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Head GS WC FIS Racing ski model 2004 Q

post #1 of 22
Thread Starter 
I was offered a pair of last seasons 190cm pro racing GS skiis for under 400USD incl. Tyrolias racing binding. I cannot find any information on the net conserning these. How do they differ from this years model. Is it a good buy or a nytty customer rip off?
post #2 of 22
I think it is the same ski as this years (or very very close). Dawgcatching has a pair and likes them a lot (or at elast he had a pair). They had very good reviews, but it was also said that they are a ski that needs power. If youre not a big guy i wouldnt ski the 190. I think it has less shape than the 2003 model, and a slightly softer flex... but that doesnt make it a meek ride. They are probably complete rockets. I'd get them to cruise around on if i weighed 200lbs...
Later
GREG
post #3 of 22
I hear that, among GS skis, the Heads are alot of ski. I wouldn't get any GS ski, especially the Heads, in 190 unless you are a strong FIS racer. Keep in mind the WCers use 191-194.
post #4 of 22
Yep, the 190 is alot of ski. A friend of mine who was the Masters regional champion in SL and 3rd in GS skis the Head in 180cm, although he is only 5 foot 8, he is the fastest guy on the hill. I ski the 180cm i-GS RD (from 2 seasons ago, same as last year's ski) and it is a great ski. Very smooth and predictable, can generate alot of power, but somehow more forgiving than most race skis (I ski mine 90% of the time, in powder and crud up to 6"). I also owned the Fischer WC GS last season (178cm), and while they were both great race skis, the Fischer seemed to have a little less edgehold and require more brute strength-it was more demanding as well.

Also, the ski you are considering (used to be the i-GS RD) is now called the i-Race, and is the same ski as the 2004 (except for that it has a softer plate, not the Vist that the 03/04 had). It is a 21.5m ski. The new 05' race stock head (the new i-GS RD) is a complete beast, 24m radius, the baddest ski I have ever been on. Probably pretty close to what top racers use. For me, in a 180, it felt like a super-G, and was an order of magnitude stiffer and more powerful than any other race GS I have used (I skied them all last year, save for Rossi and Stockli).
post #5 of 22
The 05 GS RD is indeed a sweet ski, I would have picked one up if it weren't for the 23 m radius and our courses are usually set pretty tight. It was amazinly smooth but like dawgcatching said it requires alot of work to flex it. Though with great power comes great speed. I haven't been on the 04 version, but I do like the direction Head is making with their ski dept. ie better race skis and laminate skis for all mountain skiing.

dawgcatching do you have the Free flex 17 or the DC 9 (or something of a similar name, can't recall the name exacty) if so I am curious as to your thoughts on the bindings them.

Thanks
post #6 of 22
I have 2 pair of FF17's. I can't say anything about them really-I have only crashed hard on those skis once, and they released just fine. I have never come out prematurely. They are sturdy and well built.

I will say that my Head's have the fastest bases of any ski I have been on (or at least that is my perception). They seem to glide much better than other GS boards I have tried. True for both the 21m i-GS (2003/2004 version) and for the RD (24m radius ski). That is the ski for trucking down some steep, icy groomer at 50mph! I am sure I would be dog-slow in the course on that 24m ski, though, but it is a fun weekday/empty hill ride, for sure!
post #7 of 22
Thread Starter 
dawgcatching - I have ordered a pair of new i-SL RD length 165cm. Do you have these skiis as well? If you do or if you have been skiing on them, can you tell me something about them. On the net there is very limited information and on the head www site they are not listed at all.

I am thinking of also buying the GS mentioned above since they are so cheap, but maybe I should wait for the SL's to arrive and try them out first before blowing out too much money at once. Still go to pay for that new drumset I bought for the "kids" for x-mas....
post #8 of 22
The i-SL RD is a great ski! I may buy a pair for myself, for free-skiing. Similiar in feel to the Fischer WC SL, but a little snappier and lighter (the Fischer feels heavy and stiff for a light person like myself at 155lbs). The Heads are a great high-speed free ski when up on edge (that is when I would use them, I am not running gates this season). I haven't spent alot of time on race stock slaloms-the only skis I have experience with is the Fischer WC SL, Elan SLX WC, and Head i-SL RD. I would say that the Elan is the lightest, quickest, and snappiest of the three, the Head is a bit more damp and smooth, and the Fischer feels the heaviest of the three-probably not super damp, just stiff (I coudn't get alot of speed out of the ski, although it was very easy to turn-just too stiff for me). The Head has a nice feel-similiar to the i-GS RD-plenty stable and predictable for free skiing, but with lots of power in the course-a good, medium flex that allows me to play with turn radius, rather than on the Fischer, where I basically put the ski on edge but could get very little flex or rebound out of it. But, all of those skis are very, very good-the Elan rocks as well, but is a lighter feel (some may like it, some may not-I loved it). I also hear VERY good things about the Blizzard Sigma SL, although they can be hard to find.
post #9 of 22
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the information dawgcatching. I am waiting for the i-SL RD's like kids on santa. Today I went and had a look at the last seasons i-GS RD that they sell for under 400USD incl. binding in a local shop. It was the same color I had on my slalom skiis last year, silver, and they were 190cm long with a turn radius of 21m. If they had been 180cm long I would have taken them but the length scares me a bit. They have this very cool, slim and sexy look. However, Im 6 foot 2 (190cm) and around 200 pounds in weight so maybe the length is ok for me. Im a ski instructor and like to go fast but maybe the i-SL's are good enough to occationally cover 35m/h GS carving on pist as well.
post #10 of 22
To come back to the original question.
The 03/04 GS RD is the same as 04/05 (some flex modifications are possible), the plate by VIST is different.
190 cm: 103.4-67-89.1/26.5 radius
Each length 170/175/180/185/190 cm has specific dimensions and radiuses 21.4 - 26.5 m
Then there is also an even stiffer 195 cm model with different dimensions (narrower shovel, the radius must be around 28 m).
The iGS is the continuation of the former GS race ski. It has unchanged dimensions 102-63-88/180 cm/21.5 m and from 2002 it has been presented as a "second" GS ski, more tolerant and user-friendly, thus probably detuned compared to the race ski of 2001/2002.
A friend of mine races FIS as a first-year junior (born 1989) and he has used the GS RD 190 cm since he was not even 15. In some tight gates he still has some problems but generally he does fine on them.
An accomplished skier skiing them free should, IMO, have no problems.
OTOH, I know quite a lot of people running away in horror on hearing of a radis exceeding 20 meters.
The same opinion might be frequent in the US where, as I learned here, thousands of racers of various under-FIS levels could till recently enjoy the USSA special approach to the FIS requirements.
185 cm might be a better length, though. Not because of the 5 cm but because it´s the ladies´ length and the skis available should be softer in flex.
Whereas 190 cm is for men now and the skis tend to be/will be stiffer.
Which in Head GS skis means really stiff.
post #11 of 22
Thread Starter 
Thanks checkracer for the extensive information. I was looking at your profile and I wonder what kind of skiis you are currently using and were you are skiing in Austria.

Back to original issue, there is this shop that sells two pair of skiis in question for 345 EURO. They only have this one length. The short ones they sold quickly during last season but these two are left overs. They include bindings so they are a bargain. Looking at your profile I see that you are using lots of skiis so maybe I should abandone this one ski per season attitude?

I have the SL RD ordered and I will recieve them soon so what I need now is for you to tell me some very good reasons why I should get the GL's. Im a ski instructor and I teach part time, love speed and go to the alps, north of Finland and Norway several times a year for work and enjoyment. Or will the SL's be ok as a allrounders?
post #12 of 22
You only can get my personal preference.
I´m a big fan of serious GS skis in no-nonsense lengths. Not that I spend my life on 4 km long and 100 m wide "autobahnen" in the Alps but I simply don´t see why a 15-meter-radius turn accomplished on a 21-24-meter-radius ski wouldn´t be appropriate on most of runs exceeding a bunny hill.
I still take part in some regional races where FIS specifics are required.
And, last but not least, you don´t get anything cheap from a true GS ski. It makes you work hard, it has enough muscle not to let you prevail, it can "teach" you the art of a perfect high-speed GS turn.
A true GS ski tells men from boys.
As we know today´s skis (including even the racestock GS) are generally softer in flex and therefore easier to handle.
I ski:
a Dynastar GS in 192 cm: a very, very stiff beast but perfect for fast longer turns and skiing free
an older Salomon 190 cm LAB GS, originally a ladies´ raceski: fairly soft, highly enjoyable
as rock skis Head GS 185 cm, now also a softie and almost a SL-ski
(further, as seen in my profile, a Fischer SG 209 cm, fairly stiff but a great ski)
Then some other skis as well because I participate in development and marketing of the Cuech ski brand Sporten
My "home ski area", "Stammgebiet" in the Alps is Kaunertal/Pitztal/Fendels (all under one seasonal card).
As to the SL ski: I think it is a perfect ski teacher´s tool and a ski to have lots of fun with.
OTOH, I can´t imagine it as the only ski to satisfy all needs of a good skier if only on groomers.
The Head GS are with high-end VIST Worldcup plates and Tyrolia bindings which make it a real bargain difficult to resist.
At 190 cm I would try to get some more discount:
skis that long are practically unsaleable except to a few freaks like me (and you?)
post #13 of 22
tdk6, not to forget, congratulations! Tanja P. is awesome this season. And I look forward to Kalle P. showing in last year´s shape.

That´s Finland: a small Nokia-country with no real mountains but having some excellent alpine skiers and owning the BIG Atomic/Dynamic brands
post #14 of 22
Thread Starter 
checkracer, thanx. Yes, the Heads are hard to resist since they have the vist plate and tyrolia race bindings but I just talked to a master coach and he was telling me I would be better off with 16m radius race-carvers. He doughted I would be able to ski them on the edge. He also said that most GS courses are set too tight for 26m r and there he has a point. Ill take your advise and go and try to get still some % off the price. If they are still in the shop next week maybe they will give me a true offer I cannot resist

Thanks for all your kind words on our WC skiiers here in Finland. Its true, we dont have many mountains but our alpine program has shown some nice results in the last 2 years. Palander is still to find his shape in GS but on the other hand the courses have been set too fast for him. Tanja is great however. There was a big scandal last year when Palander said in a newspaper "Tanja, change ski brand if you want to winn!!!" This caused a big scandal because Palander swiched from Rossignol to Atomic and instantly became incredible successfull. So now when Tanja swiched to Wölkl from Rossignol and started to winn Palander cannot but smile
post #15 of 22
Yes, that with the GS courses is right. Those Atomic beasts with 27 or even more radius are good for some Worldcup or Continental cup races and races with corresponding FIS points.
We mere mortals (i) don´t have the skills and speeds and strength and (ii) mostly don´t find a race with gates that open to be able to use the ski´s potential.
It´a problem with me, too.
OTOH, I thought you were going to use the skis for skiing free, not for some sort of (Masters) racing where the smallest radius possible (21) and length at the limit (180, I suppose) would be of advantage on most GS courses.
Skiing free is skiing free - no or little dictatorship as to the line or timing, hence the big radius should be just the matter of enough space.

Your race success shows that under good professional people some highly talented and hardworking individuals may succeed even if the (theoretical)odds are against them.
It´s good for the sport and for other countries than those "Toni and Vroni" bastions in the Alps
post #16 of 22
Thread Starter 
Actually I would use the ski for free skiing not racing gates. And Im going to give lessons in "retro alpine skiing Austrian style 1957". For this these skiis would be more than perfect.
post #17 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdk6
And Im going to give lessons in "retro alpine skiing Austrian style 1957". For this these skiis would be more than perfect.
Sounds great!
Unfortunately, there will still be 20-25 cm of length missing
But still better than some hyperslaloms
I´m only not sure if you manage all those twistings, counterrotation and Fersendrehschub with today´s boots
I experienced a well-known German Walter Kuchler (you may know the name of this carving guru) giving a brief summary of ski techniques. He´s born 1932 and the 50´s were the time of his first exams.
It was fun, interesting and instructive.
Good luck! Long live Stefan Kruckenhauser!
post #18 of 22
Just got back from demoing the 2005 i-Race (the old i-GS with different plate) and it is softer than the previous i-GS models, mostly due to the new Carve plate. The plate flexes and has dampeners, and is nowhere as stiff as the VIST that used to come on the i-GS RD. Makes the ski much more user friendly-you may want to check that one out as well, if you want a friendly 21m ski, much like the Dynastar Course 66.
post #19 of 22
Thread Starter 
checkracer - my mother became a ski instructor in Austria in the late 50's and she has a book with the name "Österreichischer Schi-Lehrplan" printed in 1957. Just to avoid debate weather I teach correct or not I will refer to this book. Great book. Skiing has not changed a bit....... well maybe a little and your right about the boots, but my fathers boots dont fit..... too small however, they are from the 60's.

dawgcatching - ok, so the new ones are softer. Sounds like they would be a better option for me and especially since I could take them in the length of 180cm but that would be 500USD extra
post #20 of 22
"Österreichischer Schi-Lehrplan" 1957 - Wahnsinn!, as the German-speaking world says.
It´s classic and history and valuable already now
BTW, I have MY fathers ski boots from 1962, sized 45 - only a bit too far from Finland...

As to the new iRace, I see it as a logical development for a "second" ski besides the GS RD.
The i GS has never been offered with a VIST plate here, in a set it always had the standard Tyrolia Carving Plate 13.
The RD has the VIST WCRV
The racestock ski for 04/05 has a slightly different plate by VIST (a no-catalog type)
The former worldcupper Rainer Salzgeber is developing a completely new plate for Head.
post #21 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdk6
And Im going to give lessons in "retro alpine skiing Austrian style 1957". For this these skiis would be more than perfect.
Dr. Walter Kuchler, Erlebte Skigeschichte – Schwünge von 1936 bis heute
post #22 of 22
Thread Starter 

Hogans Heros

checkracer - yeah, good you brought upp Dr. Walter Kuchler's name. Never heard of him or his book. Must be a good one. My book is:

Österreichischer Schi-Lehrplan
by:
Obemann des Österreichischen Berufsschilehrerverbandes Rudi Matt
Skiing technique and theory by:
Prof. E. Koller
Prof. H. Lager
Prof. St. Kruckenhauser
Prof. Fr. Ritschel
Prof. F. Wolfgang
Prof. H. Lager
Min.-R. F. Zdarsky
Daz. Dr. H. Groll
Prof. St. Kruckenhauser

Man, typing this was not as fluid as skiing the "wedeln" correctly

Also thanks for the Head info. However, I think Im going to wait until I get the iSL's before I start spening money on the GL's. I need to sell a guitar...
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