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A comment on binding mount position - Page 2

post #31 of 38
Originally Posted by whipper View Post
My Head race stocks are mounted sugested by head. They acualy came from head mounted with some matching race binding works great for GS only.:They only work at high speed GS turns perfictly! Lots of fun at a recreational ski hill like Sun peaks or were theres powder cement and no trees to dodge.: P.S. dropcliftsnotbombs I checked out Wagner Custom skis!! SSWWWEEEETTT! Do you work there as a skimaker? very cool Pow skis! P.S.S One more simple thing. Shouldnt you just mount your binding so that the boot length is centered in the narowest part of the ski regardless of boot size? that way your entire foot bed is over the most articulating contact point?
My sense of humor regarding "dorking-out" on technical issues is obviously not perceived as humor by some on this board! Yes, I'm a consultant for Wagner Custom.(I can dork-out with the best of them!) We try to put the boot midsole slightly behind the true waist of the ski. Most often it comes out to between the waist and 1.5cm back for the midsole mark.
Some on here think that they NEED to constantly screw with their gear. I often like to point out that our gear only exists so that we can enjoy the experience. We are not skiing merely to experience the joy of our gear are we?!
post #32 of 38
Originally Posted by bud heishman View Post
And don't listen to this fool!: He is obviously numb from the neck down or only skis neck deep powder which would explain the numbness!

Let's see, Let's do everything we can to make skiing more difficult to master. After all why would anyone want to improve on there equipment out of the wrapper? I will bet you don't even tune or wax your skis either?

Tell us have you ever experimented with any of the things you denounce? If so, can you say that you could not tell any differences for better or worse?... on firm snow.

With this kind of attitude toward skiing you will certainly never be as good as you could be!

If all you ski is powder, I might agree that some of your points are much less critical than on firmer snow, but your statement is kinda blanket like which is very far from reality IMO.
My statement was "tongue-n-cheek" in case you missed it. I'm a tech weenie just like you, maybe worse! I was just reminding everyone that you can never experience true skiing bliss/nirvana if you are constantly thinking about how the last "tweak" you did with your gear was working.
Simplify and experience true skiing bliss-out!!
post #33 of 38
No sweet! Must be nice haveing the pick of the litter all the time at Wagner. Cool web site and cooler Skis!!:http://www.wagnerskis.com/portfolio/italianebony.php
post #34 of 38
Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
This is a good question. For those people who are agressive, a racer or young and foolish I would say to leave the bindings mounted in a rearward position. That is especially true if you are going to race seriously.

Mounting the bindings forward allows a skier to relax and not really pressure the fronts of the boots at all. A change of technique is required once you move the bindings forward. Once forward, most recreational skiers are in a position to very easily initiate the turn with just a little forward motion. That allows the skier to just roll from edge to edge effortlessly. A lot of power can build up in the turns but with the bindings forward you just stay centered over the skis and feel the power instead of work yourself and the skis.

A few lessons would not be a bad idea once you move the bindings forward. With the bindings mounted rearward, most recreational skiers do not move enough to really engage the tips and are forced to up-unweight to initiate the new turn. Once forward, the up-unweighting will raise hell with your new mounting position. The skis will seem grabby and and the tails will not want to shove to the side at the top of the turn. You need to learn how to just relax for once roll them on edge and let the ski tips seek the fall line. In other words. The new mounting positions are ideal and take advantage of the modern shaped ski.
Dam I mist this part totaly!! i still ski very agressavly and today first time in the deep stuff with BOF I found at high speeds in the powder that my natural way of skiing pow was out of wack big time. When i mouted this way BOF center of ski running surface this corolated to 7cm forward of the center line on the ski to the center mark on the boot. So I was skiing 3 inches off the manufactureres design for the skis recomended possition. I am remouting these bindings to see how they perform at the back position COB. Hart has been out of action for a while so maybe they have exacted were to mount there bindings in an effort to give the skier who buys there skis the best position for the ski to perform how it was intended. Thats what I gathered from this little experament. secondly while takeing some big air I noticed while I was 20ft in the air that with this bof position it felt pretty good untill I landed at 40+mph 60ft down the moutian and had to make some moves to get in the line again. It just didnt feel good at speed and i wasnt as confedent skiing at speed in this position it made the skiis very jumpy feeling not stable at all. This was the whole point of buying these skis was to go faster and harder. Not stand up and laly gag down the hill. Big fast GS turns were no man dare to go.
Any way now that ive vented my frustrations ill get to work takeing these bindings off again fill the HOLES and remout . Later James
post #35 of 38
Whipper, I am curious to know how things worked with the bindings moved back. My guess is that going all the way back to the Ski's standard mount point will be too far back. On most of my skis 1 cm forward has worked, but I got some Sweet Daddy's and had them mounted 1 cm forward before reading this thread. I still feel too far back on them and will try to remount 1 cm more forward, or put on a set of Tyrolias that I have in back up that give some adjustment. I do wish it was easy to move bindings several centimeters forward and back.

Interestingly, too far back in powder does not work for me at all. I can't initiate the turn without driving forward, which you don't want to do in powder. Later, LewBob
post #36 of 38
I personally don't seem to like a forward mount point. I downsized my boots from a 325 to a 316 BSL, and just adjusted the heelpiece of my 184 Volkl Mantra to fit the new boots. Skis were originally mounted on the line and worked well in both powder and eastern hardpack, with some tip diving on deep flat runouts but otherwise acceptable. I didn't think being 7mm forward of the line would make a difference on hardpack, maybe powder, but not on eastern boilerplate. I was very wrong. Despite a forward mount supposedly improving groomer skiing, I have much worse edge grip now and need to really drop my hips and tailgun for the ski to feel right. Obviously there are a lot of variables here as the boot is different, but the boot is set up pretty upright which should make it less necessary to force my weight back, not the other way around. Some of this may be ski related as many people think the Mantra is too forward anyway, so going forward of that may be a problem. At any rate, I'm thinking I need to remount these now, since I haven't even tried them in powder which will surely be worse. Does all this sound normal for a forward mount?
post #37 of 38
I think the boot change is a more significant effect, especially if you are at a slightly different angle. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but a more upright boot would seem to result in more pressure on the shins, right? I know when I went to a more forward angle on some boots many years ago, the initial reaction was to feel more pressure on my calves and I needed to lean forward to get off the tails of the skis. I would expect the opposite if you go to a more upright angle.

So you measured the difference to be 7mm from before? That means the majority of the change in boot sole length (BSL) is happening on the front of the boot, which seems odd -- I would have expected a 9mm drop in BSL to only put you about 4mm further forward. A 4mm change would be small. Not imperceptable, but small. 7mm is getting in the noticeable range for sure.

Have you marked off the center of the sidecut to determine exactly where on the ski your ball of foot (BOF) lies? Without doing that to establish a reference, it's all a guess anyhow.
post #38 of 38
Actually I rechecked, its about 6mm forward. This boot actually isn't significantly more upright (krypton pro with the lean shims out) than my modified nordica beast with a 8mm external toe lift that I had before.
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