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Boot Forward Lean Comparison

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 
Is there any data anywhere on forward lean for boot models?

I'm in a Salomon XWave 9 from a few years ago. I'm shopping for new boots and thinking I want a bit more forward lean in my new boots. Also looking for something tad more grabby in the heal.

I'll be going to try stuff on tomorrow night. The shop has Rossi, Nortica, Atomtic, Dalbello, Head, and maybe Salomon.
post #2 of 24
The Nordica W series (I think the Beast too?) has quite a bit of ramp angle and fits a wide forefoot with a narrower heel. It had too much ramp for me, that's how I ended up with the Solly. The bootfitter in the shop can tell you a lot more than I can however. If he/she can't... than look for another shop.
post #3 of 24
Forward lean and ramp angle are two different animals although they do often share a relationship. (sluts)

Out of curiosity and a hunch why do you think you need more forward lean?
post #4 of 24
Couldn't resist this one! The Salomon x-wave's have 16 degrees of forward lean without the spoiler a bit more with. Ramp angle is around 5 degrees (it varies slightly with boot size). These numbers are fairly typical of most boots today. Forward angles range from 12 to 18 degrees, zeppa angles from 4 to 8 degrees.

As soon as someone tells me they want a boot with more forward lean and a tighter heel pocket, I immediately suspect someone who is already overlevered by the position of their boots.

Increasing forward lean of a boot does not move you forward it creates more bends in the body, primarily at the waist.

Most cases involving "loose heels' are really fore/aft balance issues. The net angle of the boot exceeds the amount of ankle flexion available and the heel has to come up.
While it is impossible to determine stance on-line i would suggest that perhaps less forward lean or delta ramp (binding) would be indicated.
jl
post #5 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOOTech,Inc.
Couldn't resist this one! The Salomon x-wave's have 16 degrees of forward lean without the spoiler a bit more with. Ramp angle is around 5 degrees (it varies slightly with boot size). These numbers are fairly typical of most boots today. Forward angles range from 12 to 18 degrees, zeppa angles from 4 to 8 degrees.

As soon as someone tells me they want a boot with more forward lean and a tighter heel pocket, I immediately suspect someone who is already overlevered by the position of their boots.

Increasing forward lean of a boot does not move you forward it creates more bends in the body, primarily at the waist.

Most cases involving "loose heels' are really fore/aft balance issues. The net angle of the boot exceeds the amount of ankle flexion available and the heel has to come up.
While it is impossible to determine stance on-line i would suggest that perhaps less forward lean or delta ramp (binding) would be indicated.
jl
Any numbers on the Salomon X2 Lab?
post #6 of 24
The heel pockets on Salomons loosen up alot.

Just take them to a good bootfitter and they can tighten them back up.

I also think that the X-Waves have plenty of forward lean.
post #7 of 24
I'm actually looking for the opposite... less forward lean. Any recommendations for boot like that?

Coming from an X-wave 10: love the positioning, hate the plastic
Tried an Icon XT: Loved the plastic and the feel, couldn't handle the forward lean. Felt like I was halfway into a squat, and my ankles couldn't flex anymore than the static position.

Need something high performance with a tight heel. I plan on plenty of work after that to make my high-arched duckfeet fit the front.
post #8 of 24
What about something like the Lange 120 Freeride?
post #9 of 24
Take a look at some of the head boots. More upright than most I have heard, nd that's what I found in my own personal experience. Their ramp angle is around 5- 6 degrees, and easily modified. Larer, RicB.
post #10 of 24
L2T, Do you, by chance, have a skinny calf-or a very high calf muscle? If so you will benefit from a shim, or spoiler, between the shell and liner in the rear to fill in for your lack of calf. The size of your calf has a big impact on the effective forward lean of a boot. The fact that your heel is loose may be a clue that you are slight of build.

Lange boots have a low volume fit and lots of forward lean. You should probably try some on. Good luck, Lew
post #11 of 24
At present the most upright boot's on the market include models from Head, Atomic, Dolomite and Rossignol. As mentioned the length and thickness of your lower leg also plays a significant role in determining how much knee flexion is created by a particular boot. As does the relative height of a boot. Keep in mind almost any boot can be made more or less forward through modification. Proper fit (or contractual considerations!) should be the primary factor.

jl
post #12 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by flip
Tried an Icon XT: Loved the plastic and the feel, couldn't handle the forward lean. Felt like I was halfway into a squat, and my ankles couldn't flex anymore than the static position.
I have technicas and was able to adjust the forward lean by removing the cuff height adjuster thing (take it off completely) and put another insert in the tongue. By adding material to the front and removing from the back you decrease your forward lean.
post #13 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by descender
I have technicas and was able to adjust the forward lean by removing the cuff height adjuster thing (take it off completely) and put another insert in the tongue. By adding material to the front and removing from the back you decrease your forward lean.
Hmmmm.... worth a shot. I still have them kicking around.
post #14 of 24
The forward lean is adjustable on my Icons (the black ones not orange). There is a screw on the back of the boot cuff which controls this. The side to side angle is also adjustable for differentlower leg angles. Not sure if all Icons have these features.
post #15 of 24

Tecnica XT adjustments

Quote:
Originally Posted by TerpSKI
The forward lean is adjustable on my Icons (the black ones not orange). There is a screw on the back of the boot cuff which controls this. The side to side angle is also adjustable for differentlower leg angles. Not sure if all Icons have these features.
The XTs don't have these adjustments. Just the wedge in the back of the cuff.

But, wow!, what a boot! I've read that some are saying the new Diablo Race is even better. But, I really like my XTs.
post #16 of 24
L2T, Consider the Salomon Pro Model if you like the X-Wave 9. A snugger fit than the X-Waves.
post #17 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by flip
Coming from an X-wave 10: love the positioning, hate the plastic
Was it just the fit that was a problem for you?
post #18 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOOTech,Inc.
Couldn't resist this one! The Salomon x-wave's have 16 degrees of forward lean without the spoiler a bit more with. Ramp angle is around 5 degrees (it varies slightly with boot size). These numbers are fairly typical of most boots today. Forward angles range from 12 to 18 degrees, zeppa angles from 4 to 8 degrees.

As soon as someone tells me they want a boot with more forward lean and a tighter heel pocket, I immediately suspect someone who is already overlevered by the position of their boots.

Increasing forward lean of a boot does not move you forward it creates more bends in the body, primarily at the waist.

Most cases involving "loose heels' are really fore/aft balance issues. The net angle of the boot exceeds the amount of ankle flexion available and the heel has to come up.
While it is impossible to determine stance on-line i would suggest that perhaps less forward lean or delta ramp (binding) would be indicated.
jl
Awesome post. The last part about ankle flexion is often overlooked, methinks. There is quite a wide range between people in how much they have.
post #19 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssh

But, wow!, what a boot! I've read that some are saying the new Diablo Race is even better. But, I really like my XTs.
FWIW, I liked the XT better. You need to try them out though, they are quite different.
post #20 of 24
Thread Starter 

I'll bite

Okay, I'll bite on this one since I posted the question in the first place. I have to say that I do think the liners have packed out a bit as these boots are kinda thick in the ankle. Still, I won't argue with what you said and say that there are some balance issues I want to work on.

Despite that I'm buying new boots anyway but I really want to ask a follow up question on what you asked.

There are days when I fill like I'm pretty darn in balance and my boots feel not bad at all. There are also days like my boots are totally f#$%ed. It seems like I'm coming out of them. It may be something like you point out. Having not skied in over sixth months, this is all from memory. What baffles me is why this changes. It it is indeed balance in relationship to the lean and ramp of the boot, why is it good some days and bad others. What could radically put me in or out of balance from day to day? Conditions? Strength? Flexibility? Attitude? Mojo?

-Ken

Quote:
Originally Posted by BOOTech,Inc.
Couldn't resist this one! The Salomon x-wave's have 16 degrees of forward lean without the spoiler a bit more with. Ramp angle is around 5 degrees (it varies slightly with boot size). These numbers are fairly typical of most boots today. Forward angles range from 12 to 18 degrees, zeppa angles from 4 to 8 degrees.

As soon as someone tells me they want a boot with more forward lean and a tighter heel pocket, I immediately suspect someone who is already overlevered by the position of their boots.

Increasing forward lean of a boot does not move you forward it creates more bends in the body, primarily at the waist.

Most cases involving "loose heels' are really fore/aft balance issues. The net angle of the boot exceeds the amount of ankle flexion available and the heel has to come up.
While it is impossible to determine stance on-line i would suggest that perhaps less forward lean or delta ramp (binding) would be indicated.
jl
post #21 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lodro
Was it just the fit that was a problem for you?
Fit wasn't bad, it was fairly close to the shape of my foot. More of a problem was that the plastic is so stiff that when you tighten one buckle, the boots tightens everywhere. As a result it never felt like a close, snug fit all over, even when it was eye-popping tight. And I have very high volume forefeet so it's not that it was just too big. On the XT, if you tighten one buckle the plastic smoothly conforms to the leg just in that area. It just feels better, even though the shape is less correct out of the box for me.
post #22 of 24
Getting off on a bit of a tangent, does anyone have any recommendations about the appropriate degree of stiffness in a boot for intermediate/avanced intermediate skier who is trying to ski the whole moutain? Something that's good for groomed runs, moguls, trees, steep ungroomed, etc.? Do I want a stiff boot, or something with a softer flex?

I just had the Techica Diablo on one foot, and the Techical Rival XT on the other foot. Any recommendations as to which of the two would be best for me?
post #23 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by learn2turn
Okay, I'll bite on this one since I posted the question in the first place. I have to say that I do think the liners have packed out a bit as these boots are kinda thick in the ankle. Still, I won't argue with what you said and say that there are some balance issues I want to work on.

Despite that I'm buying new boots anyway but I really want to ask a follow up question on what you asked.

There are days when I fill like I'm pretty darn in balance and my boots feel not bad at all. There are also days like my boots are totally f#$%ed. It seems like I'm coming out of them. It may be something like you point out. Having not skied in over sixth months, this is all from memory. What baffles me is why this changes. It it is indeed balance in relationship to the lean and ramp of the boot, why is it good some days and bad others. What could radically put me in or out of balance from day to day? Conditions? Strength? Flexibility? Attitude? Mojo?

-Ken
Ken, Is there any pattern to the conditons when you feel in and out of balance. Are you more comfortable on hard or soft snow, cold or warm weather? A boot will stiffen up in the cold and not flex as well. This could throw you back when you try to flex the boot.

Do you ski on different skis with bindings with different delta angles? So many variables... Lew
post #24 of 24

re: Diablo's forward lean....

Quote:
Originally Posted by flip
Hmmmm.... worth a shot. I still have them kicking around.
Flip,
FWIW...I've also modified the rear lip-area of my Diablo's upper cuff to match my calves. That is the only issue my ankles/legs have with the boot.
Modifying the upper back cuff very easily by grinding off the upper build-up of pebax, using a smooth grindstone lastly really produces a smooth surface(particularly on the somewhat softer than previous years pebax)thus creating a progressive flaring-out, which is Extremely comfortable, yet secure fit
I cut down the height of the back of the liner a little bit..took my time to preserve shape & feel...then resewed.

$.02
Steve
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