Ever ask, "Do I really ski like I think I do?"

Video.

OOPS! Sorry! Eyes a bit tired from working on something else. Didn't read that.

Let 'em believe what they want. Why does it matter?

I've had to bite my tongue on many occasions. You don't know how many 'Experts' demo skis. I see them go out and come in... I just let them think they are awesome, but I know.... Oh I know.

I figure you let them be a legend in their own mind. I skied with a woman who thought she was going at extreme speed and was mastering the hill. She was barely moving and everything she was doing was wrong. She had fun and I learned patience. I didn't try to pop her bubble, but I didn't ski with her anymore either.

I'm with Epic. If something about anothers self perception bothers us then we'd better start exploring our own issues.

Rick - my instructors are often worried about my perception of my own skiing..... I pay them to make me ski better & often the hardest lessons are the ones that require me to change my thinking......

teachskiljp - I discovered a neat trick this year.... my latest instructor told me I must let go of the bad turns - they are finished & you can only learn how to ski bad turns by concentrating on them.... Instead of fretting about what went wrong in the bad ones I must focus on how the GOOD turns felt....

I think this is where those of us who underestimate our skiing go wrong.... we focus on the bad turns & not on the goal - GOOD turns.... so although we work & work at good skiing we lose the ability to "feel" like a good skier.....

Sounds like the she is a princess in her own little world of reality.


Man: Doctor, I need some help, my brother thinks he is a chicken.

Doctor: Why don't you tell him?

Man: We need the eggs.

Take them out west to someplace like JH, ALta, or Whistler. It did it for me. I went from a know it all expert to a pathetic beginner in one run.

Well, my overly sensitive self senses we are on the same thread of how do you knock someone down from their perch when they think they are better than they really are. I'll turn off my sensitivity and assume you are talking about someone who is trying to get better, but not necessarily listening to the advice they are paying for. I like what my ski school director has taught me that the three goals of instructing, in order, are Safety, Fun, and Learning. If we are on the last goal of learning, you really have to explore the individuals motives and objectives. Why are they paying for lessons? What do they hope to get out of it? These paths will lead to acknowledgement of deficiencies that they want to deal with and allow you focus on what they want to learn, not what you think they should learn. But, we only get to work on learning if we are making sure they are having fun and are safe. For the fun aspect, the last thing you want to do is take them down a notch. We all realize that the more you know, the more you know about how little you used to know. The individual will get there on their own. If the issue is the individual's safety, which we should never judge through our own risk tolerance, then, and only then, would a very private, very direct, and very calm discussion about the issues take place. It requires a non-confrontational demeanor and it will only work if the individual actually thinks you know your stuff. Simply knowing your stuff isn't enough. They have to perceive your expertise. And you have to express it as sincere concern for their safety.

As an instructor you are alot less sesitive about your ability, you know there are better skiers out there and you want to learn from them in order to improve your own skiing. Average Joe/Jane skier is usually alot more sensitve, many times they are the best skier in thier peer group and looked upon as a ski god (I see this with ski clubs all the time). A friend of mine once said that skiing is about ego and assperation (sp?). The ego part comes from the fact that most recreational skiers are very sucessfull in their chosen proffessions.

I dont teach skiing, but I know someone like the person you are talking about. He thinks he is the best skiier on the hill, when all he really can do is go straight down really well. Its his second year skiining, and he thinks he knows everything. I have tried to tell him otherwise, and his ego always gets in the way. Now i just let him go on thinking he is the best, and i just watch. but if it is some one who is open minded, in my opiinion i wouldn't come right out and say you s#^k, I would just say good, but try this next time. and just keep making small corrections until they improve overall.
I dont relly know about teaching but maby (< spelled wrong) you or someone else could build off of this.

This is where the classic "Did you just call me an intuhmediate?" thing comes from.

I love the expert demo'ers that when asked "Type 1, 2, or 3?" say "Ex-racer" or some such nonsense. Word to the wise. We know the truth. Heh.
-Garrett

We are all legends in our own minds to a greater or lesser extent.

But who cares? Skiing should be for the sake of skiing and self enjoyment at whatever level. My late 88 year old friend enjoyed skiing more than anyone I knew....he lived to get up every winter day and ski. Even on a small hill. His days of expert skiing had long passed but not his intense enjoyment of the sport. He grew up skiing and ski jumping and would not give up the sport he loved until he died. He skied about 75 days at 88.

He is gone now but I hope to have the same desire and enjoyment of skiing until I die. He had a good reason to get up and enjoy each day...either to ski, play golf, or prepare for skiing.

I met another man in Crested Butte many years ago. He was 83 and on his 6th ski trip of the winter. He lamented that he had not learned to ski until he retired at 61. At best he was an intermediate but the smile on his face was world class. He did not even think about his skill level....he was just happy to be skiing.

My best days are also past but on some slopes and conditions I can still be a skiing god. At least in my own mind. On others.....?????? We cannot all be 25 year old ski gods arcing turns in the Chugach Mtns while making a movie.

Enjoy, enjoy, enjoy.

Others have already said this, but: why do you want to convince the not-so-good-skier of that?

It's not the same as your "boogers on the face" example, because you can easily wipe those off (unless you've got some kind of condition), and you have to know they're there in order to do so.

Sure, there a slight corollary: you have to believe you're not already a perfect skier in order to learn to get better. But this woman is already taking some lessons. I think it is possible to convince someone there's room for improvement in her skiing, and even where that room is, without having also to convince her that she's terrible.

But, yeah, video is probably the answer. As for your particular case, when the woman was making excuses (tired, whatever), I bet she didn't entirely believe in them herself. Probably even less after a little reflection.

My worst video experience: When I was a kid and racing, they videoed us running slalom (standard stuff now, but unusual then). There was another kid with the same first name as me, and when he came on the screen and someone identified him, I thought it was me (in addition to being unusual, video was black-and-white). I immediately blurted out, "Jeez, I'm awful!" about the same time I realized it was the other guy. He wasn't too pleased with me.

So, if your student isn't taking your instruction, could one conclude that you haven't built up enough trust?

Hi disski, hope all is well, and you had a good season.

You are a dedicated student of the sport in perpetual search of making technical improvements. For one such as yourself the addressing of mental issues that act as obstacles to that improvement is vitally appropriate.

The casual recreational skier who's satisfied with his current skill level, and has found comfort in an illusionary vision of grandeur, is a totally different matter. Why do we feel driven to explode that person’s fantasy? If it's working for him shouldn't we just leave him alone? Could it have something to do with our own insecurities and lack of personal comfort with self?

I run into these people occassionally.

I, myself, am an expert skier. I am a Goddess on skis. I am an Olympic role model. I am so full of doody.

It does annoy when people boast of their skills, and you look at them and wonder what drugs they're on today.

On the other hand, I see those who think they suck, yet they're just awesome. (Remember Jake?) I wish I could be that bad after 4 times on skis!

Both situations are just incredulous, and should be viewed like one observes a new and colorful insect......with wonder.

Why not let her just think she is God's gift to skiing?

If she is annoying don't ski with her.

Take her down a steep bump run and see how she does.

My wife took a Quicktime video of me yesterday at Sunday River and I looked better on video then I felt skiing it. It was our first day out so I was sucking for a few runs.

If I can learn how to edit quicktime video I will post it for some laughs.

Well, it is embarassing to be around someone who insists on giving others advice and talking like an expert, when they are a really BAD skiier! Sure, you can humour them, but that is to be a bit superior, IMO. I'm more puzzled at how they can have such a high opinion of their skiing, when there is evidence all around them that they are not good. It's weird that they can't see that.

It happens in every human endeavor. Some people just don't seem to have an accurate self image. It has always made me very insecure, wondering if I'm one of them. Since they don't have a clue, I wouldn't really know it if I was just like them.

Since you asked the question and are searching for an answer, you probably have a much better idea than those that never do. Just don't get TOO humble or you will err on the other side.

I wish you'd stop talking about me like that

Hmmm this rings a bell.... do you need to be an expert to give advice? Many NHL coaches never played a game in the NHL. Why? They suck. They are really lousy players. Why can't the same thing apply to skiers?

Just because someone gives advice, does not mean they think highly of their skiing. Like the fat dietician, or cigarette smoking doctor, their mantra is "do as I say, not as I do".......

True, a skier that is teaching needs to be able to do clean demonstrations, but doling out advice is a different matter. Or is it?

Cheers!

So what is good skiing, what should the amateurs among us aim at?

The first thing for most of us is to get down the hill without breaking a leg, but apart from survival and control there is the question of whether it looks "right." That look has changed a lot in twenty years. So what should it look like now?

Is it like those Canadian ski instructors http://www.snowproab.com/resources/index.htm that were being strongly criticized on another thread, or is it like those slalom skiers who get that tremendous angulation and keep their feet on rails. The second style looks a lot more fun to me, but the lessons I have had in recent years seem rather to be aiming at the first.

I guess I am a typical black runner - I cope okay but I want to get some more excitement into my skiing.

Fun.