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Pipe Skiing For Cert

post #1 of 48
Thread Starter 
Here is something that I would really like to find out how all you fully certified pros or pros that are going to the full cert exam this year feel about the new tasks one must accomplish to get the gold badge. THE PIPE. Do you feel as an alpine skier that you should have to risk your life in the pipe clearing the lip I’m told three times to pass? Or do you feel as I do, that this should be a separate merit badge type of thing like tele skiing that you can go for and add to your collection of accomplishments. I personally don’t feel the need to go in the pipe, although I have just to see what it’s like and it was fun. But I defiantly have no desire to try and clear the lip in a super pipe once, let alone three times. I believe that if someone wants to learn pipe skills that they take a lesson from someone who is really qualified to teach that sort of stuff and not a ski pro that learned just enough to pass their pipe task for their gold badge. Also I would want to see the guy who’s standing there with a clipboard and pencil judging me on my performance in the pipe, do what I’m being graded on. Because I’m pretty sure that most of the examiners will not be in there showing you guys just how to do it. (Of coarse I could be wrong, but most of the examiners I know aren’t in the pipe getting big air no way, no how.) I may be misinformed on all this and the pipe that will be used for this task might be very small. But no one has told me otherwise yet. Fortunately, I don’t have to do this because I have my gold badge. But I sure as hell am going to keep my clinics up to date and not let my cert laps so I don’t have to train to be one of the Flying Bannenee Brothers to get my gold badge back. How do you all feel about this? ------------Wigs
post #2 of 48
Personally, I'm all for it. What they are asking for, if your information is correct, is not very extreme at all and only sounds like they want a competance in the pipe and not an ability to risk life and limb in the pipe. The pipe can be a terrific place to teach skills like dynamic balance, edging and release, banking, and generally playing on the snow.

Afterall, the general training guidlines for PSIA Level 3 is ski any terrain, any time, in any conditions, and ski it well. With that in mind I think it was an oversight on PSIA's part to not acknowledge park and pipe until recently.

The Park and Pipe really aren't places to be avoided or feared, they are just reletively new to a lot of people (which fosters resentment and dislike without knowledge - no Wigs I'm not saying this to you, but commenting on human nature and the way people fear/resent/hate the unknown). When I took a Park and Pipe cert event last year, the ages ranged from 18-60+, and ranged from Level 1 - Level 3. A good time was had by all, and there was a massive amount of respect shown to eachother, and an incredible amount of information sharing by all. However I think the one thing I will remember most was the 60+ year old Level 1 (on short skis because he couldn't get twin-tips or snoblades) skiing the pipe, no he didn't clear the lip, but got right up there, but what I will never forget is how much fun he had once he realized he had nothing to be affraid of.
post #3 of 48
Quote:
CERTIFIED LEVEL III
The Certified Level III member is one whose high levels of skill and knowledge allow him or her to make an uncompromised contribution to the customer, the Association, and the ski industry. A Level III Certified member has the ability to assess all variables with regard to student personality traits, goals, abilities, needs, the learning environment, conditions of the day, available terrain, equipment, etc. and to synthesize these parts into a viable lesson plan. A Level III instructor can make adjustments to lesson goals and is able to appropriately adjust or modify lesson content as required by any situation.

Category A: Skiing
Level III certified teachers should have the skills to make short, medium, and long radius turns with little or no skidding. The skis describe two well defined arcs from before the fall line to turn completion. Terrain and snow conditions should have a minimal effect on skill application, movement accuracy, and turn outcome. Turn dynamics should represent the terrain, speed, and snow conditions common to Advanced zone skiing. A Level III certified teacher has the ability to maintain dynamics and movement accuracy through most conditions, on any terrain on most mountains.

The instructor is able to…
General Characteristics
Ski dynamic-parallel turns on any terrain on most mountains
Reduce, generate, or maintain speed without interrupting overall flow or rhythm
Ski a variety of turn sizes and shapes and apply them to different mountain situations
Demonstrate different types of skill blends and movement patterns in exercises, tasks, and turns upon request, and as applied in different mountain situations
Maintain control over turn shape and speed while skiing most conditions on any terrain on most mountains
Balance (Level III Advanced zone terrain, speed, and dynamics)
Maintain lateral and fore-aft balance through turn transitions, as balance shifts from foot to foot through terrain and conditional variations
Demonstrate an ability to consistently maintain the balanced relationship of the hips and the feet through all phases of the turn
Utilize proactive movements which anticipate ski reaction and create balance adjustments, minimizing the interruption of rhythm and flow in most situations common to all mountain skiing
Demonstrate the visual cues to effective skiing relative to balance in skiing and tasks common to Advanced zone skiers
Rotary Movements (Level III Advanced zone terrain, speed, and dynamics)
Use an appropriate amount of rotational guiding to assist edge engagement and direction change when dictated by conditions, terrain, or task
Demonstrate consistent guiding of both feet into and out of the fall line, creating two well defined arcs in the snow (minimal tail displacement)
Utilize strong, accurate rotational movements in conditions, terrain, and tasks which require quick direction change with minimal side cut engagement
Demonstrate the visual cues to effective skiing relative to rotary movements on demonstrations and tasks common to Advanced zone skiers
Edge Control Movements (Level III Advanced zone terrain, speed, and dynamics)
Begin tipping of the skis from uphill edges to the downhill edges before turning the skis toward the fall line (minimal pivoting to an edge) in most conditions on any terrain on most mountains
Demonstrate progressive, dynamic increase and decrease of edge angle throughout the phases of the turn
Utilize sidecut/ski design as the primary component controlling turn shape in most conditions in most situations
Demonstrate the visual cues to effective skiing relative to edge control movements on demonstrations and tasks common to Advanced zone skiers
Pressure Control Movements (Level III Advanced zone terrain, speed, and dynamics)
Maintain ski-snow contact when appropriate to condition, task, or demonstration
Adjust movements to maintain, increase, or decrease pressure and turn forces as conditions, tasks, or demonstrations require, while maintaining turn shape and accuracy
Demonstrate a gradual increase in pressure to the outside ski throughout round turns in most conditions in most conditions on any terrain on most mountains.
Adapt to terrain variables with minimal interference with ski performance
Demonstrate the visual cues to effective skiing relative to pressure control on demonstrations and tasks common to Advanced zone skiers

Category B: Teaching
Level III certified teachers must demonstrate an in depth understanding of basic learning theory, communication and people skills, and human development issues. Display a mastery of human development issues for all skiing populations (i.e., age, gender). Application of these concepts must produce a clear and concise delivery of information, and an uncomplicated learning environment through Advanced zone lessons.

The instructor is able to…
Awareness, Understanding, and Knowledge
Consider safety concerns as students move beyond the Intermediate zone learning environment
Make specific lesson plan decisions based upon accurate interpretation of student behavior and performance
Adjust the depth and pacing of information and feedback to address the needs, motivation, and interest level of the students
Address a variety of learning styles and utilize various feedback systems to facilitate an experiential learning environment
Identify the elements of multiple intelligence theory and relate these concepts to sensory preferences in communication and information exchange
Describe, in depth, the skier services and activities available at one's home area as well as within the ski industry
Display a strong ability to answer the "How do I get there?" question regarding movement analysis
Display an in-depth understanding of cause-and-effect relationships relative to skill references and specific movement issues
Create unique lesson plans through a strong understanding of people and ski technique
Application
Teach the skiing public through the Advanced zone
Account for the mental, emotional, social, and physical cues encountered with students in most lesson situations
Creatively utilize the conditions of the day to ensure safety and create unique experiences for students
Make technical lesson content decisions based upon specific movement analysis observations, as well as non-movement factors (mental, emotional, physical)
Demonstrate an ability to encourage students to become responsible for their own learning
Lessons are characterized by a continuously developing lesson plan based on observations and the development and adjustment of guest goals; rather than a preconceived lesson plan based upon initial perceptions

Category C: Professional Knowledge
Professional Knowledge for Level III certified teachers reflects a strong accurate understanding of skiing terminology and concepts beyond the scope of ski teaching manuals. Related industry sources, ski coaching, and familiarity with various peripheral resources promote well-rounded teaching with the capacity to create exceptional experiences for most students, in most conditions on any terrain at most mountains.

The teacher is able to…
Terminology
Demonstrate a strong understanding industry wide terminology
Display an ability to compare and contrast various types of information regarding skiing and ski teaching from a variety of resources
Demonstrate the ability to translate most skiing terminology into layman's terms
Equipment
Describe changing equipment needs as skiers move through the Intermediate and Advanced ability zones
Tailor lesson plans to fit student equipment capabilities,
Serve as an industry ambassador, shop liaison, and general authority for equipment questions and advice
Skills Concept
Understand appropriate application of the skills concept (as a tool to communicate, organize and assist the teaching of movements )
Understand and utilize the controlling elements of skiing movements (duration, intensity, rate, and timing) relative to skill blending
Apply skill blending to tactical choices in a variety of conditions
Movement Analysis
Incorporate all aspects of student-teacher communication as a part of movement analysis, utilizing personality traits such as motivation and emotion in addition to actual skiing performance
Understand the visual cues of effective and ineffective skiing relative to Advanced zone skiing applications
Understand cause-and-effect relationships and resultant ski performance in Advanced zone skiing situations
Utilize informal movement analysis (in addition to formal situations) to constantly monitor all aspect of movement and movement patterns as an ongoing process throughout a lesson
Evaluate the effectiveness and performance of practice activities, and continuously adjust lesson plans accordingly
Personal Mastery
Seek outside education options to promote a broad understanding of the sport
Seek involvement in helping less experienced teachers
Funny but I don't see that requirement in the national standard. Did I miss something or is the a regional requirement.
post #4 of 48
We had a pipe clinic the other day amid much grumbling from some of the instructors and cheering from others. I got to thinking about the Level III requirements, and it occured to me that maybe we should go to some sort of elective system.

Instead of requiring all Level 3s to be good at everything (pipe and racing were added to the exam out West), they should require that each Level 3 candidate posses some sort of elective credit. I'm thinking there could be a race option, a park option, a children's option, and maybe an "extreme" option or a BC option. To get you basic Level 3 would require just one of these electives, but if an instructor wanted to pad the resume (or more importantly their business card), they could collect more of the electives. The mechanism for this is already in place, since we have park accredidation and children's specialist options already available.

If they wanted to go even further, you could have one elective required for Level II, with an additional elective required for Level III.
post #5 of 48
Wigs, in this context, what's it mean to "clear the lip"?

During our Level I last year, we all went into the pipe at the top of the Flier at Copper, crossed it multiple times, all of us getting skis to the top of the pipe multiple times. Some of us (ahem... ) actually grinding the lip (I still don't know if that was bad form or not).

But, if "clear the lip" means to come completely off the snow and either land switch or do most of a 180 to land, then yes, I think it's a bit much to expect.
post #6 of 48
CSIA has a distinct park and pipe certificate. It's not needed for any advanced cert. It's not a pre-requisite for any instructor level. It's totally standalone. It is possible to fail level 1 cert, but still become certified in park and pipe, and vice-versa.
post #7 of 48

Yes

To me a level III should be able to ski all terrain/conditions with skill and grace.

Most areas have a park and pipe. Many students have the park and pipe as their eventual goal. I think a level III should be required to show basic skiing proficiency (straight air) and technical knowledge (safety, etiquette) of pipe/park terrain.

Grabs and spins should be covered in a separate freestyle accreditation.
post #8 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wigs
Here is something that I would really like to find out how all you fully certified pros or pros that are going to the full cert exam this year feel about the new tasks one must accomplish to get the gold badge. THE PIPE. Do you feel as an alpine skier that you should have to risk your life in the pipe clearing the lip I’m told three times to pass? badge back. ------------Wigs

Wigs,

It is my understanding from BB and some other examiners that clearing the lip will get you 9's and 10's but it is definitely not the requirement to pass.

You are expected to show a reasonable level of comfort and confidence-i.e., up the wall, reaching near the top depending on the particular pipe and make a good transition back down and across. Skiing down the middle won't cut the mustard.

It is a growing part of our market so I believe a reasonable level of comfort in the pipe is not to much to expect for the gold pin.
post #9 of 48
I'm with Mike. My understanding is a ski length from the lip gets you a six and seals the deal.

I for one will say my first trip in the pipe scared the crud out of me.

Bob Barnes is actually pretty darn good
post #10 of 48
Personally feel the pipe and rail slides are a fad that will always be there, but are not the savior of the ski industry. (Observed a true ballet skier on the mountain equipped with the long poles the other day). I also agree that a mandatory pipe as part of the exam IS NOT THE CORRECT WAY TO GO. There is and should be a separate freestyle section. No one has brought up the switch maneuvers for level 2 as of yet. I understand PSIA attempt to look trendier and how many of the skiing lessons really go to the pipe? My wife was a ski school product sales manager for years and I know the answer to that question.
But on the other hand I also feel that you shouldn't be banned from the pipe if you haven’t had the free style training as some resorts are doing. I see another way; look at the marketing and emphases by the resorts over the last few years. I work at one of the busiest resorts in the country and we have no world cup ski races in the last five years. In that time there have been ten to fifteen pipe specific events. Where is the good skiing on TV, every time I watch I see that you are not a good skier unless you are catching one hundered feet of air and landing in a heap? It is simple, good skiing no longer sells! I would expect more pipe and park events and get used to it. Kid see it on tv every day Evolve or perish!!
post #11 of 48
Thread Starter 
Thanks to all that have so far responded to my post. And some questions that I was not aware of have been answered if the information is correct. I was told by what may have been now unreliable sources that to pass you had to clear the lip. Of coarse all pipes are not created equal, and the ones we have around here at Snowmass are of the super pipe models. Clearing the lip on one of these monsters would put you up where you might need oxygen. And they don’t hold the X Games here in Aspen because we have wimpy pipes.

Mikewil has stated that one would get 9s and 10s if they indeed clear the lip and this is a fair grade for those that do, IMHO. Rusty Guy said that one can pass with a score of 6 and come within a ski length of the lip. Now this I think is a reasonable task. I’ve done this myself with no problem. But clearing the lip in a super pipe and landing it is a scary thing. Don’t get me wrong, back in the day I use to jump off cliffs that were very much higher than a super pipe lip. But I’m a bit older now and I would like to think a little smarter and I do this teaching thing for a living and can’t afford to bust my ass and be out of commission for a month or more. There are many out there that are older ski pros that haven’t obtained their full cert yet and would really like too. Do we say to the older pro you can’t be fully certified until you pass the pipe? This older pro might have been teaching for years and be a better teacher of the sport than the young ski pro that is full of piss and vinegar and has been teaching the sport for 3 or 4 years and recovers from an injury in 20 minutes. But if Rusty Guy is right, and BB told him that a ski length from the top will be good enough, then I’ll buy it. But if I have a young guy or girl, (I hope not a girl or I might have to go) in class that wants to go piping, I’m going to introduce him to the gnarly dude that teaches that event. -----------------Wigs
post #12 of 48

Maybe I can help clear this up a bit...

Hi Wigs!

The info you have intially is a bit off the mark. As has been said a couple of times by both Rusty and SSH, the minimum requirement isn't to clear the lip of the pipe.

To get a 6, you would have to at least get up near the vertical part of the wall, make a simple 180 hop turn, and repeat this 4 times. We are looking for balance, control, and understanding of the environment. If some young hotfoot goes big, more power to him/her. But that is above and beyond.. but it can score some extra points.

The rationale behind this addition (now in its second season) is that with more and more skiers wanting to play in the terrain zones, it was felt that a fully certified instr should be able to at least show some minimum level of competency in that environment. This is the same with the racing requirement, new this year.

Another new requirement this season, at Level 2, is to be able to perform parallel turns, SWITCH, on very easy terrain.(green/blue) The rationale is again the same.

But honestly, how many experienced pro's can't ski backwards? It is a basic teaching skill!

There is in PSIA-RM a freestyle accreditation. With 3 levels, it covers basic manuevers and basic air at level 1, and increases in difficulty as you go through levels 2 and 3.

Good luck to all of you attending exams this season!
post #13 of 48
PSIA W has simular requirements for park and pipe. My understanding is they want us to at least be comfortable and show some competence in the terrain. Sugarbowl, requires that instructors be either "certified" by our ski school (few clinics by a designated supervisor) or a level II in order to take any class or private into the pipe.

For kids classes and privates, That's the "cool" place to go. You better be able to at least climb the wall and make a 180 hop.
For the younger kids, them getting to 45 degrees on the wall is WAY COOL. Don't even need a hop turn
post #14 of 48
When I first saw this thread, I ws like no way. After seeing the requirements more in depth, I can fully agree with where PSIA is going with it. Getting to the vert and doing a 180 turn is very easy, so nobody should panic.

Like DC says, the pipe is a very cool place to go, especially with jr's. Granted our pipe is miniscule in comparison to the super pipes out West. I've worked with many of our jr's in our's. Smaller kids just to ride to a 45* angle and turn, older kids to try to get to the vert and turn. I've had one or two clear the small lip near the exit. I talked to our SSD in depth last year about setting up training rails and getting someone in to clinic/certify those of us interested in getting more into the park and teaching entry level park classes. I hope it happens this year.
post #15 of 48
Taylormatt, you might want to check out the "Portable Park" items in this month's issue of Pro Rider. They might work well for your "training rails".
post #16 of 48
The last sno pro last season had an article about training rails. I used this to introduce it to our SSD. I haven't spoken to him about it yet, but I heard through the grapevine we were getting them. Maybe SpringsRegular has an inside scoop on this?

Beyond just getting the rails, I'd really like some good clinics on safe and proper teaching in the park as well as advancing our own personal skills. I think park lessons would really boost our lesson count. It's where all the young kids want to be...even some adults want to go, but are afraid to try. Lessons on getting them started may go a long way.

Pro Rider? Is this like Sno Pro, but for the Western Division?
post #17 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taylormatt
Pro Rider? Is this like Sno Pro, but for the Western Division?
I was surprised to get it yesterday. It says it's the official publication of AASI.
post #18 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by vail snopro
To get a 6, you would have to at least get up near the vertical part of the wall, make a simple 180 hop turn, and repeat this 4 times. We are looking for balance, control, and understanding of the environment. If some young hotfoot goes big, more power to him/her. But that is above and beyond.. but it can score some extra points.

The rationale behind this addition (now in its second season) is that with more and more skiers wanting to play in the terrain zones, it was felt that a fully certified instr should be able to at least show some minimum level of competency in that environment.
Is there any requirement for the instructor to be able to get in and out of the pipe safely? I'm thinking of the situation whereby somebody below crashes and the group has to exit the pipe (not stop, not go around - BAD ETIQUETTE). I mean clearing the coping and onto the deck without launching yourself?
post #19 of 48
Ok, I'll check with some board instructors to see about a copy.
post #20 of 48
Warren-
Not for the purposes of the exam, but for general knowledge, I'd certainly suggest that everyone who uses the park become familiar with the etiquette of entering and exiting the various apparatus.

Though on-slope etiquette seems to be a thing of the past, it's funny how important it is to this group, in this environment! And amazing how aggressively it is enforced by it's participants! Kind of like my days as an entry level surfer on the West Coast!
post #21 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by warren
Is there any requirement for the instructor to be able to get in and out of the pipe safely? ... I mean clearing the coping and onto the deck without launching yourself?
During our clinic last season we had to call our entry, show proficient entry, get to vertical, exit the pipe mid way and re-enter from mid pipe, and the hop turns. Extra points for clearing the lip and an alley oop.
During the teaching portion if we went into the pipe, we had to do the safety thing, show how we would explain and get the students interested in understanding the safety rules and demonstrate good class handling in the pipe.

How that would be scored or evaluated on the exam I don't know since I'm not an examiner and the pipe at Mammoth was in such bad shape during our exams we didn't even venture near the pipe.

DC
post #22 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taylormatt
Ok, I'll check with some board instructors to see about a copy.
Get your level one snowboard and they will send it to you.
post #23 of 48

Leave it to PSIA

Man are they a stupid bunch.

If they are going to require this for level 3 then let's make sure we get out there and put ALL of the current level 3's through it and make sure they know how also. Then let's make sure that ALL of the examiners can do the pipe manevers as described. If they can't they are no longer examiners.

All of the arguments about how this is a crucial part of the sport are nonsense. Most clients can't ski let alone get air in a pipe. Let's look at this in a historical context. When the original "freestyle" craze happend were certified instructors as they were known required to perform ski ballet or out riggers or to air it out in the bumps. NO. With mogul skiing a huge part of skiing and even an olympic event were certified instructors required to show proficiency in even the simplest of aerial manevers? NO. With free and extreme skiing a huge craze are instructors required to catch air off of cliffs?NO.

There's one group that's in more trouble than the NSAA and that's the PSIA. It's no wonder they can't keep their membership
post #24 of 48
Can't speak for all the level 3's out there but all of the examiners I've skied with can rock in the park and pipe. It might not be their favorite place to be but ask them to demo the skill and it's pretty close to spot on. If it wasn't they wouldn't be an active examiner.

All of the level 3's I've skied with can walk the walk. They may not spend the time in the pipe working on big air but they can perform the skills as required. All professions have people that have been "grandfathered" in because of changing needs and skills. Why should PSIA be any different? You don't strip certifications because of changing standards and to maintain your cert, you do have to attend a certain amount of CE and any Pro not looking to improve themselves will not last too long in the changing enviroment.
post #25 of 48

Hey Sidecut.....

Hey Sidecut-
Are you really in a pineapple under the sea, or under a rock in some dark cave? Come on out and see the light!

Just because things weren't always so, does it mean they can't change? Is that your philosophy? Hmmm, seatbelts and motorcycle helmets weren't always mandatory, but now they are (in most places). Will you keep living in the past? You are probably a straight ski holdout too, aren't you?

Time to look ahead and see what direction things are going. Instrs have always been expected to be able to ski bumps, since long before any freestyle comps existed. And those who did learn how to jump did get the lessons where the student was interested in learning to do so. And by the way, here in RM, we are required to re-qualify as examiners every season, performing all the manuevers expected of the candidates. That includes the half pipe.

So, as the use of terrain parks gets more widespread, shouldn't instr's have at least some basic knowledge of them? You claim that our students can't even ski, more or less use a half pipe. Try to keep up with some of the young kids I ski with- they'll blow your minds in a pipe. Then they'll wax you in a race course.

You are placing generalities upon things you do not know about. I might be wrong- it does sound as if you might be a disgruntled instr wannabe, who couldn't cut it. Otherwise, why would you have such bitterness towards PSIA?

But try this on for size- "If you aren't part of the solution, you are part of the problem!"

You may now crawl back under your rock....
post #26 of 48
It's almost too easy. They're practically jumping in the boat!


Quote:
Originally Posted by vail snopro

Just because things weren't always so, does it mean they can't change? -snip- Will you keep living in the past? You are probably a straight ski holdout too, aren't you?....

Good to see you went right to the Ad Hominem attack. So predictable.
Yeah I'm skiing on straight skis.

You want to look toward the future then perhaps you should open your eyes and look at the present. PSIA barely had relevance over the past decades and it has almost zero relevance now. There is an explosion in backcountry SKIING and RIDING. Where's the AVI req for level 3? I ask you again where is the 20' cliff launch and the progressiuon to teach to get there! These are really Skiing goals. These are skills that require knowledge in addition to commitment. Any decent skier already has the skills to negotiate a pipe and satisfy RM's "pipe" requirement as long as they have the willingness to commit to it.

It's stupid.


Quote:
Originally Posted by vail snopro
Instrs have always been expected to be able to ski bumps, -snip-....
They've never been required to get any air during an exam while skiing a line in hte bumps. Why not? What makes the Pipe so different? And if you are going to make a pipe req what about the rest of the park? It's just another half baked poorly thought out PSIA idea. Actually it's worse, half baked really comes from national this as a regional propgram doesnt even merit that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vail snopro
You claim that our students can't even ski, more or less use a half pipe. Try to keep up with some of the young kids I ski with- they'll blow your minds in a pipe. Then they'll wax you in a race course. ....
Yes most of the people that come to ski school cannot come close to what you are describing. Please refer to any of the numerous threads many of which you have participated in that cover this very subject. As for some kids having that ability,,,you are absolutely right and guess what? At most resorts those kids are part of specialized race, freestyle or regular ski programs many of which are taught by coaches who haven't had a day of PSIA training. In fact at many resorts the programs got their start because of the inability and incompetence of the in place ski schools to perform at the needed level.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vail snopro
- it does sound as if you might be a disgruntled instr wannabe, who couldn't cut it. Otherwise, why would you have such bitterness towards PSIA?....
I have absolutely ZERO bitterness toward PSIA. I'm sure believing that makes it easier for you. When I ski and I teach I do it for myself. I have no need for validation other than a knowing smile cast from ski buddy to ski buddy after a run. For me a "certification" is meaningless. For you to feel good about yourself it may require a pat on the head from Mike Porter and company. PSIA is filled with people that need this type of validation.They want the pins and they want to wear the jacket and most can't ski but they have their level 1!

Quote:
Originally Posted by vail snopro
But try this on for size- "If you aren't part of the solution, you are part of the problem!"....
Yeah this is your big war cry. You use it as your convenient out. But I would say that since you are apparently active that YOU are the problem.

There's a reason why people do not take lessons anymore and it's simple. The instructors are clueless about how to engage clients. Now there are some great teaches out there but their greatness has little or nothing to do with PSIA.

SImply put PSIA is rinky dink and this is a classic example of how they cannoit see the forest through the trees.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vail snopro
You may now crawl back under your rock....
It's a pineapple. Hey whose butt do you have to kiss out there at Vail these days? IS obi wan even still there?
post #27 of 48
Quote:
disgruntled instr wannabe
From his reply, VSP, it sounds like you've got him pegged.

Where do these guys come from?

Sidecut--as they say, "if you don't like change, you're going to like irrelevence even less." (General Eric Shinseki) If you're satisfied with the way you teach and ski, you'll never get any farther!
post #28 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidecut
Yeah this is your big war cry. You use it as your convenient out. But I would say that since you are apparently active that YOU are the problem.

There's a reason why people do not take lessons anymore and it's simple. The instructors are clueless about how to engage clients. Now there are some great teaches out there but their greatness has little or nothing to do with PSIA.

SImply put PSIA is rinky dink and this is a classic example of how they cannoit see the forest through the trees.
Given the praise on other threads in this forum for the teaching of VSP (as recently as last weekend at the ETU), I think you're missing the boat, here. The PSIA and some of its members certainly have their share of issues. But, you've overstated your case and thus lost any effectiveness for the cogent components of your argument.

Some folks are trying to make a difference and help to change the PSIA. Given Ric's roles in PSIA-RM, I count him as one of those.
post #29 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidecut
Man are they a stupid bunch.

If they are going to require this for level 3 then let's make sure we get out there and put ALL of the current level 3's through it and make sure they know how also. Then let's make sure that ALL of the examiners can do the pipe manevers as described. If they can't they are no longer examiners.

All of the arguments about how this is a crucial part of the sport are nonsense. Most clients can't ski let alone get air in a pipe. Let's look at this in a historical context. When the original "freestyle" craze happend were certified instructors as they were known required to perform ski ballet or out riggers or to air it out in the bumps. NO. With mogul skiing a huge part of skiing and even an olympic event were certified instructors required to show proficiency in even the simplest of aerial manevers? NO. With free and extreme skiing a huge craze are instructors required to catch air off of cliffs?NO.

There's one group that's in more trouble than the NSAA and that's the PSIA. It's no wonder they can't keep their membership
Why are you so angry?

Like several have pointed out, what they are asking is neither difficult nor dangerous. From the Level 3's I've met, I seriously doubt any of them would be fazed by a simple straight air in the pipe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dchan
All professions have people that have been "grandfathered" in because of changing needs and skills. Why should PSIA be any different? You don't strip certifications because of changing standards and to maintain your cert, you do have to attend a certain amount of CE and any Pro not looking to improve themselves will not last too long in the changing enviroment.
That really is exactly how all professions work. Including the typical book and paper type of teaching.
post #30 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by telerod15
Get your level one snowboard and they will send it to you.
Uhm:, gonna have to pass on that.

I've tried it and decided I'm a 2 planker for life.
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