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Living in Utah

post #1 of 62
Thread Starter 
My wife and I are contemplating moving to Ogden, UT this spring. Both (obviously) love skiing and the outdoors. Just not too sure about the people (ie. mormons). We're not too worried about the quirky laws and are far from prejudice but still have some questions. Any info would be greatly appreciated.
post #2 of 62
chris, there are a lot of threads about this...I can't remember who started a thread last year, but there was a guy who was moving to Sandy and we talked about some of these issues. You might do a search on keywords like UT mormons, sandy etc. and see what you some up with and then we can go from there.

Ogden is a bit of a different story as it is histroically a railroad, industrial and air force town so there are some differences, and hopefully some Ogden epic skiers can add those bits.

btw, Snow Basin is an awesome mountain -- I got up there only once last year but intend to return as much as I can this year and check out Powder Mountain as well.
post #3 of 62
Ogden has kind of a bad rep. Like any city there are good neighborhoods and bad. Becuse of it's Bluecollar backgroung,Ogden is known as a gang town, biker town. I'm not sure how much of that rep is true. Like any city there are good and bad areas. The downtown area is rather rundown but there is a lot of talk about new projects and working to change the image of Ogden. You may want to look around the Huntsville, Eden area between Powder Mountain and Snowbasin.
As far as Mormons well it really isn't any big deal. If you were moving to Rome would you be worried about the Catholics? If thats a problem then just move to Park City Summit county. This place is known as Utah's sin city. What Lodro said about Snowbasin and Powmountain is true. Both have excellent skiing. and still just off most peoples radar.
post #4 of 62
Welcome to Epic, Chriscam! As Lodro said, Snowbasin is a great mountain, and skiing in Utah is more or less unanimously awesome. As someone who recently moved from MA., to Colorado I can honestly say that anything is better than living in MA., even quirky Mormon laws. Good luck and keep us posted. We love reading about this kind of stuff!
post #5 of 62
My take on the whole Utah/Mormon thing is that it is only an issue to people who don't live here. Once you get here, it becomes a big non-issue. Do you hear people complain about living in Mass. due to the Roman Catholics? Yes, the Mo's are weird, but that just becomes so irrelevant in day-to-day stuff, where they act and work just like normal Americans. Its only the Church thing that is spooky, but they do all that stuff behind closed doors.

The great added benefit of Utah's reputation is that it draws less people here. Look at how mobbed Denver and the surrounding ski resorts are. Salt Lake, which has better snow and terrain, would be just as crowded with newcommers, if it weren't for the mormon image thing. Thank God (or should I say thank Joseph Smith)!

post #6 of 62
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the info guys. How easy do you think it is meeting people you can relate to (non-mormon, on the liberal side, early 30's)?
post #7 of 62
Originally Posted by chriscam
Thanks for the info guys. How easy do you think it is meeting people you can relate to (non-mormon, on the liberal side, early 30's)?
We found it very easy (although we're older than you).

First off, just Private Message some of the Utah members of this board. There are a bunch of them and they're great people. You'll have plenty of offers to show you around some of the ski areas, as well as the opportunity to participate in other activities as well.

Another idea is to get season ski passes somewhere (Snowbasin would be excellent) and ski there regularly. It's such a small (in terms of visitors, not in terrain) area that you're bound to run into the same people time after time.

Go on some hikes with the Wasatch Mountain Club - they have organized outings practically every weekend and you'll run into lots of people with similar interests. We also volunteered for hiking trail maintenance days (REI in SLC will have the info) and stream cleanup days (Western Rivers Flyfishing shop in SLC). On those volunteer days, you meet people who share your ideals and interests and can become great friends.

My wife and I lived in SLC from '96 to '03 and absolutely loved it. We were non-LDS but lived in a *very* LDS neighborhood. Our LDS neighbors were super nice to us and completely non-judgemental - they even offered us beer or wine when they would have us over for dinner.

One great thing we noticed very quickly after arriving was that hiking or fishing or climbing or biking or whatever (but not so much skiing : ) was *really* uncrowded on Sunday mornings. Everybody else was in church.

If you're a liberal, you might as well get used to the idea that your vote will be largely ceremonial. It's pretty hard to imagine Utah ever going Democrat in a Presidential election anytime in my (or your) lifetime.

All in all, the SLC area is a fabulous place to live. There's more outdoor recreation available in your backyard and within a few hours of drive time than practically anywhere. What's really cool is the diversity of recreation opportunities. You've got high-mountain environments, canyon country, deserts, lakes, open valleys, and some of the most unpopulated areas in the US. It's just amazing.

Okay, now for the non-politically correct part (sorry, Bill).

My only caution to you might be in regard to education if you have or will have K-12 kids. My own opinion as an outside observer (we don't have kids) is that there's a little bit of an us-versus-them atmosphere in much of the public school system. I think a little too much of the LDS belief system makes its way into the public schools to make me feel totally comfortable about educating my own kids, if I had any, in those systems. I'm not exactly saying I wouldn't put my kids in the public schools, but I definitely would try to get a very good feel for curriculum and activities and schedules, etc. That would be my only cause for concern if I were moving to Utah.

On the other hand, the skiing is about a thousand times better than any metropolitan area you could live in.

Have fun with the move if you do it.

post #8 of 62
It is strange that someone would be worried about a 'little bit of lds influence' in the school systems. I would much rather have something like that then gangs, condom demonstrations, and much of the cr@p most other metro-schools teach these days.

I'm not a mormon, but most of my wife's family is and they never make it an issue.. They have not once tried to convert me, drag me to church or treat me different because I don't go to church. I visit Utah and the SLC area regularly and this whole issue of 'scarey mormons' is really rediculous.

The SLC area in general is very nice, with lower cost of living then here in the Seattle area and low crime compared to most other areas of the country AND great ski areas all within an hour drive. The hot-dry summers are nice too!
post #9 of 62
Originally Posted by MrHyak

It is strange that someone would be worried about a 'little bit of lds influence' in the school systems. I would much rather have something like that then gangs, condom demonstrations, and much of the cr@p most other metro-schools teach these days.

You're absolutely right, of course.

Values such as hard work and family strength are certainly preferable to gangs and drugs in schools. No argument there.

Still, I'm a person who grew up believing very, very strongly that one of the most basic tenets of the American system is the separation of church and state. I think that concept gets just a bit skewed in some of Utah's school systems (and some of my LDS friends agree).

Chriscam's question had to do with any concerns about living in Utah. I tried pretty hard to enumerate all the reasons that I think it's a great idea, but I also wanted to at least make him aware of something that *might* be a concern for certain people. He might look into the issue and decide I'm a paranoid crackpot, but at least he will have known enough to consider the question.

post #10 of 62
Bob makes a lot of good points about getting out and meeting like minded people. Salt lake city is a vary nice City. It is now about 50/50 LDS to non LDS. There is a liberal element in and around Utah. Infact there was a poll of voters and it showed 30% support for Kerry. Now that does not sound like much but for Utah that is a vary big number.
post #11 of 62
Originally Posted by MrHyak
It is strange that someone would be worried about a 'little bit of lds influence' in the school systems. I would much rather have something like that then gangs, condom demonstrations, and much of the cr@p most other metro-schools teach these days.
I dunno, I think Bob is pretty much on target. My wife went to a 90+% Mormon school and had a horrible time. As I'm sure you know children can be very petty and there is a lot of pressure to conform, esp. in a soceity with one dominate (and dominating) world view. Its one of the reasons we moved to Park City, though there are certainly very good schools in SLC (dopn't know about Ogden). But I would give it some thought if it were my children.
post #12 of 62

A Mormon speaks

As a skiing Mormon, I have been both amused and bemused over the years by comments made on this and other ski forums in regards to Utah's culture (or lack thereof), in general, and Mormons in particular. There are plenty of idiosyncrasies relative to Mormon culture, and some have produced a number of myths and misconceptions. In an effort to steer people away and off to places like Missoula where they can bug Gonzo rather than clutter up Utah, I have been tempted to help perpetuate those myths, as I tried to do in my tongue-in-cheek "Utah Conspiracy" thread (and thanks to Pilot 3D for the kind words and to Bonni for the comparison to The Onion):

I mean, as a nearly-life long resident of this state, I have to admit that it's been pretty nice over the years to have much of this state's natural playground all to myself along with a few other enlightened players, both Mormon and Gentile. But like it or not, the times they are a-changin’. It's been getting more and more crowded (and not just because we Mormons all have 18 kids and two wives). Obviously, the word is out, and since Chriscam has asked, I hope you’ll allow me the opportunity to respond. If you already know all you need to know about Mormon culture in Utah and feel that this has no business on a ski forum, by all means, move on to another thread.

We Mormons are a strange group. We can be self-righteous, hypocritical, and boring one minute, and then compassionate, open, and boring the next. Practicing Mormons aren’t supposed to drink alcohol or smoke, yet a fair number of "in-active" Mormons, as well as a few active ones, do (the actives do most of their puffing in the privacy of their pickups and their drinking around the deer hunt campfire). We tend to vote straight-ticket Republican, yet have had some great Democrats for Governor (Scott Matheson and Cal Rampton). We elect ultra-conservative Orrin Hatch for Senator, then watch as he leads the fight for stem cell research. And we’re OK with that. We’re quick to vote down zoning for a brew pub (in my hometown), but continue to resist adequate funding for our overcrowded school rooms. We are thin-skinned whenever the national media points out our strange ways, but we donate millions toward food, clothing, and medical supplies to alleviate disasters around the world. In other words, we’re really not much different from most people.

OK, OK, . . . so we ARE a just a wee bit different. As to your concerns:

I would say that you’ll be fine moving to Utah. Ogden has lost some of its luster over the years, but is trying to get some polish back. Its downtown is a bit tired and vacant, but has experienced a resurgence as of late. I like the area above town (towards the mountains). It’s a bit old, but there are some nice homes up around Weber State University. You’ll find more non-Mormon culture in Ogden than in any other Utah city outside of SLC thanks to a number of Federal Government employers in the area, such as Hill Air Force Base. To the east of Ogden, behind Snowbasin, lie two small, rural valleys - Huntsville, Eden, and Liberty to the north, and Mountain Green and Morgan to the south. Nice areas, predominantly Mormon, but with a number of commuters and second-homers just starting to move in (kind of like Park City/Summit County in the mid-sixties). As noted by Bob Peters and others, most of us Mormons are friendly and more than happy to not bother you with proselytizing, especially if you politely decline any offers to learn more. And yes, we are busy with church meetings on Sunday, so Snowbasin will be EMPTY (but then, it’s rarely crowded). If you’re used to major cultural events, you’ll probably have to drive to SLC, although Ogden does have some things, thanks in part to Weber State. I’m a teetotaler so I have no clue as to drinking establishments, but I know there are a few taverns and restaurants in the rejuvenated historic part of downtown.

As to schools, Bob makes some good points, but as a Mormon, a democrat (you think life is hard for non-Mormons in Utah, try being a Mormon Democrat) and a public school teacher for 26 years, I will say that it depends. I’ve know and taught plenty of non-Mormon students and I’ve found that on a high school level, the non-Mormon kids who had positive experiences were those who were quick to join clubs, teams, and activities. In other words, pro-active. While the "us vs. them" mentality can occur, it seems to me more often a result of other conflicts involving (1) majority vs. minority ethnic groups (in my school, a sizable Hispanic group, along with some Polynesian, native Americans, and African Americans) and (2) the economic "haves vs. have nots" which does include both Mormon and non-Mormon. The difficulty at this age is that socially, most Mormons will go out with non-Mormons in groups, but when it comes time for dating, many Mormons will date only other Mormons. This has to do with the emphasis in the church on marriage and families being eternal (for more doctrinal info, PM me). I’m not going to defend this behavior; I merely tell the reality. Again, this is not always the case, but often. As to classroom curriculum, I can only speak for my school, but I know that the Mormon faculty is very concerned that everyone is treated and taught in a fair and balanced way. I won’t say that all teachers in Utah (both Mormon and non) manage this, but I think we do a pretty credible job at my high school. We even teach birth control, evolution, and such subversive literature as Grapes of Wrath and Huckleberry Finn.

While I would never suggest that Utah is like every other state in the union, I think it has a number of unique things to offer, especially the variety of and close proximity to such neat outdoor venues. The downside is that much of the Mormon culture is NOT going to change. That does NOT mean that changes in laws and politics can’t occur; it’s just that you’ll have to be willing to work and wait in the meantime. If this doesn’t sound good to you, then I’d really consider a number of other wonderful western states for your move.

If you, or any others, have more specific questions regarding Mormons and what makes us tick, PM me.
post #13 of 62


hey bill...what about that strange underwear thing? : The skiing definitely "rocks" though...

"face shots for everyone"
post #14 of 62
Originally Posted by Bill Emmett
As a skiing Mormon, I have been both amused and bemused over the years by comments made on this and other ski forums in regards to Utah's culture (or lack thereof), in general, and Mormons in particular. ...
Great post Bill! And right on target.

Just one quick note -- I think you are right that high school is not an issue, I went to public high school in UT at prob. the school with the smallest Mormon population (~40%), but I do think grade and middle school are a little different. In High School there is a much larger population and you can always find a crowd that you can hang out with. But I do think -- again speaking from other's experience, not my own -- that ealier years can be a problem. This is after all the heart of the indoctrination period for people and everything comes on string. I don't think my wife's issues were ever with the teachers or curriculum, it had a lot more to do w/ other students and parents. And, I must say that that was a couple of decades past -- it would be useful for parents to talk to people with younger children in school now.

There are some issues with living here but I would classify them as annoyances, not genuine problems. It can get a little overbearing at times when you discover that all of the people making the liquor laws in the state aren't actually consumers but that can be lived with.

btw, I'm speaking as at least a fourth generation Utahn.

Hope we'll have a chance to ski together this year!
post #15 of 62
Originally Posted by Lodro

Just one quick note -- I think you are right that high school is not an issue, I went to public high school in UT at prob. the school with the smallest Mormon population (~40%), but I do think grade and middle school are a little different. In High School there is a much larger population and you can always find a crowd that you can hang out with. But I do think -- again speaking from other's experience, not my own -- that ealier years can be a problem.
Very true Lodro. I taught for two years in a middle school that had fewer than 10 Mormons in the entire studentbody (two being my daughters) and it was a good experience for them to be outside of the Mormon Majority. They made some great friends, both Mormon and non, and had a good experience. I would hope that all the schools in Utah are becoming more tolerant and sympathetic.

As to skiing, I'm all in favor of a get together. I'm always up for The Canyons or a meeting at Snowbasin. Keep me posted once the snow flies.
post #16 of 62
Can we all just get along?!

On a more serious note, I must say that I enjoyed Bill's post immensely.
post #17 of 62
I may have a couple insights for Chriscam. I moved to SLC from upstate NY about 4 years ago, not knowing anything about the local culture. I am a public school teacher (West Jordan High School - math department), with a wife and two young uns.

First of all, I would not recommend Ogden (you can read the other user comments). However, N. Ogden (or Pleasant View) is just northeast of Ogden, and appears to be a decent area in the Wasatch foothills.

The local culture is goofy - if you let it get to you. More or less, you can live a completely normal life...with the exception of drinking 3.2 beer and dealing with the idiotic education system here. (I don't know if you have kids). The educational system has a LOT to be desired. They are heavy on the arts -- dance, music, etc. Very weak requirements for math and science. The only reason kids succeed in those areas is their own personal motivation, or that of their parents. On the other hand, I am the only completely non-mormon in the math department (there is one inactive), and I am treated completely as an equal. And I think in the classrooms, you won't see many religious issues...at least from my perspective. But because education is such a concern, about a year ago I went through a period of contemplation, thinking it would be better to move out of state.

Which brings me to the third thing...the skiing here is better than anywhere in the continental US (with the possible exception of JH). The snow quality and terrain is unmatched. As others mentioned, the slopes are EMPTY on Sundays (except on big powder days when the resorts tend to fill up a little more). Usually I will ski backcountry on Sat, and Alta on Sunday.

Finally, for any of you local yokels, being relatively new here in Ut, I myself only have one or two dedicated ski partners. If anyone wants to reach out...let me know.

Peace n' Powder
post #18 of 62
Its horrible here! Don't move here. You will like CO better
post #19 of 62
Thread Starter 
Thanks all! It's great to get opinions from both sides of the lds. My wife and I do not have kids and aren't planning on for a while anyway. We basically had a few prerequisites in finding a place to move to. Within an hour or so of a decent ski resort and major airport; close to lots of outdoor fun; reasonable cost of living (compared to Boston everything else is reasonable though). We visited Ogden this past fall and obviously it has all the above. We're obviously not moving to any place just for the people and culture so I think we can live with a few "quirky" laws and wht not.
For those that live in Park City...What is the cost of living (ie houses) like out there?
post #20 of 62
Park City is much more expensive than the rest of Utah, and is in the same ballpark as most other Western resort towns. Its all relative to where you came from though. We moved from San Francisco and found the housing prices cheap. If you move from the Mid West they may seem outrageous. Look @ real estate/rent prices online for the area. If they shock you, then avoid Park City. Beware however of the resort town rip off: everything from groceries to dining out is at least 25% more than in nearby non-resort towns. BTW Heber, Kamas & Oakley are great little towns near Park City but much cheaper.

post #21 of 62
I'm going to disagree with Powdr on just a few things. If you look at the cost of houseing in other westren resort towns Park City is still a pretty good deal. The closer you get to the resort areas the more expensive. It is still possible to find a small 2 or 3 Bedroom home in the mid $200,000 to $300,000 price range in the outlining areas of Park City. If you look at the average price in Park City keep in mind that 2 or 3 sales of multi million Dollar Deer Valley homes can really change those numbers. Becuse of all the timeshare and new properties that has come on line in the past couple of years there is a glut of seasonal rental properties right now. It is getting hard to rent older Condos becuse of that there is now a number of older condos in need of some fixing up on the market. As Powdr said Oakly Kamas Heber and Midway are all about 15 to 20 mins from Park City. They are nice little towns, close to skiing rivers lakes ect and a good value. Once you get to know The area you can shave a lot off your cost of living. Your still close to Salt Lake City and I try to buy gas and some food at Costco about every two weeks. A major ski tune now cost me a case of good beer Mounting bindings is about the same. I can get passes to Deer Valley from friends who work there. There are discount passes to be found for all the area resorts from Alta to Powder Mountain. This is a vary active community. Park City is growing yet still has a small town feel. do some homework on this area you might find what your looking for here in Summit county.
post #22 of 62
I second 49. There are decent homes for under 300K in the PC. area. Do you need to work in Ogden? it's a good 20 degrees cooler up here in the summers. Taxes are low. I loved what Bill said. I taught at BYU for five years and I'm a profane New Yorker. The kids were smart and hard working and pretty straight up republican types. That's the culture. You don't have to worry about your students smoking crack. (although I had a nice LDS girl babysitter who had this little meth thing- go figure.) SLC proper (old town) is traditionally democrat and has a liberal democrat mayor. That's where I lived before I moved to P.C.- my students all said I'd be happiest there and I was. Except it was HOT in summer- but then you can shovel two feet of champaign powder in your Sorels, pajamas and a bathrobe. Try that in Minnesota. The non- mormon churches are strong, if your'e into that. Oddly, there's a big gay population in SLC. which is nice because you can get a decent haircut. The old army fort in SLC had the guns pointing down into the town in the 19th century. Gotta love that. Let's get a local Bears club ski day going- I missed the last two clinics because I had to work- but I no work on Saterday....
Mr. Crab- aka Rubob
post #23 of 62
P.S.- I have a friend who just moved out from the East to work for Marker and she's got a nice two bedroom floor of a house in a hip SLC neighborhood (9th and 9th) for around $500 a month. So you can rent.
post #24 of 62
Let's make sure there is some clarification here. The cheapest part of town (Prospector) has smallish (2-3 bedroom) houses in a decent neighborhood. These are typical inexpensive development style houses on small city lots with little view. You find a mixed group of people in this neighborhood: retirees, families, ski bums & HUD housing. There are limited quantities of these units due a relatively small area and high demand. The vast majority of Park City is considerably more expensive. Simple 4 bedroom family homes go for $500k & up in Thaynes, Park Meadows & Old Town. Nice contemporary mountain style homes start in the $700k range. Deer Valley is even more. So it is technically correct that $300k houses exist, just not a lot of them.

post #25 of 62

On second thought...

After a lot of reflection, I'm leaning toward agreeing with MrHyak's sentiments about how concerned I would/should be as a parent of a child in most of Utah's public schools.

I realized that my own K-12 schooling took place in another time (the 60's) and another place (Iowa). While Des Moines really isn't the cornfield flatland most of you probably think it is, it isn't exactly "urban" by any stretch of the imagination either. Gangs and weapons were unheard of and "drugs" referred to a few kids in high school who smoked pot. Consequently, my frame of reference about what's truly important in education today is colored by an experience that doesn't even exist anymore.

As I think about all of the temptations and outright dangers that kids today face in many urban school environments, I start to think that oblique religious references seem so harmless as to be insignificant. When you compare that to guns, hard drugs, gangs, assaults, war-zone schools, etc, it seems kind of silly to even consider it. As Bill points out, there are checks and balances built into the system and I suspect that for the most part they probably work pretty well at keeping undue religious influence out of *most* of Utah's public schools. That's what parental involvement is all about as well.

This whole question did remind me of one of the things that most impressed my wife and I after moving to Utah. For our first New Year's Eve in Utah, we had heard about a celebration in downtown SLC called "First Night". It sounded like fun so we went downtown, expecting (we were new to SLC, what did we know?) wild partying from bar to bar and whatnot.

What we found instead was a massive party for families and kids. All the cultural centers were open with family-oriented displays available. There were magicians and jugglers and bands on the streets and in the malls. The Salt Palace was chock-full of tables piled high with arts and crafts donated by local businesses. Families were there dressing up kids in all kinds of costumes and it was just delightful watching kids and their parents pawing through fabric and beads and sequins and so on to put their costumes together. Then everybody - parents and kids - went on a big parade down Main Street. It was festive and fun and wholesome and COOL and it didn't take a bit of alcohol to make all that happen. We couldn't stop telling all our non-Utah friends how amazing it was. Things like that are also an important part of the overall Utah experience.

And Bill, thanks for your message. I'm sure it gets annoying when you hear unfair characterizations about your faith, but you always handle it with class, patience, and humor.

And let me know if you all put together a Bears ski gathering in Utah this winter. If it's at all possible, I'll come down and join you. I'd love to make some Wasatch turns again.

post #26 of 62
Originally Posted by Powdr
So it is technically correct that $300k houses exist, just not a lot of them.

THere is still stock in the Synderville area around the 300k price poiont but it is getting harder to find. I think there are still plenty of single-family homes in Pine Brook, trailside and other areas nearby.
post #27 of 62
Originally Posted by Bob Peters
f it's at all possible, I'll come down and join you. I'd love to make some Wasatch turns again.


And, aynone up for a Bears gathering Friday Dec. 12 for PC opening day benefit? ($15 a ticket).
post #28 of 62
The median home price is about 500K, true. But there's a Real Estate outfit called "affordable Park City" or something like that- a little time on Google should turn them up. Prospector is a fine neighborhood- compared to almost anywhere- but no panoramic view until you step out the front door. I was thinking of Silver Summit just over the hill off highway forty. There are some nifty new houses there in the 300 range and lots of open space. Pinebrook has bargains. The other option under 300 is condos and townhouses.
The Bear Hollow condos have three bedrooms for mid 200s and you can hit the Canyons with a rock from there. It's nice up there- it's a planned community with a skating rink on the way, it backs up onto the mountainside that the Olympic ski jumps are. I followed a moose up there and was surprised on how quiet and secluded it felt once you got off the main road. Chatham Crossing townhouses (3 bedroom) went for mid 300's and that's a real nice spot just off Prospector. The new Fox Point townhouses at Redstone (Kimbal Junction) are all under 3. Of course, a cool mill or six will get you into the classier neighborhoods- but many of them are ghosttowns because the owners are only there two weeks a year. But if that's not right for you, Salt Lake is 40 minutes down the hill and has Alta close by. Some prefer there because ther's more happening socially, etc. Anyway, for somebody coming off one of the coasts, with prices and taxes the way they are there, Utah is a bargain. I'm a little fuzzy on the attractions of Ogden (sorry Bill). I'm not sure we should invite everyone to our peice of paradise, but we can always use another skier or two. Here's to opening day!

To add- what Bob was saying about the general lack of strife around here is why I chose Utah to raise a family. Although last week some "youths" knocked off Key Bank again in park City and fled up into the woods behind my neighborhood. They got away.
post #29 of 62

2 more cents

I am not sure I have anything to say that has not been said, but hey it’s the web. My wife and I (not Mormon) have lived in SL (actually Cottonwood Heights) since 1996, today we are in our early 30’s and have two small ones.

Basically with my job, I can work almost anywhere in the US between here and OH (my wife is an elementary teacher) – and we still live here. So for any complaints that I might have, keep that in mind (and the fact that I am a season passholder at Alta/Bird).

As far as where to live, I am not a strong proponent of Ogden. As already has been suggested, I think you will find many more similar minded people in SL or PC. Believe me w/o family nearby this has become important for us and our friends. It is our support network. We have a fair amount of friends, but I only count one Mormon (my wife has more) as a friend. It is not that we are anti-them and LDS anti-us, it is just we tend to hang with people that are more similar to us.

Some Utah tidbits:
 My four year old has the learned the song from daycare – I belong to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. She has also informed us that drinking coffee is bad. This has annoyed us, and almost prompted us to move to PC.
 My wife, as a teacher, has seen much of what has been discussed and overall has mixed feelings of sending our kids to public school here. Schools and teachers are great, we just do not want our kids to feel left out. However we also believe that our kids are social enough to make many great friends, and this will likely be the reason that we send them to public school.
 This summer one of our friends had his 40th birthday and had a keg of beer (very illegal in UT). Anyhow one of their neighbors is one of the five people on the Liquor Control Board (a Mormon) and he made no big deal of the blatant violation, and seemed to enjoy himself at the Gentile party.

When you get to UT, feel free to email me, and we would be glad to introduce you around the place.

On a more important note, I went mountain biking today on the trails between PC/Dear Valet, and it snowed on me. So get em’ waxed up.
post #30 of 62
I recently had a post about moving to North Carolina. Utah would be our other choice. In NC, we like the Asheville & western part of the state. If we concider Utah, we would prefer either slopeside or a shuttle bus ride to the hill. Which hill? TBA. Our first thought about Utah was the dreeded word...Mormon...like everyone else. This was a similier thought we had about the south...Confeterates!...it wasn't the case down there and I doubt it will be the case in Utah...IMO, all areas are becoming "melting pots" of social, political and religous beliefs. At this point it is "to each his/her own" and respect will work both ways.

As far as Ogden, I hear that the Mayor is trying real hard to get the town to be a ski industry town. Marker in there. Goode is either there or on the way. He is making deals that cannot be refused.
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