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Help for Hypoglycemic Skier - Page 2

post #31 of 52
Finndog, I didn't say to eat high gi foods, but they have their place I guess. Balance in everything in life. I try to eat all my foods in as natural a state as I can, within reason. I ski with a good oat and honey granola bar in my pocket, and somtimes some trail mix, heavy on the raisins (high gi index). I have a hard time seeing how diet is the overiding contributer to your stamina, unless you are really missing the mark.

My nutrition bible, so to speak, is called "the real age diet" by Dr. Michael Roizen MD. Everything you ever wanted to know about nutrition, well at least all that is really nesassary, and all the studies to back it up. Later, RicB.
post #32 of 52
Thread Starter 
Not sure its a stamina thing. I do know that If I am low, I don't have the energy so better sustaining of energy level=more runs!
post #33 of 52
This is a very interesting (although heavy) link:

It suggests that insulin sensitivity is increase for 16 to 48 hours after exercise. Meaning that blood glucose clearing is improved?

Also that periods of long exertion (90 min +) will deplete glycogen and start the process of fat metabolism. This supports the bad-breath claim -- fat metabolism is via creation of ketones, and then stink. Atkins is one way, but ANY low/no carb diet will do. So will lack of carbs during exercise.

Another link I had found once suggested that one should consume 1 gram of glucose per minute to avoid this depletion, and keep the body at it's highest state of performance. The intent of the slow ingestion of glucose was to ensure no rapid spiking of insulin would develop. I can't locate that now. However, this is another excellent article:

post #34 of 52
Originally Posted by Finndog
Not sure its a stamina thing. I do know that If I am low, I don't have the energy so better sustaining of energy level=more runs!
Well there is evidence that eating for sustained energy is best done by eating nutritious carbs (complex) along with some healthy fats, nuts like almonds ect. to slow up absorption. Any form of simple sugars ect. will cause a spike if eaten by themselves, with an otherwise healthy person. What we eat for lunch has a big impact on the energy available for the afternoon too. Usually if I find myself not performing up to par, it is because of several factors that come together to reduce my performance.

Also in skiing, technique, along with tactics have a big impact on the efficiency of the energy expended, and my long term performance over the day. Later, RicB.
post #35 of 52

You are corect. If you look at endurance sites, and pre-triathalon meals etc, you'll see that exactly. In fact, you 'll see diet plans to preload carbs starting 2 days before race day.

But, Finndog eats all that stuff already, yet still bonks after a few days. Is it simply possible that he does not eat enough? It could be more than that.

If we assume it is really hypoglycemia, and not just overwork, then how do you combat it?

Disski suggested that a carb/protein meal within a half an hour after exercise would quickly refill muscle glycogen for the next day. That is true. One must act quickly, else that window of opportunity is gone. What if you miss it?

Well, other sites suggest that the insulin response continues for 16-48 hours after long (90 minutes at a time or more) exercise periods. Which can result in delayed onset hypoglycemia. That particular paper suggests that glycogen depletion may be the primary source of this problem.

If that is so, one suggested solution is to continually ingest very small amounts of very high GI sugar, in the attempt to refill muscle glycogen on an "as needed" basis. Finndog asked elsewhere, "what do you put in your hydration system?" I'd put a very light solution of pure glucose. The colorado state U site suggests a 6% to 8% solution, or 60 grams to 80 grams per litre, if done by weight.

While this probably works just fine for healthy folks, I do not know what would happen for hypoglycemic individuals. It may work just fine, since the small quantities should not provoke a huge response. OTOH, it could be a disaster, and highly dependent on your exercise level while you are ingesting it. FWIW, I'd have a sip or two going up each lift throughout the day.

Here's a modified idea that should work perfectly: Disski uses a carb/protein mixture after skiing. 90 minutes of endurance is the goal, afterwhich one should be able to refill glycogen. So, if you have this carb/protein mix ( a protein powder/shake? eg. Ultra whey more? ) 1/2 hour before lunch as well as immediately apres the afternoon ski, you could get this benefit twice a day!

post #36 of 52
Thread Starter 
Interesting posts guys. I am beginning to think that the altitude and lack of good conditioning may be the over-riding culprit here. Now that my Disc was fixed in August, I am in decent shape and getting better. This is kinda full-circle, I have found that the best boost has been a tube of peanut butter. I think that's about 1 tblspn. I do think that prior to school, I should carbo load a little and then try to eat more complex carbos each day. I don't think a small amount of sugar 2-5 grams during skiing would hurt either, maybe just enough to boost a little.
post #37 of 52
Finndog - I find that breakfast is VERY important..... oats are almost a must for good sustained energy......

Then again - no matter what I eat if I have brakfast at 7am (normal for me) & then ski from 8:30am until my lesson at 930am I am pretty much going to need a food hit before the end of the lesson (1230am) ie 5.5 hours after breakfast is too late for food intake......
My instructor says you can actually watch my skiing change as I become hypo.... he can now see the change & call a break for me if I have not realised....

Ric B - I truely struggle to ski those 4 hour out without a food break ..... it is worse when I do more work on long turns than if we do short turns more (?????)
Sure maybe I could be fitter etc - but it is the TOTAL lack of energy to run on that does me in..... if I stuff up I can be shaking & unable to coordinate really quite quickly & from there I just pass out....

It also matters WHAT I recharge on.... high GI tends to make me flop unless I back it up with a good lowGI hit as well.....
Big E - I don't ever eat a HIGH GI/Protein meal... just a snack to get my glycogen replaced.... meal that follows is LOW GI carbs (& it follows fast)....
I just high GI snack as I am stretching out (another must within 1/2 hour also)

Finndog - check that AIS site - tells you your carb needs/kg body weight for x hours exercise daily...... & it can get SCARY when you are exercising a lot each day - the needs are actually pretty damn high..... & note they are g or carbs each day - not g of carb foods.....
post #38 of 52
OK - look here... play investigator
post #39 of 52
Originally Posted by disski
It also matters WHAT I recharge on.... high GI tends to make me flop unless I back it up with a good lowGI hit as well.....
Big E - I don't ever eat a HIGH GI/Protein meal... just a snack to get my glycogen replaced.... meal that follows is LOW GI carbs (& it follows fast)....
I just high GI snack as I am stretching out (another must within 1/2 hour also)
I was thinking about this as the snack, some time before your usual meal at lunch and after you're done. The first listed carb is maltodextrose:

This suggests carb to protein in a four to one ratio, post workout is optimal.
post #40 of 52
Nope - snack on high GI between breakfast & lunch & I fold....

High GI only works for me when it is VERY close to my meals..... else I get the sugar rush then LOW & FLAT follows pretty fast....

High GI snacks would work better for normal people....

I work in a pharmacy - bags of open glucose jelly beans everywhere..... that was one of my problems... I'd feel faint - eat jelly beans - crash.....

As a guide - I once consumed breakfast (weetbix) then morning tea (coffee scroll) then a bag of glucose jelly beans.... then fainted - boss sent me to the hospital - blood sugar was under 2 & they swore I had not eaten all morning (this was 1030am)

I really can feel it if I eat a muffin or cake for morning tea (like if someone has a birthday & we have a party tea)..... last place I worked a few of us did this - so we took to insisting on fruit platters & savoury foods as well as the cakes for morning teas....
post #41 of 52
Thread Starter 
Couldn't find chart on site. I have to eat about every 3 hours to keep optimal condition. I find if I eat pancakes, waffles or anything like that, I'm screwed the whole day and I have a real hard time recovering. Eating small high protein 1st breakfast ,then eating a little more aobut 2 hours laer has been working well for me lately. I avoid caffeine which really messes me up. A hand full of Peanuts a couple of hours later and then lunch. This seems to work well. I work out for 1/2 hour on weights, back to back sets on different muscle groups, then walk about 2 miles in the woods with my dog 3x a day and then sometimes ride bike of run as part of the evening dog walk.
post #42 of 52
post #43 of 52
no no no - no pancakes....

but you must eat carbs for fuel....

eat oats/barley/sweet corn/sweet potato/slow fermented bread/....

whatever - but get your carbs in....

If I ate like that I'd be flat within a day or 2.... totally lethargic & incapable of proper function.... worse if I did that & skied.....
post #44 of 52
Thread Starter 
No, I don't anymore. Buckwheat pankakes are not too bad but it's the maple syrup that kills me! Now, only foods like eggs, whole grain bread (1 slice) cottage cheese, smoked salmon for breakfast. Sometimes a nice peice of fish left over frim dinner. I haven't tried much in the way of Oatmeal, I do like it but there's no protein in it.
post #45 of 52
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post #48 of 52
Thread Starter

Check this article out on that site you sent. VERY INTERESTING. Says eat low GI, not high GI.
post #49 of 52
YES!!! what I have been saying - high GI is only for that very quick snack under 30 mins from stopping....
post #50 of 52
You are correct, it does say that, but I am wondering if ALL carbs must be low GI. There's no question meals ought to be.

From the article posted by Finndog:

" Eating During Training and Competition
The Eating Before Exercise fact sheet on the AIS Sports Nutrition website provides
general information. Eating during exercise depends on the duration and intensity of
exercise. In general, additional carbohydrate should be considered as exercise
approaches one hour or more. Research suggests 30-60 g of carbohydrate per hour
will aid performance.
Usually it is not necessary to have extra insulin if you eat during exercise. Choices such as sports drinks that provide fluid and carbohydrate are a convenient option for most exercise situations. Other options such as carbohydrate gels, fruit and sports bars may also be tolerated. If additional carbohydrate is required during exercise, it is better to consume small amounts frequently rather than leave it until the last minute. Try any new strategies during training sessions when it is easier to monitor the effects on blood glucose control."

(my bolding) Aren't sports bars primarily high GI carb sources? The following claims their effect is identical to glucose:

Beware also that some bars may contain caffeine, ephedra and other stimulants!
post #51 of 52
BigE, according to the American council of exercise, the carb preload science is moving away the two day into a week long cycle with the last two days close t onormal consumption. So I don't know. Certainly there are many way to skin the cat for any individual. I would say that skiing is certainly not a triathlon experience from a physiological intensity perspective.

I think back to my backcountry skiing days of humping a fifty pound pack all day long in frigid weather with no let up for days (read 5 to 8) at a time, and diet was important out there. Lots of complex carbs and good fat protein, along with some junk carbs, and electrolytes. I won't go into the specifics but it is not to far off from what constitutes a good diet today. PLenty of oats, dried fruits, and nuts. We cherished the small amounts of animal and dairy fats we could carry.

Finndog, have you ever seen a sports physician or dietician?

Disski, long turns require a different recruitment and duration of muscle effort, along with a need for more skeletal support, so it makes sense that this is taxing for you. play with becoming more skeletal in your long turns, meaning try to ski with a longer outside leg in your long turns. Later, RicB.
post #52 of 52
Thread Starter 
No, never a medical dr. Growing up my parents would never take me to a medical dr. for this becasue at that itme (an to an extent today) medical dr.s did not recognize hypoglyceamia and would just tell you to eat sugar. We were raised pretty much holistically. I should look into it now as there is much more knowledge about it. Everything I know I learned from mom My chiropractor is also a accupuncturist and a nutritionist, Great guy and helps a lot with the vitimins and supplements. I think the key here is going to be conditioning. I do want to try one of th water supplements on the other thread for added electrolytes which I know make a big difference in my body. That may be a sign of somehting else..
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