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Photo for discussion...

post #1 of 45
Thread Starter 
I was just looking back at photos of last year's ESA/Gathering, and found one of me that Bob Peters had taken in Jackson. I've cropped it down a bit, but tell me what you think. What's wrong, what's right, and what's down right embarrassing?

Oh, and just to clarify, I'm on fat skis (128/95/118), so that may be part of my excuse!
post #2 of 45
The only thing wrong is that you aren't making tracks in that new snow pictured fifty meters behind you!
post #3 of 45
And you're not wearing a fox hat.
post #4 of 45
Thread Starter 
I think I just had!
post #5 of 45
The biggest thing I notice is hand position. The inside hand (left) is definitely falling back tempting you into the back seat. The outside hand (right) is forward, but I'd like to see the elbows out in front of the hips, rather than tucked into the body. With elbows out and hands forward, your stance will be more forward and aggressive, ready to lead into the next turn as well as finish the one you are doing. Think of riding a mountain bike, where would your hands & elbows have to be if you were holding onto the handlebars?
post #6 of 45
Thread Starter 
If I dug up a photo of me before the first Academy, then you'd see what bad hand position really was!
post #7 of 45
It takes time to practice and engrain it into your brain about where hands/elbows should be. Keep at it.
post #8 of 45

Before I dive into this, I generally don't like doing movement analysis based on one photo. Skiing is a dynamic sport and a photo is a static image of your skiing. In this one, it's a bit hard to tell everything I need to from the angle the shot is taken, but here goes anyway. What stands out to me, is the amount of apparent lead seen in the inside ski. As I said, it's a bit tough to tell from the angle of the photo, but here are some clues. Look at the bend in your legs relative to each other. To me it looks as if you have a really strong outside leg. The foot is pretty much under the hips and this is a good position. However, if you look at you inside leg you foot is way ahead of your hips. My only suggestion from viewing a 1 frame image of your skiing, would be to "pull" or move that inside foot back to a position more under your hips. You'll have to flex the ankle and knee a bit more to keep the ski in contact with the snow. I think you'll find it's a much more powerful position. The reason your foot's out there is kinda unknown (to me) at this point and the causes could me many. Remember a little lead is good, but I think what we see in this photo is too much.

BTW do you ever struggle in hard snow/icy conditions ? Your edging will be much less precise in the stance pictured above.

Take care and good luck.
post #9 of 45
the smile isn't big enough

the inside hand isn't riding low enough
post #10 of 45
IMO, that's the stance I often see folks that are doing a hockey stop. IOW, pushing against the outside ski -- A LOT. The difference in leg flex between the inside and outside legs is not the hill alone.

WTFH: Think about letting the ski cut it's path through the snow. You'll know when it happens when the noise from the ski lessens and gets very quiet. You may be pushing when you should really be flexing more!

Think about just balancing on top of the ski as you ride the edge, as opposed to pushing in the opposite direction; allow the ski to work, as opposed to using a "don't go there" move.

Inclinate/angulate/push JUST enough to balance against the forces as the ski turns. Ski easy, let the ski cut it's path, balance, and enjoy the ride!

Hope that helps.
post #11 of 45
Why do you need advice from us when you've been to 2 academys?
post #12 of 45
IMO: too far back & upright. Pistol or any big ski needs to be skied stronger. I think the hand, feet & stance are all secondary to the fact that you prob had no pressure on the shins & med/lat aspect of your outside/inside feet b/c you're not forward enough. tough to tell from a single photo
post #13 of 45

1. Bend your arm, point hand toward the arrow.
2. Relax
3. Bend knee, downhill leg forward, you want to be pushing through the turn.
4. Should be more square in shoulders, get shoulder down and more level
5. Slice
6.Hip should be lower to ground and more square to turn.
post #14 of 45
First thing that stands out to me is the K2's you're on.
post #15 of 45
be thankful you can see only the tips. the whole bottom/top combo side by side is enough to blind a blind man.
post #16 of 45
You seem to have some sort of protective eye cover blocking your vision.
post #17 of 45
Read the thread on banking maybe???? Your left shoulder is way too low. You need to flex toward the outside of the turn a little at the waist so that your body remains upright and your shoulders more level. So from neutral, when you're upright between turns, your hips should settle into the turn as needed for angulation and your torso should remain upright. Pulling the inside foot back, or thinking about flexing the inside ankle more, would help some too.
post #18 of 45
What do you see that you like or don't like?
post #19 of 45
Too much inclination and not enough angulation.

You are banking and this is causing inside ski to move forward.

Work on drills that create more angles in the hips and knees. for example:
Ski with poles held horizontally and as you ski keep poles level with slope.
Drag poles tips in the snaow and maintain contact with both poles at all times.

I have other ideas, but would start with this as not to overwhelm you.

standing on outside ski and look like you are skiing agressively, I like it, you just need to get those angles worked out.
post #20 of 45
Fox, unless the critic offers a disclaimer that diagnosing and prescribing changes from a picture is like an M.D. practicing medicine at a cocktail party after several martinis, you should strongly discount the advice.

I, who have skied with you at two academies, think you have shown a lot of progress for the number of days you have had on skis, and this is borne out by the terrain and conditions you choose to ski. Your body will respond to speed, terrain, and conditions by optimizing position and movements that your critics have found lacking or ill-defined. My impression from this photo is simply that you appear to be thinking pretty hard about what you are doing. My prescription would be to think less and focus more on where you want to go.
post #21 of 45
Just trying to do the best we can to help.

If you can't diagnose from a picture how can you tell that someone is thing too hard?

I think it is clear from the picture that there is banking, how hard he is thinking I am not sure.
post #22 of 45
I have skied with him, so I have inside information, and that is chiefly of how far he has come toward the ideal you are comparing him to.
post #23 of 45
Originally Posted by nolo
My impression from this photo is simply that you appear to be thinking pretty hard about what you are doing.
so you meant to say "Since I have skied whith you before I noticed you were thinking too hard"

Even when I ski with someone it is often hard to tell how hard they are thinking. Sometimes the lack of focus and thought leads to sloppy execution of movements.

He asked for ideas and many here have given some thoughts for him to work on and also pointed out good things as he asked for. I should also add that he asked for anything embarrassing and there is nothing embarrassing about his skiing.

Let's face it as long as he was having fun that is most important.

Althought difficult to draw substantial conclusions from a single picture it is possible to notice certain traits of effective or ineffective skiing from a single picture.

Congrats to him that he has improved and is continuing to pursue further input to better himself.
post #24 of 45
No, you misunderstand me, TTF. My inside information is how far he's come. The impression I get from the photo is he's trying very hard to get it right.

The commentators have little positive feedback for Fox. I want to balance the scales.
post #25 of 45
Rotated, Banked and braced.

Granted, these are from a single still image, but in the 1/500th of a second, that's what the camera captured. In regards to what others including Nolo have said, this says nothing about how far you have come, but we all have things to work on. But hey, you asked.

The Rotated comment comes from the fact that I see that it looks like you are trying to get some counter, but it's coming from the shoulders rather than the hips. The jacket makes it a bit hard to see, but your hips are turned further across the hill than the skis, and the shoulders are closer to the direction of travel.

The Banked comment comes from the inside hand being well below the outside hand, and too far back. Your hand should be nowhere near your knee. Especially on snow that good.

The Bracing comment is a bit less definite, but it looks like you have a bit too much weight/pressure on the inside ski (the banking did that to you in that turn), and are pushing the outside ski away from you. Just being able to angulate a bit more and get the pressure to the outside ski may help that a bit, but some of it is also mental - using it for speed control or possibly wanting to feel that outside ski bite and snap back a bit. If you try to ingnore looking for those types of sensations and worry more about the direction of travel ("I want to go over there"), it may also help a bit.
PS, I haven't had any martinis today. I don't even like martinins.
post #26 of 45

Please clarify for me. With that much flex in the inside knee, how can he have too much pressure on the inside ski? Banking? I really don't think so. Look at some images of WC racers, they are WAY banked (and angulated at times) but manage to do a great job of regulating pressure on the inside ski by flexing their inside leg.....

For example (I couldn't find a good WC image but this one should do.)
This guy is way "banked" (he is also very angulated). He also has very little pressure on his inside ski. This is acheived by significant flex of the inside leg. (Just as WTFH has in his skiing just to a lesser degree). In fact if you look at the two photo's there are quite a bit of similarties (the position of the hands for example.)

I'm not saying your wrong, but I want a better explanation from you...
post #27 of 45
He wants to know what's right as well as what's wrong, people. (I think we can all agree he has nothing to be embarrassed about.)
post #28 of 45

I agree 100%. I think a lot of folks here are being a bit hard on WTFH. I really do like the position of the outside leg. Overall I don't think the stance is that bad. There's room for improvement, but show me one skier that couldn't improve. Again, it's one frame.

Here's another photo for comparison. (Hint: look at the photos side by side)

To me (other than the intensity of the turn), the image of WTFH and this skier are fairly similar. The main difference is the position of the inside foot being pulled back. Notice how much stronger and balanced this skier looks. With one simple change, our buddy WTFH could have a similar look.


EDIT: With the help of paintbrush, I did a little digital manipulation of this photo. I digitally pulled the leg back. The angle the knee comes in and teh ankle is a bit off (I wish I had photoshop!), but I think this new image just "looks" like a stronger skier. In the new image, the main outstanding issue is the had (which can be a very easy fix).

Again, look at the images side by side.

WTFH, Can you see what I'm talking about in the two photos of you? I don't think you are that far off. Just a few minor tweaks and you're in there!
post #29 of 45
Thread Starter 
Originally Posted by lshull
For example (I couldn't find a good WC image but this one should do.)
This guy is way "banked" (he is also very angulated). He also has very little pressure on his inside ski. This is acheived by significant flex of the inside leg. (Just as WTFH has in his skiing just to a lesser degree). In fact if you look at the two photo's there are quite a bit of similarties (the position of the hands for example.)
Except I never wear skin tight clothing in public, and the fashion police would arrest me for red and grey...
post #30 of 45
That's the spirit, lshull.
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