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Atomic vs. Salomon - Page 2

post #31 of 39
Originally Posted by Phil Pugliese
Sorry, it was the Volant PowerKarve. The PK came out in 95, a year or two before the 4X4, Bandit and whatever midfat you want to mention.
I was first on a pair of 4x4s must have been pretty near '95 but could be before they were in the shops. Can't say for sure and I don't remember the PowerKarve either. Could be Volant wasn't even coming into Canada at that point.

Originally Posted by Phil Pugliese
but a blanket statement cannot be made.
Isn't that a blanket statement?
post #32 of 39
I just have to add my two cents in, I have skied both. I skied an older model atomic, before the Beta series. I liked it in the bumps and for just skiing around, it was quick edge to edge. Now I ski on salomon 1080's and I have to say that they are the most user friendly all around ski I have ever had. I have skied a handful of other brands too. I am a lighter skier and the 1080 is not too responsive and does not tire you out cause you aren't fiting it. I know that both brands have their race series and their freeride series, but I think in general salomon is a easier skiing ski. Although I have to say that the 1080 or other salomon freeride models may not hold up to the Beta series on ice. Just my thoughts
post #33 of 39
Waxman, you forgot to mention the aquisition of Salomon by a gigantic German athletic shoe corporation with an almost unlimited marketing budget. What up wit dat?
post #34 of 39
Waxman, i have been holding my tounge for awhile now, and i feel it my duty to correct you on a few things.

1) The Xscream did revolutionize the mid-fat market. True, like Phil said, that the PK was the first, but it did not have the popularity that the Xscream did. If you happened to be skiing at any big mountain, especially out west, from 1998 to 2001 nearly every ski in the lift line was an Xscream. While 4x4's and Bandits were popular, nothing touched the popularity of the Xscream Series. Search this forum, im sure you can find some archives on the Xscream and its sales numbers. I think it was the number one selling ski for several years. Next to the Atomic 9.18 it was the ski that remained in the market for the longest without going through a significant evolution of changes.

2) The 1080 did define a category of skis. What twin tip ski was out there before the 1080? Line wasnt even making twin tip skis yet when that ski was released to pro riders in 1998(?). Originally it badged as part of the Xscream line, but later changed to its own category within the Salomon line. The Olin Mark IV wasnt a new school twin... hell, there werent even terrain parks and half pipes when that ski was released.

3) Salomon hit on something with the Pocket Rocket as well. Before that ski, how many twip tip powder skis could you buy? Search the forums and read the dicussions on the PR, you will find that it received a lot of questions, discussions, and inquiries regarding the fact that it was something that the market had never seen before.

4) On the WC Salomon was second in points last year (mens and womens points totaled). They were about 1,000 points behind Atomic. Try some of their real race products. They are among the best i have ever been on. Their race stock skis are nothing like the skis that they retail to consumers. It really shows the depth of Salomon's knowledge and ability to build skis. They CHOOSE to build their skis like they do. They could easily build a stiff powerful midfat that would smoke the competition, but that isnt what Salomon skier love about the skis.

Dont be blinded by ignorance or disgust for a particular company. The fact of the matter is that they have contributed to the ski industry in a huge way over the last 6 years. Nearly ever high end midfat after the Xscream was compared to it... most companies even adopted the same shape as the Xscream. You didnt see that happen with the PowerKarve, 4X4, or Bandit. Even now when you search this forum, what do people compare skis like the Scratch BC to?... the Pocket Rocket. The same will happen when you look into the twin tip market... the 1080 is the top ski... it is the name that people know as being the 'first.' Even though the Pilot system was a flop at first, look what it did for integrated bindings... did you even know what an integrated binding was until the pilot was released? No. Because there was no such thing. Many companies are still scrambling to develop a system to compete with the Pilot. Do some research and you will find that Salomon has been behind many major developments in the ski industry. They are not your average ski company.


post #35 of 39
Originally Posted by airjunkie2000
Although I have to say that the 1080 or other salomon freeride models may not hold up to the Beta series on ice.
I ski on the 1080s and on the M11s and I am impressed with the 1080s ability to hold an edge if they have a 3 degree side bevel on them. I guess I wasn't expecting much based on reading reviews here. They do have a pretty low speed limit and tend to wash out because of the turned up tail.

I wouldn't say it even comes close to my Atomics for edge hold but I have the Sallies for a fun ski when the conditions are soft and I want to spend all day in the bumps.

I am gonna rip on the Atomics tomorrow at the Loaf if everything is groomed out.

Hayburner and Narrow Gauge here I come.
post #36 of 39
Heluvaskier - Heluvanarticle ( I think it deservers to be called an article ). I toyed with head and k2 before settling on salomon and have been very happy, especially with my latest salomon acquisition.
post #37 of 39
Heluvaskier, you hit the nail on the head!!!
post #38 of 39
A great summary, Greg.
Seeing Greg´s effort I feel obliged to add some European perspective.
As you know the market of the Old World is almost 3 times bigger than US + Canada, though not for all ski categories. The role and image Salomon has here is therefore not unimportant.
Yes Nr. 1: X-Scream
the longest-serving ski on the market without any change in dimensions (even later than 9.18 which had kept the name but changed the shape). An extremely important ski in the midfat category preparing the way for current allmountain skis
Yes Nr. 2: Teneighty
Yes Nr. 3: Pocket Rocket
Yes Nr. 4: race stock skis.
As I mentioned in another similar thread and as many of us know the LAB skis are different and beeefy enough.
It might have been some sort of a mistake by Salomon to "keep them secret" until now. Who knows whether it was the policy of Salomon or that of the "gigantic German athletic shoe corporation"?
An example: in a race ski demo on one of the Austrian glaciers this spring Salomon was the only company to present its retail GS instead of the racestock LAB.
True, Salomon WAS NOT among the first to jump on the "carving" bandwaggon back in 1995/96 but then, as Greg put it, "they have contributed to the ski industry in a huge way over the last 6 years" (maybe the last couple years under Adidas are not so brilliant anymore).
The image of Salomon over the wildest years of the "shaped revolution" was, at least within the industry and among insiders in Europe, that of a trendsetter.
Salomon has been known for having the best trend researchers and visioners. I can remember an international meeting on a highest level with people from R&D and marketing from all major ski manufacturers around 1999 where one of them put it that way:
"... or will we again just be sitting and waiting for what Salomon comes with?"

I´m no Salomon rep, nor a fan and I only have one older Salomon GS LAB ski.
I only see what I see and say what I know.
post #39 of 39
Originally Posted by Phil Pugliese
Sorry, it was the Volant PowerKarve. The PK came out in 95, a year or two before the 4X4, Bandit and whatever midfat you want to mention.
Thank you for clearing that up for those people who think Salomon invented the catagory. Salomon actually copied Volants PowerKarve footprint and tweaked it by 1 mm to get the original Scream. I worked in the Volant factory through those years until they sold to Atomic. We were way ahead of the market for midfats(PowerKarve), fats(Chubb) and for twin tipped fats(Huckster). Volant was the innovator of most of the catagories of skis we ski today. I'm mounting up a pair of 183cm Hucksters with my tele bindings tomorrow.

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