less comfortable in bumps than me and I'm an old fat freeheeler. She might be less comfortable, but would probably blow me away in the bumps anyway.

Other racers are good freeskiers. I know I read Phil Mahre saying he saw Ted Ligety racing (juniors) at Whistler then doing freesking comp after the race. Also in that interveiw Phil says he did flips and helis when he wasn't running gates. From what I've read in this thread, Bode and Daron have some tricks up their sleeves too.

Darren weighs in on the matter

http://www.skiracing.com/profiles/ne...file.php/1989/

This sort of thing comes up all the time between mountain bikers vs Tour de France, Triathlete (in the early days) vs Marathon etc. Rise to the top of a fringe sport and you think you are equal to a world class athlete. The answer is simple: they aren't even in the same league. Put the Austrian machine in to freestyle and Tanner would vanish from the scene. He has no idea what it take to get to the level of these guys. Bode smoked the NFL wide receivers and cornerbacks in their favorite obsticle course at the superstars competition.

Shawn Palmer was once supposed to be the worlds greatest athlete because he was a professional mountain biker and supercross skier. He could barely beat the Hermanator on the bike---good thing they didn't put on skis.

I respect what Tanner Hall and the rest of the Park Rats are doing to the sport of skiing. There was a time not long ago when skiing was dying and snowboarding was the future. Twinn Tip popularity and the style that goes with it has brought the ski industry out of the gutter and back into the lead in the snow sliding spectrum.

Although it's big everywhere in the world, the movement and it's stars will only do an "also ran" at the best trying to compete with World Cup skiing and Freestyle Events that are so popular and get major T.V. and news coverage. Why, because of the Punk and Drug atmosphere that presides over the mainstream. The highlight event for them is the XGames which is televised in a Zoo like way with announcers who carry on like Carnival sideshow freaks who can barely carry on an intelligent interview. I take that back, they can't carry on an intelligent interview and the atheletes can't even give any intelligent answers.

It's really sad, because a lot of these kids are fine atheletes who do something better than anyone else could even imagine, or imagine how they could have the balls to do what they do. And, they'll never get anything of real value for it. Just arthritic backs, knees and shoulders when they're fourty. Oh ya, they get some sponser dough, maybe some skis, goggles, jackets, their name on some movie credits. Big deal! It'll never be the big money that Tomba or Stenmark or Bode Miller have made or gonna make.

LOL this is funny.

"I don't see why those downhillers get all the hype and $$; put them in a .....pig-calling, pie-eating, ______(insert activity requireing specialized skill here), whatever contest and they won't even....."

Um, excuse me, maybe they don't want to waste years of their lives learning how to ski on signs. That's what snow is for.

I wouldn't pay people to race down hills either, but then again I wouldn't pay them to play basketball or hockey either, but when I buy skis, I support them indirectly through their sponsors. I'd rather support the objectively judged racers than subjectively judged show-offs.

Tanner is a very talented idiot.

Maybe some day he will figure out there is room for us all. I love his sport, and after skiing for 30 years I got my twin tips and went into the park. Why do you think many of us have a full quiver of skis? After playing in the parks, I must admit, off piste is still where it is at FOR ME. I will hit the park now and then, but it has much less adventure and much more attitude going on.

Even little mountains have enough room for us all.

I hope he enjoys his 15 minutes.