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Technique Comparison

post #1 of 29
Thread Starter 
Would some of you input your technical opinion on these 2 skiers. Good, bad and Ugly. Sorry for the poor quality.
Thanks.

post #2 of 29
Real fast observation.

Skier 1. should have his alignment checked, A Framed. But it could also be that because this skiers is so far inside, that it appears he is loosing the outside ski some and this is causing some slight wedging from steering. This is minor and I still think there could be an alignment issue.

Skier 2. Should stand up more. The stance is a bit wide, but that seems to be in vogue these days. I know a lot of trainers that like the wider stance. But I feel this is a bit too much.----------Wigs
post #3 of 29
Both are too squat for my taste, I like to ski much taller, but then I rarely ski on a high edge as these skiers do.

...Ott
post #4 of 29
Ott hit it! Even without poles (skier2), both skiers are too tight with their arms. Both show an alignment issue as both are A-Framed and somewhat stemmed, Skier 2 more that skier 1.

Rick H
post #5 of 29
Question to ask yourself: will either of these skiers be able to move smoothly from that frame into the next turn? Both have lost edge purchase on the outside ski. Are they well positioned to switch their flow of motion the other way?
post #6 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick H
Ott hit it! Even without poles (skier2), both skiers are too tight with their arms. Both show an alignment issue as both are A-Framed and somewhat stemmed, Skier 2 more that skier 1.

Rick H
Thanks for all your replies. You can always count on an honest observation. That's what I like about The Bears.

Rick H-
How would you go about "fixing these problems?

Ott -
I like your style of skiing. Between you and me, it's more fun.


Wigs-
Any other pointers.

nolo- Both have lost edge purchase on the outside ski. Would you explain edge purchase. Is it loss of carving on the outside ski?

Are they well positioned to switch their flow of motion the other way? I let you decide. http://www.v1sports.com/SwingStore/Models/258591D9.avi

Ski season is coming to the PNW! I'm counting the hours.:
post #7 of 29

hunched over

Both skiers appear to be to hunched over, as others have noted. The second skier seems to be pointing his arms - note minimal bend at the elbow - downhill, probably from being told to "get forward" which really means "get your CM forward". Some people who are nervous about speed/getting forward may actually move their hips rearward as they move their hands forward, particularly if told to do this while standing across the hill

some thoughts on Edge Angles, and two different ways to achieve them:
================================================== ==
taller stance, but this requires the skis to be further outside from the hips. More efficient, less work, and allows greater adjustment as the skier is not "bottomed out" with respect to range of motion.

shorter stance: with a lower stance, the knees can be moved to the inside, allowing the skis to achieve higher edge angles. adjustments to terrain are harder to make with this stance, and more work is required in moving up and down from one turn to the next.

my advice:
stay taller, and get the skis to the outside.

ski AGAINST the ski, not on the ski

brad
post #8 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick H
Ott hit it! Even without poles (skier2), both skiers are too tight with their arms. Both show an alignment issue as both are A-Framed and somewhat stemmed, Skier 2 more that skier 1.

Rick H
I'm not so sure I see that, Rick. I think photos can fool you sometimes. But I really don't see that much of an alignment issue with 2 if any. Both skis look to be equal on edge angle and I really don't see a stem with 2. I also do not see "A Frame" with 2. But again, photos and the angle in which they were shot can fool people. What I see is a very powerful turn and I would like to see the skier stand up more.-----Wigs
post #9 of 29
Thread Starter 
ski AGAINST the ski, not on the ski
Thanks for the free Ski lesson Brad. Couple of questions.

A more dynamic skier(not stance-width inhibited) would be able to get better leg extention to bend the skis?

Some people who are nervous about speed/getting forward may actually move their hips rearward as they move their hands forwad.

Would a more erect upper body correct the hands and move the hips ahead?
post #10 of 29
Slider, the video seems to show an excercize with hands on the knees and for that it is good skiing, obviously the person is a good skier. But for that slope I would be dancing down not power skiing, but then I'm not a power skier.

...Ott
post #11 of 29
Skier 1 is doing a drill (I presume) to make him aware of how his inside leg is blocking the actions of the outside leg. Hands on knees dictate a hunched posture.

Do you have a video of Skier 2 in action?
post #12 of 29
slider,

Nice video!

When I compare it to Nolo's edge change video, I see a skier that is more in a 'set' position through the turn, then comes to the end and says "now turn" and makes a big move into a set position for the next turn. Compared to Nolo's footage where there's a more progressive exit and entry, where the CM just seems to naturally flow across the skis rather, than an apparent effort being made to cross.

I'm all to guilty of the same thing, so I'm trying to work on 'moving' thru the turn and more flexion/extension.
post #13 of 29

My 2 cents

I'm not sure Skier 1 has (much of) an A frame alignment problem. Look at frame 17 (oops - I'm using the V1 home software - looking at the video clip - check out the first (left) turn in the clip where the skier is in the fall line). There's not as much A frame there and I think what is there is caused by too much counter (I like to see zero counter in the fall line). Looking at the turn transition to start the right turn, the skier has a noticeable step moving the old outside ski into the new inside ski. The finish of the new inside ski step causes a little wobble on the outside ski which gets us to the ugly single frame in what otherwise is a fairly ripped turn. I think a contributing factor is the unequal position of the hands on the knees. The left hand appears to be more on the inside of the knee, while the right hand is on top of it. After the ugly single frame, the skier stomps on the outside ski and looks like he's ready to make another fairly nice turn at the end of the clip.

I'd rather see a straight run or just the skier standing on the flats to check for an A frame alignment issue. The one skier I've done video analysis for who had an obvious A frame issue had many more symptoms show up in her turns.

The tell tale signs for this skier are the ski tracks. Both the left and right turns have variable separation width of the skis throughout the turn (i.e. the distance between the skis starts narrow, gets wider than narrows again through the turn). I'd work on getting the hips more involved in the turn initiation either through a focus on hip movement or on keeping the shoulders more aligned to the pitch of the hill. There's a series of drills that involve holding bamboo across the shoulders that could complement the drill that this skier is working on.

Caveat emptor - I will not claim to be anywhere near as good an instructor as Wigs or Ott. Just giving my 2 cents in my attempt to get better.


Did anyone notice the snow in the clip looks ..... juicy?

Hmm - I need to go refind the frame in the old PSIA reference video where a demo teamer is in a wedge in the middle of a parallel turn. It looks real ugly. For one frame. If you play the video at normal speed, you'll most likely miss it.
post #14 of 29
Is the skier in the video Chris Fellows? Isn't he a member of the PSIA D Team?
post #15 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillA
Is the skier in the video Chris Fellows? Isn't he a member of the PSIA D Team?
Yes it is. Good job Bill A.
post #16 of 29
Thread Starter 
Nolo I have lost the Video data to skier 1.
post #17 of 29
No, that was skier 2 whose video I was looking for.

BTW, I think either skier could move from the still frame into a new turn smoothly.

Look at their eyes, intently focused ahead.
post #18 of 29
Thread Starter 
It depends on if you are looking at the image properties or just how they appear on the page. But anyways, thanks for your valued input nolo.
post #19 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by slider
ski AGAINST the ski, not on the ski
Thanks for the free Ski lesson Brad. Couple of questions.

A more dynamic skier(not stance-width inhibited) would be able to get better leg extention to bend the skis?
possibly, although speed/terrain would also impact that. with the feet outside the hips, a higher edge angle can be acheived. the speed and snow conditions would impact the bend in the skis. Most pictures that show a
ski in a "bent" position have very high edge angles.

Some people who are nervous about speed/getting forward may actually move their hips rearward as they move their hands forwad.

Would a more erect upper body correct the hands and move the hips ahead?
again possibly, but the resistance to speed/aggresive skiing may still be there. its just feels safer to be closer to the ground. the goal is to get the
cm/hip cradle up and over the skis, not lagging behind the tail of the uphill ski
post #20 of 29
I can't view this video. Anyone feel like giving me a computer lesson? I have a Mac, with quicktime, realplayer, and windows media player.

Is the .avi file type exclusive to v1 sports? I know v1sports software isn't available for macs, but it seems like I should at least be able to view the video, if not make one myself.
post #21 of 29
The skier in the second picture is Al Hobart of gorilla turn fame.
post #22 of 29
Thread Starter 
Downwardly Mobile sorry I don't know anything about Macs. Maybe you could try the movie page and see if it works. http://www.v1sports.com/locker_model...viewsport=SKII


And Bill A 1 out two.
post #23 of 29
Can a Mac run Windows Media Player?

Quote:
You need Windows Media Player Version 9 or greater to view any content on the Internet Sports Academy. Please download the necessary component for free.
post #24 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nolo
Can a Mac run Windows Media Player?
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/win...x/default.aspx
post #25 of 29
Download VLC http://www.videolan.org

The 'Swiss Army Knife' of Mac video viewing
post #26 of 29
After looking at the video of skier 1, I still think there might be either an alignment issue or lazy inside leg even if it’s a drill. I also see sequential movement in the legs. It is very slight, but there. Now that I know that this is a D Team member, I know that they are pretty good about getting alignment done. I know and ski with several of the demo team members on my home mountain and they are aligned well in their boots. Like I said in earlier posts, it’s sometimes hard to make judgment of someone’s skiing from a still photo. This skier looks much better in the video, IMHO. And yes, this is a drill. I’ve done this one in clinics many times. The idea of the drill is to push the inside knee out of a blocking position. I think this skier needs to push a bit harder, no? But this is still good skiing.-----------Wigs
post #27 of 29
From the first stills, I didn't think there was an alignment issue. The ski base and shin seemed to be pretty true from what you could see of the still.

Knowing how good of a skier Chris Fellows is won't stop me from critiquing him. What I don't like about this, is that he is settling down too far onto that outside ski, and you'll see how, at the end of that first turn, it starts to push out and move a lot of snow. This is because he has too much weight on the inside ski, and is too far behind it. (not much, but when you're busting on a D-teamer, you have to be way too critical). If you look at it frame by frame, when his weight goes to the new turning (left) leg, he moves very quickly and very laterally. Because he was so much behind that old inside foot, this causes him to have his CM slightly behind his feet, and you'll see the front of the right ski come off the ground when he transitions to the new turn. Still a nice turn!

I would imagine that skier 2 would have the same effect, only much more pronounced, because he has settled even further down onto the turning ski, and has a much wider stance. His CM would be very far behind the new turning ski at transition, that he would need to dive forward to keep up with his feet.
post #28 of 29
DM,

AVI is one of the original (essentially uncompressed) video formats (as opposed to the compressed formats like realmedia, quicktime and mpeg). It's not exclusive to V1. Windows Media Player should be able to play it. Try saving the file to your PC, then opening the saved file with WMP.
post #29 of 29
Wow....I can't wait to get some video this year and let all of you pick me apart.
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