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Blue & White GS11m

post #1 of 40
11/12/04 at 8:57pm
Thread Starter 
Wow, My younger boys new GS11m FIS legal GS skis showed up today from Atomic.

They are Blue white & Black with the World Cup plate and very small beta lobes. More of a convential looking torsion box shape.

Anybody seen these Blue/White GS11m's before.

I was kind of in shock.

With the Blue & white skis, Red & white boots & Red Race 6.14 bindings he'll be damn patriotic!
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post #2 of 40
11/13/04 at 2:46am
Yes, I have seen the blue version, but only on TV. The Atomic women all had the blue version in the WC opening GS race. It made me think Atomic had changed colors for alle their GS skis, but then on the men's race the next day they were all on the familiar red ones.
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post #3 of 40
11/13/04 at 7:10am
Sorry, can't explain that one.
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post #4 of 40
11/13/04 at 10:34am
Thread Starter 
I think you have hit on it. Maybe they are the Women's World Cups. Beside being Blue there is almost no beta lobes. Great feeling Flex with 47/37 tip & tail flex.

His SL11s on the other hand have huge beta lobes.
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post #5 of 40
11/14/04 at 8:12am
What World Cup plate is on the skis? One that conforms to the Beta lobes, or one which is flat accross the bottom, like the SG/DH plates? Also, what lengths are marked on the skis?

There are either 2 explanations...

1. Atomic USA is promoting the Bode/Darren World Cup canpaign pretty heavily, so the colours may reflect that 'Go USA!' theme.
2. There was talk of a strong marketing campaign promoting more women freindly race skis. With the signing of Michela Dorfmeister, this was supposed to get more women to Atomic from the perenially strong womens' Rossignol, Volkl and Salomon. There has yet to be an official launch, but as far as internal rumours go, its still on. Maybe when the World Cup kicks off for real, not the autumn teaser.
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post #6 of 40
11/14/04 at 10:16am
Thread Starter 
That would make sense if they were Red, White & Blue but they are Blue, White & Black


It is the all black w/brass insert, flat on the botoom because, really there are no Beta "LObes" on these skis. there is a slightly raised area to mimic Betalobes but it is maybe 1mm high.

I think they are Women's FIS Legal World cups. They measure 183cm (unwound length) which is what is marked on them, but the dimensions measure 101-66-87, and they are marked 104-64-94.

I think it makes them a 23.7 or so sidecut radius. I was going to measure that here shortly.

Always interesting with these guys?
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post #7 of 40
11/14/04 at 8:22pm
The 183 has 24.1m radius. In my Alpine Race catalogue, it lists the 183 with a chassis like last season's. I'm heading to Lake Louise at the end of the month for the World Cup. I can figure it out then.
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post #8 of 40
11/14/04 at 9:29pm
Thread Starter 
I'll be talking to the Race Rep. tomorrow. I'll let you know what I find out! Have a ball at the World Cup races. I am envious & jealous!
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post #9 of 40
11/16/04 at 11:43am
Thread Starter 
I confirmed it. It is The Women's World Cup ski.
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post #10 of 40
11/16/04 at 12:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman
I confirmed it. It is The Women's World Cup ski.
Are you going to break the news to the kid, or is this just between us bears? Boys can take ski gender personally, even if it might be the best performing flex for their weight.
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post #11 of 40
11/16/04 at 12:47pm
An interesting move. Is (or has) any other company had a women-specific racing ski? I can't think of one, but I don't really know. It makes a certain amount of sense for Atomic, who are so much more dominant on the men's WC level than they are on the women's.

It doesn't have flowers on it, does it?
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post #12 of 40
11/16/04 at 1:12pm
Thread Starter 
Salomon had Women's World cups and now that the FIS Rules are different in regard to length for men & women I think it will be common place.

I did just buy him a wig & some cantaloupes to put under his speed suit.

No flowers just Electric Blue/white & black. No beta and a big square cap!
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post #13 of 40
11/18/04 at 10:44am
Why the HECK won't Atomic (and all the others) come clean with the info on the complete line of race stock?

Go ahead and keep super-secret-space-decoder dimensions and construction secret (like other companies are not smart enough to measure/cut skis open, etc), but please just give us the info.
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post #14 of 40
11/18/04 at 10:51am
Thread Starter 
I talked to Atomic Monday. these skis were not supposed to be released until after the Beaver Creek Race. Orders from Atomic in the homeland to Atomic USA. But they ran out of the FIS legal Red/White GS11M and had to release the Blue/White different construction and dimension ski to racers who needed FIS legal equipment for the season. You are right they were keeping them top secret and we didn't even know this is what they were sending us!

Must be part of their marketing and promotional strategy.
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post #15 of 40
11/19/04 at 8:27am
Reason that the info is secret is because it isn't. Its just that things change so fast at the World Cup level that by the time dimensions are made public, they've chaned to something else. And why should Atomic post their current dimensions so that Rossi can copy them? For the rest of the FIS legal skis, they can now be bought through any Atomic retailer dependant on availability. Use a measurer to get all the exterior info you want. If you want to know what's inside, pull out the hacksaw. What does it matter what and how a ski is made like, if it works, use it, if it doesn't don't. With Atomic, the proof is in the pudding.
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post #16 of 40
11/19/04 at 9:20am
Thread Starter 
Betaracer,

1st off you, know I am a big Atomic fan. With that said, no company is going to copy Atomic's dimensions. They could easily get a pair of their WC skis and measure them. And you can't tell me the Tech guys from the ddifferent companies don't talk about this stuff sittn' around having a beer after a race.

Atomic continues to be one of the narrowest GS available. Ross, Fischer and many others have gone the opposite direction with much wider tips & tails. I don't think any of those manufacturers have any intention of copying Atomics dimensions.

As for the Blue & White ski, it has been secret & was not supposed to be released in North America until after the Beaver Creek Race. It just came into the US and was released only because they ran of of FIS legal stock in the Red/White GS11m. This is not the advertised FIS legal ski.

The blue ski is a complete departure from previous Atomic Race ski construction , NO BETA, and I respectfully disagree with you. A racer should know and be informed about everything to do with his or her equipment.

Why shouldn't a racer be made aware of construction, dimensions, materials, recommended bevels, Factory bevels & so forth. How would this be a disadvantage.

Anyway, the flex on these feels round and firm but not too stiff. I looking forward to skiing on my kids trainers. I'll let you know how they are!

Best Regrds!

A-man
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post #17 of 40
11/20/04 at 8:35am
There are a number of things which a racer should know about his equipment, and some things that they should leave to the engineers.

A racer shouldn't need worry about a few things thay have absolutely no control over. Until a racer reaches the World Cup, they can't suggest or request how the ski is made. Until then, a racer can choose shape and flex from a pre-made selection.They can choose which plate they want, and which bindings to mount. Everything though must conform to FIS. Things a racer should be aware of is edge angles and structure, those are the only things they can change for conditions.

As to the skis your son has, they still use the Beta construction utilizing Titanium Powerchannels. The reason for the squared off lobes is to facilitate the use of the flat bottom riser found on DH and SG skis.
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post #18 of 40
11/20/04 at 9:15am
Thread Starter 
There are no lobes. There is an outline on top of the ski maybe a 1/2 mm high. Nothing like the WC GS 11 from last year or the retail skis or the GS11m from this year. This is a completely different ski. I thought they were Magnesium this year. Hence the "m" in GS11m

I never said they had control over any of it. But I don't think it hurts to know what you have.
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post #19 of 40
11/20/04 at 10:35am
Should young racers get the technical details of their skis?
Well, IMO, it´s not necessary but it doesn´t hurt any.
It might help develop the awareness of the material and help produce racers whose feedback is precious when they reach the top level.
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post #20 of 40
11/20/04 at 10:58am
in almost every sport the athlete/driver is handed their equipment/vehicle and told to use them.
even the highest levels of F1/Nascar/skiing have to bow to the engineers when it come to development of their respective gear.
yes, they have feedback but not nearly as much as most people think
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post #21 of 40
11/20/04 at 1:12pm
Thread Starter 
Waxman,

Maybe true of F1 but not ski racing. Have you read any of Bode's or Erik Schlopy's articles on the incredible amount of testing and feedback the manufacturers get from racers. Atomic is constantly testing and changing their WC skis and some of that technology eventually filters down to the retail user.

I never said anywhere that young racers or any racer needed to know about their equipment to give engineers or any one else feedback. I just think you should know as much as possible about all aspects of your gear for your own benefit. You never know when it might become important.
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post #22 of 40
11/20/04 at 2:15pm
I still stand behind what I posted earlier. A racer should know what he has control over... flex, edge angles, grind, turn radius, etc. All the other info is for the parents to wonder about and so they can live vicariously through their children. :P
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post #23 of 40
11/20/04 at 2:26pm
Thread Starter 
Nice try, but that is not true at all! At least not in this houdehold. But you are probably right about many!

Basically you give no credit for having a brain to a 15 & 18 year old who have skied and raced most of their life. They are gear heads too. When you ski more than casually, gear is a big part of the sport. I think this forum is ample proof of the fact that equipment and the hunt for it, understanding and knowledge of it is an integral part of this sport.

They shouldn't care how & what their skis are constructed from, what the dimensions are and so forth because they have no control over that. They have control over changing ski companies and maybe don't want to change to another foam core or wood core ski or mayhbe did better or worse with a wider or narrower waist or tip or tail.

Your ignaorance is bliss and just get on it & ski doesn't fly in IMHO! Young racers should have an innate curosity about all aspects & knowledge of their gear.

Have you come to the realization yet these bluie boards things have no beta!

Maybe I'll post some pics of them!

Anyway fun discussion and you knowe i love to argue !

Over & out!
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post #24 of 40
11/20/04 at 2:30pm
A racer has control over a lot more than that. The way he exercises it: he gets a different pair of skis, made by a different company.
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post #25 of 40
11/20/04 at 2:38pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjjohnston
A racer has control over a lot more than that. The way he exercises it: he gets a different pair of skis, made by a different company.
Thank You SJ!!!!
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post #26 of 40
11/20/04 at 4:37pm
Lets see some pics.
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post #27 of 40
11/20/04 at 5:14pm
Thread Starter 
My camera must have too many mpixels. Even at VGA image size, filee is t00 big for forum upload.

Scale, give me your email address & I'll send them directly to you.
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post #28 of 40
11/20/04 at 8:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman
Your ignaorance is bliss and just get on it & ski doesn't fly in IMHO! Young racers should have an innate curosity about all aspects & knowledge of their gear.

Over & out!
I agree. My 7th grade science fair project sought to quantify the wood vs metal vs fiberglass debate of 1968. I laminated test strips and measured vibration, torsion etc. I was twelve at the time and learned a heck of a lot about skis! I predicted the demise of cracked edges in that project.

Don't talk down to the engineers of tomorrow. Let them wonder. I doubt it slowed down my skiing any.

Newfydog

PS Tell your son I ski on womans race stock gs skis too...Scott Holmers daughter's.
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post #29 of 40
11/20/04 at 9:52pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by newfydog
I agree. My 7th grade science fair project sought to quantify the wood vs metal vs fiberglass debate of 1968. I laminated test strips and measured vibration, torsion etc. I was twelve at the time and learned a heck of a lot about skis! I predicted the demise of cracked edges in that project.

Don't talk down to the engineers of tomorrow. Let them wonder. I doubt it slowed down my skiing any.

Newfydog

PS Tell your son I ski on womans race stock gs skis too...Scott Holmers daughter's.
Right on!

Kelsey probably trained those things really well for you! By the way how is Eric's recovery coming?
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post #30 of 40
11/21/04 at 2:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by newfydog
Tell your son I ski on womans race stock gs skis too...Scott Holmers daughter's.
I got a pair of Volkls P40 F1 which belonged (or at least were tested by) to Alexandra Meissnitzer.
At 193 cm they are fairly beefy planks (sure, it was then...)
Since I didn´t need a fourth GS ski a friend of mine got them and he sometimes skis them (I never did). He has 270 lbs. and is an expert skier.
I also saw the Blizzard GS Michaela Dorfmeister really used a couple years back. Very beefy, thick in the shovel with a substantial top titanium layer.
Sure, today´s race skis of the ladies mentioned must have softer flex.
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