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Straight ski binding position

post #1 of 11
Thread Starter 
Howdy all - this is my first post, and I hope I've done due diligence in searching through other stuff to find an answer before asking. Anyway ...

I picked up my boards today with new bindings mounted. They're old Volkls, 205 Weltcup RS Explosiv R, with Nordica Grand Prix 90CK boots. New Marker bindings. It appeared that the toe was well forward of the center-of-ski mark shown on the base. In addition, there are markings on the side of the ski (little arrows, numbered 3-11, which the shop guy first said should line up with middle of boot .. 330 + number shown ..., then said it was shoe size middle of boot.) By either indicator, the mounting appears to be about 3 1/2 cm forward of where it should be. So the question: Do the new skis have jigs that would lead to mounting too far forward on an old-school ski? I probably won't notice the difference, but the guy's condescending attitude (chain store) kinda chapped me. I'd like to get 'em redone if I have a legit complaint.
post #2 of 11
Jigs are jigs old or new. Volkls, with their metal sheets can be a bear if you don't know what you are doing...see: chain. Go to a better shop to get these mounted, better yet, mount these on a wall for decoration.
post #3 of 11
This is why they stopped labelling skis like this. Not all boots marked with the same size number have the same boot sole length, thus causing obvious problems with this method. However, it should not be out by anywhere near 3.5cm. My suggetion; take them back, complain they have totally ruined your skis and ask for a credit towards a new pair. This way you can get some skis from this century partially on the store's tab.
post #4 of 11
Thread Starter 
I do admit to being dragged kicking and screaming into the para-b age. And yes, I've committed to this being my last year - I passed up a lovely pair of 207s (WAY newer but still straight Volkls) 2 weeks ago.
TOLOCOMan: the boots mid-sole mark is accurate, though on the paperwork, the boots were marked as 340; the manager I talked to measured them at 337. Allotting the diff between heel/toe would only lead to a 1.5 cm error. I like your suggestion - "totally ruining my skis", but would have a hard time keeping a straight face when I proposed a credit.
Phil (or both): so the jigs I used when working in a shop, you fit to the boot, then there was a line/window to line up over center of ski. Still the same?
Thanks for your help.
post #5 of 11
Yep, it's still the same. For a while some companies went to using a boot toe mark, but all companies that I know of have returned to boot mid-sole. In fact, with all the "systems" out there this has become a mute point. It's pretty much impossible to mess up. One way to check your skis is to see where your boot toe lines up with the half cord of your ski. Where your boot toe on the binding is should be pretty close (within 1/2cm) to the half chord. Nowhere near 3.5cm like yours are. (Before everybody and their brother writes to criticize this method, I know its not perfect but it should give TG an idea of how badly they butchered it.) The only reason I can think of to be out by that much ( and it still shouldn't be that much) is if previous holes forced the tech to move your bindings so the holes didn't overlap. If this was the case a reputable shop still should have called you to explain the situation before they did anything. Hope this helps.
post #6 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by TG_SkiSki
Phil (or both): so the jigs I used when working in a shop, you fit to the boot, then there was a line/window to line up over center of ski. Still the same?
Thanks for your help.
yeah, but I still use the center of the boot. Sometimes they are different.
post #7 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by TG_SkiSki
...They're old Volkls, 205 Weltcup RS Explosiv R...It appeared that the toe was well forward of the center-of-ski mark shown on the base. In addition, there are markings on the side of the ski (little arrows, numbered 3-11...
Phil (or any of the other old time gearheads that occasionally lurk here like Seth Masia), do you remember early in the history of Explosivs when Volkl intentionally put binding marks a couple of cm either forward or backward (I don't remember which) from "normal". Unfortunately, their theory didn't work out, and for years afterwards, shop techs knew they had to compensate for the incorrect labeling.

Since TG_SkiSki's skis are of about the right vintage, might he be running into this problem?

Tom / PM
post #8 of 11
as an old/young tech the trick to the 3-11 scale was to use a salomon or geze jig that gave the boot size(marker may have jigs like this as well?) as well as the boot sole length. the boot size would measure out somewhere between 3-11 (i'm guessing at 337mm thats an 11?) that would be the boot center mark to line up on the ski. so if it was mounted correctly the center point of your boot would be over the 11 arrow.
the 3-11 scale was a confusing way of mounting the toe at 1/2 chord length(which you could also check to see if your bindings are mounted right)
post #9 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhysicsMan
Phil (or any of the other old time gearheads that occasionally lurk here like Seth Masia), do you remember early in the history of Explosivs when Volkl intentionally put binding marks a couple of cm either forward or backward (I don't remember which) from "normal". Unfortunately, their theory didn't work out, and for years afterwards, shop techs knew they had to compensate for the incorrect labeling.

Since TG_SkiSki's skis are of about the right vintage, might he be running into this problem?

Tom / PM

I am not familier with old Volkl lore. Sorry. There is alot I know about older stuff, just not alot with Volkl.
post #10 of 11
Up until (I believe) the era of the P40, the mark on the sidewall of a Volkl ski was intended to be where the toe of the boot is placed. I had a shop screw up a pair of P9's back in the late 80's. They looked freakin' ridiculous..... half a boot sole length too far forward.
If you have multiple marks, with numbers, I would guess that you pick the line with the number that corresponds with your boot sole length, and the toe goes there.

Now, to answer your original question.......

Straight ski binding position.... The correct position to place these bindings would be on a shape ski.
post #11 of 11
Or this, the correct place to position the binding is on a shaped ski. I shiver to think of anyone wasting time and money on straight skis.

Oh well... everybodies different...

PM I do remember hearing that old Volkl, ooops, sometimes new things are not better.
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