New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Bodie changes technique

post #1 of 19
Thread Starter 
http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,...489830,00.html

Check this article out, Bode talks about the way he skis on his atomics compared to his Rossignols.

Does anyone understands what Bode means in this article "This year I can ski with a higher hip and with my chest and shoulders down." ???

good skiing------------------------------------------------------------------------
post #2 of 19
Interesting article, Esky--good find!

It's hard to tell exactly what he means. It sounds like perhaps it has to do with where the "sweet spot" on the skis is (farther aft this year?), where his bindings are mounted (farther forward?), or a different flex pattern (softer tips that flex with less pressure?).

From the rest of his description, it sounds more like a boot setup change--i.e. more upright this year. Boots with excess forward lean (for a particular person) cause the extreme knees forward/hips low/back and torso upright stance that he described from last year, and more upright boots would cause the changes he describes for this year. He clearly attributes the difference to his skis, though. Hard to say!

Here's an illustration of how boot setup affects stance:


Note the difference between A1 and C1, and between A3 and C3--they show exactly what Bode described (A=this year, C=last year)

Welcome to EpicSki, Esky!

Best regards,
Bob Barnes
post #3 of 19
It sounds like something I've talked about many times with many people and their boots. Pushing the lower leg and knee forward forces you to drop the hip back to feel balanced and sucks up your ability to use flexion to absorb. As well with the hip back fore aft movements become much bigger as they tend to have to involve the hip (COG). Taller stance means more flexion and 'higher hip' allowing the feet sliding back and forth to take care of many fore aft corrections.

It's funny how many people come looking for more forward lean thinking it will fix their tendancy to be caught back and not realizing it will exacerbate the problem instead.

Often the problem comes from ramp angle in the bindings especially for small boots but I can't imagine they wouldn't have corrected for that already. Atomic is one of the flatest bindings out there.

Did he go to the Atomic boot as well?
post #4 of 19
All Atomic.

Out of curiosity, are Rossi/Dynastar mount points further back on the ski than Atomic? I read "standing more centered on the ski", which would seem to mean the bindings themselves are more forward....

Of course, for a WC skier the location of the bindings are probably already customized, regardless of where the boot sole mark is placed. If the binding position has been drastically altered over last year, I'd suspect that Bode's gonna be doing a whole lot more winning this year!

Cheers!
post #5 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by L7
It sounds like something I've talked about many times with many people and their boots. Pushing the lower leg and knee forward forces you to drop the hip back to feel balanced and sucks up your ability to use flexion to absorb. As well with the hip back fore aft movements become much bigger as they tend to have to involve the hip (COG). Taller stance means more flexion and 'higher hip' allowing the feet sliding back and forth to take care of many fore aft corrections.

It's funny how many people come looking for more forward lean thinking it will fix their tendancy to be caught back and not realizing it will exacerbate the problem instead.

Often the problem comes from ramp angle in the bindings especially for small boots but I can't imagine they wouldn't have corrected for that already. Atomic is one of the flatest bindings out there.

Did he go to the Atomic boot as well?
He is in the Atomic Race Tech boot.
Since the GS11 came out Atomic skis/plate/binding have about 4mm of ramp. In the days of the 10.22 they were flat. It is the plate and ski that now cause the ramp as you have pointed out not the binding. But there still is 4mm. although as you have said i am sure they spend hours on stance/alignment issues as Erik Schlopy described in a recent artucle in Ski Racing.

Since Bode is skiing on The Atomic 10.18 bindingit still has 5 varizone positions so he has the ability to adjust the binding placement on the ski.

this alos may have nothing to do with binding placement, boots can make an even bigger difference. Or the combo of boots/bindings & skis.
post #6 of 19
I interpret what Bode is saying as he is skiing with a longer leg or higher hips and this allows more natural movement of the pelvis and so allows the upper body to be flexed for angulation to manage where he is directing pressure to his skis, without involving big fore and aft movements of the hips. Later, RicB.
post #7 of 19
Thread Starter 
Thanks alot everyone. Now Im beginning to understand why Bode Skis the way he skis.

good skiing ----------------------------------------------------------------
post #8 of 19
I recall an article last year where he talked of raising his heels(lowering inside to stay FIS legal) to tip the shafts forward. He credited that with better speed results. I commented at the time that possibly that was why he struggled in slalom last year.
post #9 of 19
Good call. Slatz!

I'm still interested in why Bode thinks it's the skis, though, and not the boots--unless he's referring to the binding/plate setup on the skis.

Best regards,
Bob Barnes
post #10 of 19
Do you suppose his chest and shoulder position referance might also be an aerodynamic plus?

I also wonder if Bode made boot/binding changes?

I think there is an unexplored frontier in analysis of for/aft balance factors and how different boot/binding/ski combos either work well or not at all for any particular skier.

Last season I started gathering data by putting ski contact points on two scales with the skier in the boots/bindings. You get a good picture of how it all passes thru the skis flex distribution to a "net" fore/aft weight distribution ratio.

I hope to be able to determine what analitical factors can be consistantly used to determine (or even ball-park) fore/aft balance ratios that are optimal for particular types of skier/bodies. Conclusions are elusive as yet, but I intend to pursue it further this year. I hope to find the fruit on this twisted vine, but have reason to believe it is there.
post #11 of 19
Arc isn't that what a cambell balancer does minus the ski. Talking with a guy who has one in his shop, this allows the mounting point of the binding to be accurately determined for an individuals body while in their boots. If I'm ever in whistler I hopefully will get on it and see how I scale out. Where are you putting the scales exactly? It sounds interesting. Later, RicB.
post #12 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcmeister
Do you suppose his chest and shoulder position referance might also be an aerodynamic plus?

I also wonder if Bode made boot/binding changes?

I think there is an unexplored frontier in analysis of for/aft balance factors and how different boot/binding/ski combos either work well or not at all for any particular skier.

Last season I started gathering data by putting ski contact points on two scales with the skier in the boots/bindings. You get a good picture of how it all passes thru the skis flex distribution to a "net" fore/aft weight distribution ratio.

I hope to be able to determine what analitical factors can be consistantly used to determine (or even ball-park) fore/aft balance ratios that are optimal for particular types of skier/bodies. Conclusions are elusive as yet, but I intend to pursue it further this year. I hope to find the fruit on this twisted vine, but have reason to believe it is there.
Probably not talking about aerodynamics, this was a slalom race! I think he is referring to stance/balance.
post #13 of 19

Ooops

"Probably not talking about aerodynamics, this was a slalom race!"

Solden was a Giant Slalom.
post #14 of 19
Sorry your right, but still aerodynmics in GS are not much of an issue!
post #15 of 19

Advantages to Bode Miller of a Higher Chest

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman
Sorry your right, but still aerodynmics in GS are not much of an issue!
And, frankly, the lower your chest and shoulders (in general) the more aerodynamic (shorter wind profile).

Just watched Bode Miller's runs on the DVD of 2002-03 winning runs on the World Cup. (The latest one you can buy off the USSA Web site.) That was back when he was on Fishers, but even then his technique is absolutely identifiable in GS, because his hips are so far back (with hands and chest forward) compared to other skiers. Even compared with the other top guys on the World Cup, he also gets much closer to the snow, with even more extreme inclination. (As Austrian Karl Schranz recently sniffed, after the latest Soelden win, if Bode keeps winning, all the young Austrian racers will soon emulate him, "skiing like a snowboarder," presumably meaning with the inside hand skimming the snow.) Quote near the end of:

http://www.skiracing.com/news/news_d...hp/1906/ALPINE

I assume getting his chest and shoulders a little higher, with hips more forward instead of bending at the waist will make Bode Miller a little more crash resistant. Despite his legendary (and really astonishing) dynamic balance, skiing with hips that far back behind the feet, with arms and chest forward to compensate seems like a position with very little room for recovery from error.

And in slalom, having the chest a little higher is an advantage, because you hit the poles higher, farther from the hinge, and there's less resistance creating drag. Bode Miller's size and impact high on slalom poles is considered one of his advantages over most of his competitors. See:

http://www.nastar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=342
post #16 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman
Sorry your right, but still aerodynmics in GS are not much of an issue!
Every bit matters. Hell, even snowboarders race GS in speed suits. (prod, prod)
post #17 of 19
He talks about how the ski enables him to ski without having to flex his ankles so much. That can have a lot to do with flex ,sidecut, torsional rigidity etc. We all know that different skis ski differently. Obviously he prefers the way the Atomic skis better than the Rossi. But he also changed boots. And in an other interview he was raving about the boots. And he also changed binding and plate. So in the end he obviously knows more than he lets us know.
post #18 of 19
Biowolf says:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biowolf
Obviously he prefers the way the Atomic skis better than the Rossi. But he also changed boots. And in an other interview he was raving about the boots. And he also changed binding and plate. So in the end he obviously knows more than he lets us know.
Bode Miller is an experimenter who continually tweaks and tests in trying to find the fastest combination and what works for him. See the discussion by the Atomic racing manager here:

http://www.skiracing.com/news/news_d.../newsArticles/

Last year, Bode Miller had a lot of trouble getting comfortable in downhill and Super-G, for which most racers get softer flexing boots and sometimes a greater base bevel, so the skis aren't quite so responsive, with every little twitch changing your line. Miller reported that in early-season DH and SG training, in his new setup he was a second and a half faster than Daron Rahlves, who along with Hermann Maier is expected to be near the top of the speed events this year. It'll be interesting to see how things turn out in Lake Louise at the end of this month.
post #19 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by sfdean
Last year, Bode Miller had a lot of trouble getting comfortable in downhill and Super-G, for which most racers get softer flexing boots and sometimes a greater base bevel, so the skis aren't quite so responsive, with every little twitch changing your line. Miller reported that in early-season DH and SG training, in his new setup he was a second and a half faster than Daron Rahlves, who along with Hermann Maier is expected to be near the top of the speed events this year. It'll be interesting to see how things turn out in Lake Louise at the end of this month.
Well, the results are in: On Saturday, Bode Miller won the downhill at Lake Louise, 1.25 seconds ahead of Daron Rahlves (5th) and Hermann Maier (6th), Miller's first downhill victory on the World Cup ever.

http://www.skiracing.com/news/news_d...hp/1978/ALPINE

and yesterday won the Super G .14 seconds ahead of Hermann Maier (2nd) and .68 seconds ahead of Daron Rahlves (5th), his first super G victory on the World Cup. After the super G victory, he explained it was his setup on the Atomics that made the difference, allowing him to keep his chest low, and have a more aerodynamic tuck:

"I can be more aerodynamic now," Miller told reporters in Austria. "I was doing so much to compensate for my awkward set-up [last year] that my chest was always up. I'd end up needing to make up all my time on the turny parts of the courses."

http://www.skiracing.com/news/news_d...hp/1982/ALPINE
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Ski Instruction & Coaching