Originally Posted by Yukon
I havn't read all the 3 pages i missed but let me say to Bcripe that you are wrong. the toyota land cruser is not the most widly used or respected 4x4 in the world that tiltle goes to Land Rover, and its vehicles. here is a sheet of facts about Landies.
The Cruiser guys' main problem with Land Rovers, are always their "legendary" unreliability. This IMHO being the only topic they can vaguely argue. I do not believe LR to be any less reliable as any other 4x4 out there.
What you DO have in a LR is (amongst others):
1. The most capable off-roader (in standard form - any ape can modify the living daylights out of any truck/SUV to greatly enhance off-road ability) available on this planet. The Best 4 x 4 x Far! I have seen Defenders and Disco's do things that defies all logic. Also (fortunately) I have met a lot of guys who do not mind to take their Range Rovers into the ruff stuff. A Rangy (specifically the P38A) will kick a Disco's butt any day of the week - and that says something about a Range Rover! It is not without reason THE Flagship of all Flagships!
The only way the Japs can get a Cruiser to compete with a LR, is to diff-lock every possible set of interacting drivetrain gears on the car. I am sure there is even a button to diff-lock the spare tyre if you look carefully on a Cruiser's dashboard. In contrast, a Defender does the same (and more) with only a CDL (and no Traction Control). No other 4x4 has wheel travel that even approach that of a LR! LR's off-road capability is without equal and therfore the ONLY point that the competition can target a LR on, is to brand it as "unreliable". This is BS!
2. "Membership" to the nicest bunch of responsible off-roaders imaginable (not to mention the camaraderie). When I am on a holiday trip, you can rest assured that almost all LR drivers will greet each other when passing (from a flash of lights, to merely an extention of the index finger from the steering wheel). I specifically mentioned the word "responsible", since I believe (I may be thought of being biased, but I would like to think I am objective) that LR owners are the most responsible towards damage to the environment when off-roading. We do not have to be cowboys and bash everything in site with our 4x4's to prove a point. We have an obligation to leave a trail such that the next guy have the same enjoyment from it as you had.
3. Ownership of a truely Legendary Marque with oodles and oodles of Character and Heritage. Love 'em or Hate 'em, you gotta Respect 'em!
Some Land Rover Trivia: Did you know?
3.1. 70% of all Land Rovers EVER Built is still on the road today??? (So much for that "unreliability debate"!).
3.2. LR (by developing the Range Rover), created the segment of cars we now refer to as "SUV".
3.3. Land Rovers ONLY do important things (for their owners). It is part of the Fabric of Life. It has taken pregnant mothers through snowstorms to hospital, carried rescuers up remote mountains, contributed directly to all of our lives (through peace-time and war). It crossed desserts to deliver food to starving people, explored inaccessible territories to help map the world, built telecommunications networks, brought law and order to hostile places and helped preserved the rarerest of animals from extinction.
3.4. It is claimed that the first car seen by 60% of the developing world's population, is a Land Rover.
3.5. The shape of the Defender, is the most recognisable vehicle shape in the world.
4. As a Disco-owner, you own probably the most Sexiest SUV ever designed. There is something about that shape of a Disco that gives me goosebumps every time I see one!!!
I can proudly say that I do fall into the catagory of guys who will drive nothing else and will keep on buying them so long as I can drive a car!
Sorry for the long story, but I am quite passionate about my Disco (and LRs)
If you plan on taking your Disco off-road a lot, I can recommend the following as first-step enhancements:
1. Ditch the standard tyres. Fit a set of good All-Terrain tyres. I can truly recommend BF Goodridge A/T's. They ROCK!!!!
2. Since your Disco is a 2000 model, it is very likely that your car still has its Centre Differential Lock fitted (but not connected). You will not believe the off-road improvement it offers. This is something that I still need to do on mine also (but I have experienced first-hand what that CDL does when locked).
3. Protective Bush-Bar. Protects the front of the car from (e.g.) branches and it LOOKS COOL (especially when some aux driving lights are fitted)!!!! Something like an ARB will obviously also enhance the approach angle!
4. Long Range Fuel Tanks (espesially helpfull on the V8 )
Anyways - Enjoy your Disco!
PS: My reference to LR above includes only the Defender, Disco and Range Rover. It specifically excludes the Freelander. IMHO, that P.O.S is not fit to carry the Green Oval! (I do realise that it competes in a totally different market segment, but I feel VERY strongly about this. 90% of the whole "unreliability" arguments, stems from Freelander-related problems)
PS2: Credit must go to BBC's Top Gear for the Trivia Info. They one day had a "Tribute to Land Rover" insert that contained most of that stuff! (I'm not THAT smart!)
I copied this from a Land Rover Site, and saved it for future use (as a rebuttal to my jeep loving friend.) But i see it is fit to show it here , now (sorry for length) this is not somthing that i wrote, but i agree with it 100%
Ok now flame away
LOL, Man Land Rover does have good marketing but facts are facts. As far as off road capabilities, they are about the same as Toyotas. Range Rover vs Land Cruiser, 4runner vs Disco (although I agree the Disco is alot bigger). That said, the Range Rover and the Toyota Land Cruiser are the top of the line vehicles from both companies and the most capable. Thats where it ends though.
Even Land Rover, Range Rover people will tell you they are very unreliable. I have one friend who has a 2000 disco and has had 2 trannys put in. Look up any publication, report and even Land Rover / Range Rover websites. They simple cost alot to own and have alot of problems. Look at resale values, they are pathetic! :-).
Regarding lockers on Toyotas, Yes you can lock the axles (on some) and center diff. Thats the best thing for hard core 4x4ing. Didnt the Land Rovers add a center diff lock switch like the Toyotas? Must be a good thing. That doesnt lock the axles. Regarding wheel travel, only the new Land Cruiser has less wheel travel. 1 inch in the front. All the others are pretty close or the same.
The rest of the stuff is propaganda. How could Range Rovers have created SUVs since they came out in 1970 and have only been in the US for 16-17 years? Heck there were Jeep Wagoneers before that and Willys before that and Im sure something else before that. They are not the most common or most trusted. The japs have them beat hands down. And the rest of the stuff...
They are good looking vehicles for sure. But be careful of owning them.
BMWs are not even in the same class as these two and Jeeps. They are more of a car SUV.
Now back to the ski car question, both the 4runner and Land Cruiser are AWD, selectable to 4x4. That is the best if you like to get up there before the roads are plowed after a big dump. Ground clearance does matter. But if your driving plowed icy roads then AWD is good. Traction control is very impressive. I was not a believer until I have had it. If you can, its a marvelous thing that increases safety tenfold.