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Can an all-moutain, off-piste ski be good in the moguls?

post #1 of 23
Thread Starter 
Hi,

Considering the insane amount of skis to choose from, I'm a little bit overwhelmed at the moment. I'm looking for a good all mountain ski that's decent in the bumps. I grew up skiing Mary Jane, so I'm a bump skiier by heart, but I also love steeps and will be skiing plenty off-piste this season. I'm in Montana; good in powder would be nice as well. There has to be some ski out there for me.
I'm 6'1", 180-190lbs, and I'd say I'm a somewhere around level 8.

So.... I'm seriously thinking about getting a dedicated mogul ski (Volkl Dragonslayer, at the moment) and then an all-mountain ski that's *decent* in the moguls. I've been looking at the Fischer Big Stix 8.0/8.6, Dynastar Troublemakers (or signatures.... if they are any different), Head Mad Trix/MOJO, Volkl Karmas, Atomic Tweak/Stomp, and the Head Monster i.M 75 Chip SR2/85 (I love how Head keeps their names simple : ). Twin tips would be nice but not nessecary if a lot of performance is sacrificed as I don't ski the park much. What do you guys think of these? Any other suggestions? Also, how do the Dragonslayers compare to something like the Rossi Scratch Mogul or Dynastar Twisters for a mogul ski?

I skiied the B2's last year and liked them a lot, but the store that I have to buy my all mountain skis from (long story) doesn't carry Rossignol (or K2, for that matter).

I would greatly appreciate any advice.
Have fun on the slopes.

Cheers,
Adam
post #2 of 23
I guess it all depends on your style of skiing in the bumps. Remember how we used to ski bumps with 205 long slalom skiis back in the 70s and the 80s.... Last year I had a pair of Head iSL slalom skiis and I went to Verbier for a long weekend and skiied bumps. We made some video stuff and it came out great. Those short 165s with an additional 10mm raiser plate over the FIS standard worked like a dream. Bumps are not as equipment critical as other alpine diciplines. The straighter the skiis the better. You dont want a wide showel or a wide tail in bumps but all mountain skiis dont have that do they. Like the Head Monsters, they should be ok in a length of 170.
post #3 of 23

Elan Mantis 662

Have you thought about the Elan Mantis 662 or 666? I have a pair of 662s and, while they are not designed to be "mogul skis", for a mid-fat all-mountain ski they do much better in bumps than I would have imagined. I was thinking to getting a pair of mogul-specific skis but I really don't feel the need with the mantis 662s.
post #4 of 23
Fischer Big Stix 8.6? Nope. Turning radius - 26m. I ski these boards along with two different skis (Fischer WC SC and Black Diamond Havoc) depending on the day/area/use. Would NOT think of the Big Stix as a bump ski unless the bumps had 2 feet of pow or chop on top. But then I'm not Glen Plake.

Pocket Rockets or 1080s maybe?

the new Metron B5 maybe?
post #5 of 23
I grew up on a small mountain that numerous people have compared to Mary Jane. Once the snow was packed down the only way to keep amused was to ski the bowl and all the moguls. I'm now in Montana and still enjoy moguls, especially the big, soft ones we get here.

Last season I went looking for my everyday ski. It needed to be decent in powder, good in crud & moguls and not totally suck on the groomers. I ended up narrowing my choices down to the Volkl V-Pro and Salomon 1080. I ended up with V-Pros because of a deal I got but would have been just as happy with the 1080s.

Basically, what you are looking for is a ski with a waist in the mid-70s to low-80s with a moderate flex and a forgiving tip. Skis I would recommend looking at are the Rossignol Scratch FS, Salomon 1080 and the Salomon Scream Limited (which is the 1080 without the twintip). If you want more groomer performance look at the Fischer Big Styx 76, Rossignol B2 and the Stockli Stormrider AT. The Metron B5 might be a good choice, also.

As for mogul specific models, avoid them like the plague. They are too specialized to be used on anything but moguls here in Montana.
post #6 of 23
I agree with Rio, I think the secret is finding a ski with an even flex so that it will not throw you around in the bumps and still work in everything else. Based on my experience, Rio's recommendations on waist width and tip flex are right on.

I patrolled in Montana for 5 years and they have lots of bizzare snow conditions. For overall enjoyment you need a crud ski first. Get something that is damp, so don't be afraid of a little heavier ski. Uness you are going for the pro tour, any decent even flexing ski with a good side cut should allow you to ski the bumps without a problem. I know you said it was a hassel getting them, but from what you described I would suggest the B2, otherwise Rio had some excellent recommendations.
post #7 of 23
Thread Starter 
Thanks for all the help everyone.

Totally going against Rio's advice, I ended up getting a pair of dragon slayers ($243 through e-bay, seemed like a good deal) for those days I want to zipper-line. Yes, I know, that's all I can do with them, but that's the plan .

Now for the harder descision. I'm trying to stay away from foam-core skis (I tend to destory them really quickly), so the PR's and 1080's are not really on my list (correct me if either of these are not foam core). Plus, I don't think the shop I'm kinda restricted to carries them, nor do they carry Elan's. So those are out as well.

About the Metron B:5: the highest size they come in is 170 (again, correct me if I'm wrong). I personally feel much better on 180 or above. Will they still work for me?

Rio: How about the BigStyx 8.0? How do they compare?

TDK6: Yea, I remember those days (although they were the late 90's for me). I skied moguls on 204 RD Coyotes for a while and had a blast.

I'm kinda leaning towards the Troublemakers at the moment. Any of you have experience with these? If only Volkl still made the V-Pro. I think I'd go with those if they did.

Thanks again guys.

Cheers,
Adam
post #8 of 23
Red -right on the foam core thing - get a wood core , I dont think the shape is a big deal , people make a big deal out of it but I do fine with shaped skis in the bumps and I am sure you will too.

you prob know this but just make sure that whatever ski you get it doesnt have any metal laminate or you will probably bend them - many of my skis have met their end this way
post #9 of 23
Red -

I'm not very familiar with the Big Styx 8.0. We only have one Fischer dealer in the area and they tend to stay away from twin-tips. Sounds like the 8.0 might be ideal though. Here is what Pete Keelty's site says about them:

Quote:
Technically a twin-tip park and pipe ski, the 8.0 is a superb all mountain ski. A large number of test skiers praised its prowess in bumps and trees and deep snow, largely because of the turned up tail, but the ski also carves very well and holds the arc through even big turns on hard snow.
post #10 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Skye
...I ended up getting a pair of dragon slayers ($243 through e-bay, seemed like a good deal) .

...Plus, I don't think the shop I'm kinda restricted to carries them, nor do they carry Elan's. So those are out as well.
So you'll go to eBay for a deal on Slayers and then make the statement that you are restricted to buying from a certain shop? I don't follow the logic there...

BTW, you're in MT...DEMO
post #11 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandit Man
So you'll go to eBay for a deal on Slayers and then make the statement that you are restricted to buying from a certain shop? I don't follow the logic there...

BTW, you're in MT...DEMO
Yea, I know. I just need to find which skis to demo... can't try all of em.
The other problem is that I'm going to be really busy for the next few weeks, after which im going to Texas for Christmas, and I'd like to get the skis before I leave. That leaves me with like a day or two with which to demo.

If you really wanna know, here's the whole story:

I have a pair of Atomic R9.22 from last year that I'm trying to get rid (brand new, unpunched). One of the guys at a local shop is willing to give me $200-$250 trade in value for them. This would definately save me a lot of hassle, and he has a fairly good deal running anyway. And I don't think he'll do this after Christmas. He's the only one in town that's willing to do this that I have so far come across.
post #12 of 23
What about the Dynastar Legend 8000? Many here sing the praises of the 8000, so it might be worth a try.
post #13 of 23
Thread Starter 
Thx tumbler... I'll give those a shot.
post #14 of 23
I pretty much ski like you do. Bumps all day (on bumps skis), but want a ski as an option for when I travel west (I do live east coast).

I have a few friends that used to be competitive bump skiers. They ski at Mary Jane. They have their Dynastar Twister bump skis, and a lot of them are on Dynastar Troublemakers as their all mountain ski that does all right on the bumps.
post #15 of 23
Thread Starter 
Thanks Mack... They are definately at the top of my list.

BTW, do you have any idea how the twisters compare to the dragonslayers?
post #16 of 23
I've never skied the Dragonslayer, but I'll say this. If you want a zipper line bump ski.. I don't think you can go wrong with any of the zipper line bump skis. They might have their subtle differences one to the other, but bottom line, they are zipper line bump skis and they are all used with success on the World Cup and competitive Noram circuit. For example; Dave Babic (US Ski Team - A team, Moguls) skis on the Twister, Travis Mayer (silver medalist) skis on the Dragonslayer, Travis Cabral skis on the K2 Cabrawler (his design) and used to ski on the Power Mamba (I think), Moseley used to ski on the Head Mad Trix Mogul, and I know some ski on the Rossi Mogul and Salomon 1080 mogul (I just forget specifically who).

All those guys rip, and are all competitive. So one ski can't really be that much better than the rest.

Now, with that said. The Dragonslayer is a lot more 'straight' than the Twister. The dimensions for the Dragonslayer are 94-66-80 with a 29.3 radius at 180. The dimensions for the Twister are 98-66-85 with a 22m @ 175cm. That's one of the reasons I went with the Twister. For the specialized mogul skis, it seemed a little bit wider and had a shorter radius.. so I thought it would be better than the Dragonslayer for those awful times I have to ski groomers with my wife or getting to/from the lift. I believe the Rossi Mogul, like the Twister, is also more 'versatile' (and I am using that word loosely.. since a specialized mogul ski isn't really that versatile) than the Dragonslayer. I think the 1080 Mogul is probably somewhere in the middle (but I'd have to look at the dimensions) - just google them.

Anyway. I personally started skiing on the Twisters, and got real used to them.. so I am afraid of 'switching' to a mogul ski with a different sidecut and widths.. so I personally stay with the Twister. However, I am sure you can't go wrong with any of them.
post #17 of 23
Red Skye,

tomorrow is Demo Day at The Big Mountain, so if you can manage a trip there you might get lots of demo chances. I went to their demo day 4 years ago and had LOTS of great skis to try, including the bombastic Stockli Stormriders.
post #18 of 23
I think the main thing for a all mountain ski to be good is that interface between the boots and the poles. I know if I am off of my "game" it doesn't matter what I am on, I will be all over the place and vice-versa, If I am "on", I could be on some intermediate "aspiring carver" skis, and I will rip.

Past that some common sence will prevail...a 66mm wide ski is not a greal all mountian ski, a 80mm ski will be sluggish edge to edge. anything from 70-75mm, which coincidently a "popular all mountain ski" is gouing to be bood in the bumps. And the last I checked, bumpts tend to be on the mountain so being part of the "all mountain" perameters.
post #19 of 23
The trouble is that most all mountain skis have some kind of metal and it's only a matter of time until you hit a bump the wrong way.

I bent my Atomic R11s last year and some people were like, "well that's what you get for taking it in the bumps"

Stupid me thought that bumps were included in the all mountain category.

The 1080s with an 80mm waist are not that bad edge to edge.
post #20 of 23
good reminder, Scalce.

I ruined a nice pair of Olin Mark VI Comp GS skis that way, back in the day when I skied 202cm GS boards as "all mountain"
post #21 of 23
Thread Starter 
Thanks again guys.

Gonzo: How far is Big Mountain from Bozeman? I would love to do that.

Mack: Sounds like the twister might be a better ski when not skiing moguls. Hopefully, I'll be able to stay off the groomers on my zipper-line days.

By metal, you mean in the core, right? As opposed to fiberglass?
I think the Head i.M 75's might have metal in them. I'm sure most of the twin tips have fiberglass rather than metal.

A few more questions for you guys: I've skiied on fairly soft skis all my life. I like them, but I'm thinking of moving towards a stiffer, more stable ski that doesnt wobble at speed. I'm going to start skiing a lot more steep stuff, and something solid under foot would be nice. Now, softer ski's are not quite as stable, right? And I hear the Troublemakers are somewhat noodly. Would they hold up on steeps?

Of course, stiffer skis go against my original intent but as long as they are half-way competent in the moguls, I can do the rest. I now do have mogul skis after all. There's a pair of Volkl 180 V-Pro's on ebay right now which I'm looking at. Are those long enough for me? And what do you guys think of those (I know they'd probably not be great in the moguls, but you can't have everything)? If I did go with those, I would have a pair of Atomic R:9's to get rid of. I'm sure someone here would be interested.

Thanks for your patience. I'm very new to this "shaped ski" thing, and all of your help has been greatly appreciated.
post #22 of 23
If you're real good in moguls, you can take your mogul specific ski anywhere on the mountain. I remember about ten years ago, we would ski moguls most of the day then cruise the rest of the mountain for trees and powder stashes. Now we're spoiled. We need three different skis in the quiver for specific conditions or terrain.

Now that I'm older and can't ski bumps all day, I have a ski that performs well in all terrain and conditions. That would be the Rossi B2. Today, I picked up my new B3's just to have in Colorado when I trip out there. I'll leave them there so I won't have to cart skis all over the country anymore.

I guess you could say that I am spoiled.
post #23 of 23
Thread Starter 
Yup. Definately spoiled.

Yea, the B2's are a nice ski. I really hate the graphics, though, and they're a bit expensive for my taste. But if I can sell my Atomic's here, I might end up going for them. Thanks.

Any opinions on the V-Pro's?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lars
If you're real good in moguls, you can take your mogul specific ski anywhere on the mountain. I remember about ten years ago, we would ski moguls most of the day then cruise the rest of the mountain for trees and powder stashes. Now we're spoiled. We need three different skis in the quiver for specific conditions or terrain.

Now that I'm older and can't ski bumps all day, I have a ski that performs well in all terrain and conditions. That would be the Rossi B2. Today, I picked up my new B3's just to have in Colorado when I trip out there. I'll leave them there so I won't have to cart skis all over the country anymore.

I guess you could say that I am spoiled.
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