New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Skiing with goals - Page 2

post #31 of 47
The shameful, non-technical truth:


My own goals, hopes - whatever - when free skiing:

- Feeling kinesthetic pleasure (as when dancing).

- Feeling physically in control (as when driving an automobile).

- Feeling challenged (as when facing an opponent in tennis) and meeting the challenge.

- Add it up: Feeling JOY! For me, no other reason to ski. Whenever I begin a run while free skiing, I am seeking JOY, and that intent dictates technique in the circumstances then existing. All skills that I learn are tools to assist in achieving this joy, and JOY is what free skiing means to me. Anything else, howsoever it may be of value otherwise, is not free skiing.

My own goals, hopes, when teaching:

- Accurately assessing the skills, needs, capabilities, expectations and hopes of the student(s)

- Providing information, demonstrations and exercises to (a) allow the student to FEEL the technique and (b) to allow the student to take from the instruction sufficient information and exercises to re-create the technique and experience the FEELING of the technique, with practice.

- Creating an experience for the student resulting in the student's increased confidence and JOY in skiing, the desire to seek challenge, and an emotional and mental link between intent, technique, and JOY!


Is this anything like what you had in mind, Roto?
post #32 of 47
Great thread Roto.

Skiing for me, is a love of movement, and a love of the sensations of those movements along with the sensations of the world around me all harmonizing together into one moment to moment experience. It's turned on therapy like no other. Later, RicB.

Those that know, do. Those that understand, teach. - Aristotle.
post #33 of 47
Question: If joyous sensation is the purpose of free sking, what impact should that have on instruction?
post #34 of 47
Thread Starter 
Do not worry about what I have in mind, oboe. Just look deeper into your own. In skiing you cannot experience those feelings you are talking about without doing. So what is it that you do that elicits those feelings?
post #35 of 47
Thread Starter 
nolo

To control rate of descent...

That does seem to get to the root of intent.

It certainly is not not 'a technique', Any number of techniques might be applied to the goal, and techniques will change as terrain and conditions change.

And it is most likely much better info to give a coach than "I am working on clean edge changes," no? But I guess that depends on the situation.

Nice quote from Mr Sartre. and the piece about pure doing; Sweet.

Those who can, do. Those who cannot, teach. Where did that quote come from?
post #36 of 47
Thread Starter 
DM

On the comparison between racing and certification what occurs to me is that there is but one spot at the top (in racing). One single winning place. With certification there is no such limit, anyone who tests themselves and performs at, to or above the standard is successful.

I hope I'm not being too redundant in mentioning again that many people seeking certification come at it with purposes that are completely different from the whole purpose of cert. programs. It's like an apples and oranges thing, thus the things that they strive to show during the process simply "Do Not Apply" and either leave a "blank" in the application, or worse, get "mis-applied" by those doing the assessments because they are working within certain framework of information.

Lets not forget that PSIA certification IS specific to PSIA information and systems. It is not an assessment of the entire world of skiing or entire continuum of skiing skills. It tests the knowledge and application instructors possess of PSIA information and systems. So what, Microsoft certifies network admins etc. etc, in the use of their systems. Many companies and fields of work involve this type of specific certification. All that certification shows is the person has a certain level of knowledge and ability to use said system. I think that is completely fair.

I have heard this phrase, or some such similar ones several times from the mouths of trainers directors or others somehow in leadership/training roles..

"Well the way PSIA does it is....(insert info)....but that's not the way we do it here..."

Really there isn't anything 'wrong' with that opinion, but there certainly is a predisposition toward failure in training instructors for PSIA certification exams with that attitude. I would say that it shows a marked lack of caring about the candidates and at least a degree off narcssism in the trainer!

Certification isn't about:
proving oneself
being better than the next person.
overcoming our previous shortcoming or failures
one-bettering joe blow or suzie q
proving you are right and they are wrong

or any other number of intents save one.

To prove a specific level of knowledge and application of PSIA teaching systems and information.

All that other proving stuff has it's place in the real world of skiing and teaching.
post #37 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roto
Do not worry about what I have in mind, oboe. Just look deeper into your own. In skiing you cannot experience those feelings you are talking about without doing. So what is it that you do that elicits those feelings?
Roto, in your opening post at the top of this thread, you asked, "What goal(s) do instructors ski for?" Your question has morphed, it seems, to go a step further: "If those are your goals, what do you do to achieve them?"

Wouldn't that depend upon the circumstances - shallow pitch, steep pitch, open groomed, bumps, trees, powder, crud?
post #38 of 47
Roto,

The saying you are wondering about has a third line: Those who can neither do nor teach, teach P.E.

I don't know where it came from...

As for intent, I think if I skied with the intent of controlling speed, I would ski differently than if I skied with the intent of making a clean and smooth edge change.
The former is a defensive intent and the latter is an offensive intent.

I think I could tell my coach that and she'd understand.
post #39 of 47
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oboe
Roto, in your opening post at the top of this thread, you asked, "What goal(s) do instructors ski for?" Your question has morphed, it seems, to go a step further: "If those are your goals, what do you do to achieve them?"
I think I asked the wrong question to begin with by using the word goal. So yes, the question has morphed. I'm still trying to figure out how to ask a question that doesn't automatically bring a "technique" answer, for "techniques" are the things we do to acheive our goals!

any ideas?

Quote:
Originally Posted by oboe
Wouldn't that depend upon the circumstances - shallow pitch, steep pitch, open groomed, bumps, trees, powder, crud?
That makes sense to me. Although, it may not be the case if we really get to the root of intent. Our intent may stay the same throughout varying conditions while the technique needs to realize it.

Take nolo's answer for example. "Controlling rate of descent"(different I think than controlling speed since one can ski the [BB]slow line fast or the fast line slow[/BB]) different techniques need be employed to realize this in different snow conditions/ slopes, etc.

2 possible acid tests for intent

If it is a "technique" it is not intent.
If conditions demand it's change it is not intent.
post #40 of 47
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nolo
Roto,

The saying you are wondering about has a third line: Those who can neither do nor teach, teach P.E.

I don't know where it came from...

As for intent, I think if I skied with the intent of controlling speed, I would ski differently than if I skied with the intent of making a clean and smooth edge change.
The former is a defensive intent and the latter is an offensive intent.

I think I could tell my coach that and she'd understand.
nolo, can controlling speed mean gaining as well as limiting? Though I like the "controlling rate of descent" much better. To me it's different than controlling speed.
post #41 of 47
So do I. But most people interpret that as anti- and not pro-gravity.

I take your point!
post #42 of 47

My attempt

Roto,
Having been at the same event as you, heres my input. You said

Quote:
we had no problem with free skiing goals when we spoke of off piste, or very challenging terrain, but otherwise, skiing groomers, doing demos, etc. etc. some of us were stumped.
I feel you can apply the same thoughts from your off piste/challenging terrain, to the groomers/demos. Where on the challenging terrain it may be focusing on where and when to turn, what hit to go off and what style to throw. In the groomer/Demo turns it will be focused on the turn shape and the skill blend desired for those turns or that run...When I am free skiing, at the top of the run, before I push off, I visualize the first 2-3 turns, where the arc is, how much carve, skid or slip (depending on the demo). I also visualize where I want to be going at the end of that 2nd or 3rd turn, then as the run developes if I maintain that 2-3 turn visualization ahead of my current turn then I feel I have accomplished my "Goal" for that run. If however I let my mind start thinking about how I blew that last turn, well, then I have not made the "Goal" and the visualiztion falls apart.

By visualizing the turns before they happen I allow my body to make the movements I've been training it to do with out incumbering those muscle movements with "Overthink" (The muscle-spin-muscle pathway is much faster than the muscle-spine-brain-spine-muscle pathway)

RL
post #43 of 47
"Thinking body, dancing mind."
post #44 of 47
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockpyle
If however I let my mind start thinking about how I blew that last turn, well, then I have not made the "Goal" and the visualiztion falls apart.

By visualizing the turns before they happen I allow my body to make the movements I've been training it to do with out incumbering those muscle movements with "Overthink" (The muscle-spin-muscle pathway is much faster than the muscle-spine-brain-spine-muscle pathway)

RL
Hello Brother! Is this accurate as to your intent then? To visualize turns before you make them and bring them to life?

Whoa
post #45 of 47
My goal generally is to find a flow and constantly be agressive regardless of the terrain. That means if I am skiing on a blue groomer I am making powerful high speed GS turns look for air anywhere I can find it. If I am deep in the woods I want to link as many turns in whatever given situation, and stay agressive, always keep forward! Of course sometimes lines are so hairy you change the priorities. Still stay agressive, just survive becomes the mantra on those lines. If you do not stay agressive the mountain will tear you a new one when you least expect it.

Alfonse
post #46 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roto
Is this accurate as to your intent then? To visualize turns before you make them and bring them to life?
Yes, but specific to the ski path, Have you ever tried "Getting into anothers boots" by sink skiing them then adjust to match their line? this would be simular to visualizing the turns...
post #47 of 47
Thread Starter 
RP

I think I get it. I definitley use turn visualization at times and coach it as well, but the thought of skiing with it as an "intent" takes it to a whole new level for me. Thanks... you ski god you...
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Ski Instruction & Coaching