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Tecnica Diablo

post #1 of 18
Thread Starter 

Boot gurus i need help! There is something that i don't understand about the Diablo Race Pro. Is the Race Pro the consumer model or the plug model? IMO it is the consumer model but here is what confuses me: http://www.bootfitters.com/boot_reviews.htm (plug boots section)
As you can see, the Diablo Race Pro is listed as the plug model. What are your opinions?
From what i know, the previous model, the XT 17 uses the same shell as the true plug, the XT 24 with a softer cuff which makes it freeskiing friendly. Does the same thing happen with the Race Pro? Is the Pro using the same shell as the plug only with a softer cuff
Also i would like to know if the last of the Pro 130 is wider or narrower than the last of the XT 17.

Thanks a lot
post #2 of 18
The Race Pro is not a true plug boot. It shares the same last as the Plug (known as the Race R) But the plug has a thicker plastic. The Race R as far as I have heard is not avaiable for consumers.

Being that the Race Pro is not a true plug and the fact that it is entirely new boot it fits different than the XT. It is slightly wider in some spots and tighter in others, but it fits much better overall.
post #3 of 18
Thread Starter 
Thanks for your help. I am a little dissapointed that it is not the plug version. The XT 17 used the XT 24 lower with a softer upper so i was hoping for the same tight fit. But it seems that this is not gonna happen anymore. However, you said that the new boot fits tigher in some spots and wider in others. Well i haven't tried the boot on but from the info i have gathered i'll make some assumptions: I think that it is wider in the toebox area (for more comfort) and perhaps in the forefoot. I don't know exactly where it can fit tighter but my guess is that it is in the arch area. Are these assumptions correct?
post #4 of 18
I think he is just saying that the shape is different. Don't worry about it not being tight enough...... If you liked the XT's, you'll LOVE the Race pro.
If you just like the thought of having a "plug" boot, go ahead and consider the race pro a plug. It's close enough
post #5 of 18
Thread Starter 
It's not the thought of having a plug boot. The XT 17 wasn't exactly a full on plug because of the softer cuff but it used the lower of the XT24, the real plug. So that's why i am a bit confused. Yes he (and others too) said that they fit better but what does this mean? Initially i thought that this meant a wider and more forgiving last. So this is my concern. Any thoughts?
post #6 of 18
I own a pair, and I had the XT 17's last season. I guess it depends how you define plug. Is the Race pro built on a low volume last? Yes. Is the plastic thick to allow for grinding? Yes. I really don't have any way of measuring the thickness of the plastic on the XT's vs. the Diablo's, but I'm sure they are similar.

I'm not sure what you are worried about, but if you are concerned that the Diablo will not be enough boot for you, or that it won't be tight enough, don't worry. This is one of the best new race boots in YEARS.

If you truly need more than the Race pro 130 has to offer, you probably have already received your free ones for the season.
post #7 of 18
Thread Starter 
It seems that you guessed my concerns but it seems that i have nothing to worry about. From what i rember you like the XTs a lot so there must be something special about the Race Pro if you like them so much.
Yes i was a little worried about the last. I thought it was not as low volume and narrow. Anyway they will arrive at my local shop in about two weeks.

Thanks a lot
post #8 of 18
There is production "racestock" and there is the stuff the guys who win recieve (along with the check). The next year that becomes production racestock and the big boys move on to the next big thing. Most brands sell real race product (e.g. rossi race centers)If you need better stuff than this you are already recieving it (along with the checks).
To answer your question, sywsyw, of course there is a wc plug version of the diablo race pro and if you needed it you would have skied in them this a.m. in preparation for your race this weekend.
It is not my style to flame but stop worrying about your xt no longer being the coolest latest thing. Perhaps the time could be better spent agonizing about whether they are "rotary " or "lateral" or "hinged " or "monoshell". Any of which might render them totally unusable.
A boot that fits and is properly adapted to your anatomy is far more important than it's production date.
The Lange RL1/ Rossi R2004 is an early 1980's design and last time I checked it was still kickin' ass. (if you would like a pair let me know)

post #9 of 18
Thread Starter 
I was not worried about them not being the latest and greatest. Infact the XT (or Formula) has been unchanged for a couple of years.
I think i misunderstood something about the Race Pro. A lot has been said about the other Diablos (Magnesium, Fire and Flame models) regarding the last. As a result it seemed to me that this boot used a last close to these models (wider in the forefoot and toebox ). But, as U.P. Racer said, i should not worry about this. And Bootech, you said that they are an improvement over the XT.
I didn't join the "lateral" vs."rotary" boot thread. It's because i don't think it's that important. However i was the one who started the "hinged vs. monoblock" boot thread because this info is very important IMO and you joined the discussion and explained the differences between them. I believe that these differences are quite important.
At the World Cup level, i really don't care what the winning boot is. It's not important for me. I just wanted to know the differences between the existing designs.
post #10 of 18
I just ordered my Diablo Race Pro 130's yesterday ...

I have a very wide forefoot, with a very narrow heel and low volume instep. I've been on Nordica boots for the last 3 years, but even those were not quite sug enough in the heel/wide enough in the forefoot. The Diablo Mg last seemed to fit my foot great, but I felt that the flex would be way to soft for me (6'1", 180lbs, race background, agressive skier).

After many hours doing research and trying on boots, I had narrowed it down to the Nordica Doberman Pro or the Tecnica Diablo Race Pro 130. The 28.0 and up sizes in the Diablo Race haven't made it into the country yet, but I was able to try on the 27.5. I could just about ski this boot without a liner ... I had about 5 mm of space between my foot and the shell all the way around ... no spots touching or anything! Based on how well the 27.5 Diablo Race conformed to my foots curves, I decided to go ahead and order them in a 28.5. I'll likely be fitting them with Conformable injected liners. Let's hope they fit as good as I think they will! I'll let you guys know once i get to ski on them.
post #11 of 18
sywsyw, my apologies for being harsh. It was unwarranted. The race pro is quite a bit lower volume than the mag,fire, flame etc. A little more mid and forefoot volume than the xt's.The boot should fit a lot more people than it did previously. I think the diablo series does a good job of blurring the mono/hinge distinction. This is the direction most race boots seem to be going. I have only built a couple of the new tecnica wc boots both very small sizes. The liner is different from the race pro (lace up, doberman like, hmmm. same velcro spoiler too) Angles appear the same as retail although I did not measure. You need both boots in the same size to compare accurately.
the new boot should ski better (imo) because it should be more responsive to foot movement and less dependent on leg movement. This is part of the mono/hinge debate.
I think it is likely that in two or three years the high hinge/low mono design will become the standard.

Lastly, without getting brand specific, if someone wants a "plug" type boot, (thick shell, thin liner) and intends to foam it, they are most likely in 1 of 3 scenarios. 1. The boot is too big. You should be making room in a race boot not taking it up. 2. they are missing the whole concept. the plastic should provide the fit not the liner. See answer #1. 3. They are those rare people whose feet are actually that skinny that no matter how short you go it is still too big. in that case by all means foam away.
Skiing is good for you! Hope you all get out soon.
post #12 of 18
Hi BOOTech,

Thanks for keeping the information flowing. Many of us have become somewhat knowledgeable about skis and bindings, but boots still seem like a black art. This is especially true of higher performance boots. Manufactures of skis are quick to tell us about every new material they have packed into their skis. Boot makers tell us things like race last, WC proven, and new buckles. But little if any information on how and why things work.

The discussions on Lateral/Rotary, Hinged vs Monoblock over the last couple of months, shows that a lot of us are still trying to get a handle on the basics of boot design. Hell I am trying to figure out what the list of basics is. Your posts have been really helpful in clearing up some of the modern myths.

In your last post I just could not get what you where getting at with;

"I think it is likely that in two or three years the high hinge/low mono design will become the standard."

I think you may be referring to a design that uses some of the features from both hinged/mono designs. Is this the point that has caused the stir about the Diablo, the merging of designs?

post #13 of 18

Help! Set me straight on foam!


Thanks for the feedback. Are you saying that foam liners serve no function for agressive skiers who want a firmer flexing boot, more response, more comfort and warmth, and a shell that will last for 5 years (as opposed to 2-3 years)? All of these have been touted as benefits of the foam liners by people that I ski with who have them. And these are reputable people ... mountain training directors, race coaches, level III certified instructors, etc.

Everyone I know who actually SKIS on foam liners absolutely swears by them. More durability, more comfort, more response. But I've had two (2) boot fitters now (I assume you're a boot fitter, BOOTech) tell me that the foam liners are shit. What's the deal?
post #14 of 18
A-town - to help you clear up on foam liners...which I love and have skied in for many years - in high performance retail 'race' boots....a World Cup boot or true race boot usually has a 'sock' liner in the boot - very thin so as to not interfere with the foot/plastic connection. Most athletes at the highest levels are in boots that are 2 to 3 sizes smaller than their shoe size (Bode is a 12 shoe and when he was in Tecnica it was an 8 UK shell), which doesn't leave much room for anything but their foot and a thin sock, plus the sock liner. Again - high level athletes who are on the snow for one thing and one thing only - to ski and train as fast as possible...much like a race car driver wears a very soft thin shoe, ski racers need to have a solid connection to the plastic on their feet at higher speeds than most of us ski, with more force on the boot.

NOW - those of us who are high end skiers (ex-racers, instructors, training directors, examiners, gurus, big mtn. gods, etc.) realize that in addition to performance there are elements like warmth and comfort. Yes, I still want to beat the folks I race against at the RPP or weekly race series, but I also want my feet to be warm and I want to be able to stand still once in a while...so I use a foam liner to give a stiffer connection to the plastic and I only downsize 1.5 from my shoe size - Voila, I'm comfortable and at the speeds I ski, there is enough connection to the plastic.

Sorry to ramble on, but it is a common misconception about plug or WC boots being necessary for people who are great skiers, but not racing...those boots are not made to spend entire days out on the snow, just training and racing time. Most of the USST skiers have boots that are a little bigger or softer for days when they just want to powder ski (ok, they still fit them tight and smaller than you and I would, but in comparison)

cheers and think snow - as I look out the window, the guns are blazing on Sugarbush.
post #15 of 18
All very well stated, gotamagal. Foam liners are can be great products, I foam 50+ boots a year. My point was merely that I do not put them in plugs very often.
As for race boots and daily use, I have skied in plugs for over 10 yrs. and have numerous clients including instructors in race boots. The key though is keeping the sizing realistic, 1 or 2 down from U.K. for men 2 or 3 for women. Not the 3 or 4 that you correctly described for athletes. The other key is to replace the liner regularly, 1 a season perhaps. But you are absolutely right in saying that a retail product with a foam liner is a far more user friendly product than a plug for daily use. I also use a car analogy for my customers in that skiing in a plug boot every day is like driving a race car to work every day. You might get there sooner but there is no climate control, no cd player, and not much padding.
post #16 of 18
Let me clarify ...

I'm may not be a big mtn. god or a [competetive] racer, but I am a coach/instructor and I do tend towards a stiff, responsive boot. I wear a size 12+ shoe, I'm big (6'1"; 200 lbs.), and I ski agressively (ever been to Mt. Ashland?).

I have a difficult foot (wide forefoot, small heel & instep). I've spend the last two years skiing on Nordica Wave 10.2s in a 28.5. They were too tight in the toes, and the heel box wasn't snug enough. Before that I had Lang X9's, which had the same problem (toes too tight, heel too loose), in addition to not being quite long enough.

As for the Diablo Race Pro's, these are a SOFT boot (for a race boot) ... they're softer than the Doberman Pro 130's in the shop. Who knows what they'll be like in the cold ... I'm actually hoping they'll stiffen up quite a bit. They seem to fit my foot the best out of any boot yet. The 10.5's (28.0 mondo) should be just under a two finger fit on my foot. The 9.5's were a 1/2 pinkie finger fit, but the shell conformed very well to the shape of my foot. I've talked to my fitter and he can work with this boot as far as doing a liner or any punching/grinding.

Here are my reasons for wanting to go with a foam liner ... tell me if I'm out of line:

1) To fill in extra space in instep and heel.
2) A more supportive, responsive fit.
3) Comfort (I hear they're great for bone spurs, which I have.)
4) Better durability than stock liner.

Thanks for the help!
post #17 of 18
A-town - you are in line for filling space and a more supportive fit with the foam liners. Durability is about the same - although the breakdown is less as there is less room for foam to move or pack since you have filled up the extra space. You are correct that the Diablo Pro feels pretty soft in the shop, but having skied it last spring in New England's nuclear cold temps, I can assure you that it is plenty stiff. Laterally the boot is really stiff and way quicker than anything I've skied in lately. I know a lot of coaches that are skiing in the 130 - or did ski it at Hood this summer and found it perfect.

BootTech - I totally agree that foam liners don't match up with a correctly fit plug boot very often...didn't mean to infer that. When I taught 9-10mos a year I always used a small boot and foam liner, but will very willingly admit that I wear ALL my footwear small - just hooked on the contact and control - even in my running shoes.
post #18 of 18

I have been skiing in Foam liners for the last 15+ years. I have been doing this for the same reasons you are considering them. Tough to fit feet with injury issues that make it hard to ski aggressively for a whole day. Just to help with perspective I have a size 9 ½ foot wear a 26.5 boot. My fore foot is quite wide, my heels are skinny and I have some old injuries that complicate fitting boots.

Foam liners worked very well for me. I could ski full-out as long as my body could take it instead of the feet screaming.

Here are my responses to your questions based on how things have worked for me.

1) To fill in extra space in instep and heel.

Should do this very well. Just check that the foam bladder covers the areas you need to snug up.

2) A more supportive, responsive fit.

Supportive Yes. Responsive maybe, my last foam liners (conformable) seemed to be cushy. I felt that took some of the quickness out of the boots. I have heard that good boot fitters can adjust the firmness of the liner. That being said comfort may be worth a slightly slower boot.

3) Comfort (I hear they're great for bone spurs, which I have.)

YES, and the difference is reason enough to buy Foam liners. Due to old injuries I have parts of my ankle that stick out in weird ways, and are extremely pressure sensitive. Foam liners and some shell modifications took those problems away.

4) Better durability than stock liner.

It is very likely that the shells will be worn out long before your foam liners. I had a pair that saw somewhere around 300 days and still felt like they have a lot of life left.

Hope this is helpful.

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