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Look P12 Bindings Mounted Badly?

post #1 of 29
Thread Starter 
Recently a local ski shop mounted Look P12 bindings, sans any plate, on my Dynastar 4800's.On casual inspection, I noticed that the front part of the bindings were not centered on the middle white line that the 4800's have. When I looked closely, the front sections of both bindings appeared to be angled about five or so degrees to the right, and were closer to the right side of the ski.

Did the shop screw up?

Thanks, Mainiac
post #2 of 29
If you have any question that the shop mounted your skis wrong you should take them back and ask to speak with the owner/manager. ALSO, you should take them to another shop and see what they say. Sounds like you know that the binding should be centered over the ski (unless they're super fat, but it sounds like it's a mid-fat). Looking up at my look p14 right now, and I don't see how the toe piece could be angled in any way.
post #3 of 29
The top sheet graphics are not always straight on the ski, so try measuring from both sides to see if they really are crooked or not.
post #4 of 29
Go with epic's advice. If you have an adjustable square, put the body against the side of the ski so the blade can be adjusted to touch the side of the binding (its' base). Then flip the square to the other side of the ski at the same point.
If the end of the blade either overlaps the binding base or does not touch it, then the base is not centered. Probably a combo of sloppy work/sloppy jig.
post #5 of 29
something to keep in mind, if they did screw up, and admit it, request/demand another pair of skis be provided. Shops typically only drill skis three times before they will refuse to do any further work on them, so if it was a shotty mounting, then have them provide you with new skis so there is only one set of mount holes.
post #6 of 29
Thread Starter 
epic and John J:

I used a micrometer and discovered this: The rear of both heel/back sections of the bindings are centered. Moving forward, the front of the heel/back sections begin to angle off slightly. The off angle, about 3-5 degrees, continues forward through the front/toe section of the binding, making the center of the front adjusting screw .15+ inch off center. The off angle is clearly visible.

Wouldn't the mild angle affect turns?

And, as you mentioned John J, should I demand Alpine order me new skis?

Thanks again, from one extremely irritated Mainiac
post #7 of 29
Originally Posted by Mainiac
Wouldn't the mild angle affect turns?
I should think so. Are they both angled in the same direction? Or would it be both toes out (or in if you swap the skis).

BTW: what's a guy with a name like Mainiac doing in SC? I figured you must be from Maine.
post #8 of 29
1/8+ off center? I think the clearly visible part is the key. Sloppy jig... could keep happening. Talk to the owner with skis in hand. Don't see them being able to redrill
them... rental fleet.
post #9 of 29
Originally Posted by Mainiac
epic and John J:
should I demand Alpine order me new skis?
I would.
post #10 of 29
Thread Starter 
Thanks! epic the angles are both in the same direction, so the jig or whatever must have been way off, the techie hungover. Have sent digital pix to Peter Keelty for his opinion.

I am from Maine, but now (when you get kicked out of town, act as though you are at the head of the parade) live here in hurricane riddled, whoops, here comes another one, SC. I have hurricane pennants running on my flagpole right now.

That Alpine screwed those skis up kills me. I did not notice it until I got them home and really looked them over. I damn well will ask for new ones.

thanks...... from the extremely irritated but resolute Mainiac
post #11 of 29
Originally Posted by BigE
I would.
Me too.
post #12 of 29
on a side note the shop should be happy (relatively) to find out their jig is crooked so don't go in on the warpath. the arms that stick down from the jig to hold it in the center of the ski will sometimes get bent when dropped, which is what it looks like in this case.
post #13 of 29
Thread Starter 

Point taken. The previous work I have had done at Alpine has been excellent. I'll bet they did not even notice it.

post #14 of 29
Thread Starter 
Well, I returned the skis to Alpine Saturday morning and the manager agreed the bindings were off center. He said he had not personally installed the bindings, and jig was old and could not really handle fat skis. He said he would try to "repair" them, and if he could not, he would get me new skis. I expressed my concern about another set of holes in the skis, and he said there are marvelous new substances which will make it like new, etc. If he redrills the rear binding holes, they will just about be on top of the old holes. I do not see how that will be safe. Any comments about liability?
post #15 of 29
I don't see the rework happening... holes too close. If I read everything correctly,then there would probably be some overlap on the holes.
There is a "marvelous" new idea... it is called doing it correctly.
Shop I go to thought they were going to have a problem mounting
Rossi Axials (same as your Looks) on my Explosives... but the manager
took off some rubber pieces on the "wings" to get the jig over the skis.
Looks like it worked. I would go for new....
And hey, 4800s are midfat, if they aren't setup for those, then they
will be left behind.
post #16 of 29
Thread Starter 
John J:

It was as if the manager were complaining to me about Alpine not supplying him with an adequate jig. I am going to push for new skis; I don't want the binding to loosen or fall out when I'm turning on a hardwood lined slope or steep.

By the way, Gibson's is the best steakhouse on earth! Dem's good vittles in Chicago. The Billy Goat tavern is a hoot: cheesebugger cheesebugger cheesebugguh!

thanks, Mainiac
post #17 of 29
A tiny data-point: I had a somewhat similar situation occur some years ago. A shop (generally a good shop) mounted the wrong model of bindings on brand new skis. They suggested that they would just remount the correct binding. I told them I was paying for new skis, and I expected new skis. I didn't have to make a fuss or big deal about it: they gave me new skis.
post #18 of 29
They owe you new skis, plain and simple. Don't let them talk you into a hack job. You are buying new skis after all. I've had 2 set of skis messed up due to binding mismounts (2 different shops) and in both cases, they ended up replacing the skis with new ones.
post #19 of 29
Originally Posted by Mainiac
John J:

It was as if the manager were complaining to me about Alpine not supplying him with an adequate jig. I am going to push for new skis; I don't want the binding to loosen or fall out when I'm turning on a hardwood lined slope or steep.
yeah, amazing new materials my ass.

You deserve new skis. If they remount you, they'll have to do it forward or behind center for it to be safe. Screw that. You bought new skis.

I would have said to be non-aggressive as well, but their manager already handed you one line of obvious bullshit. There are wide Look jigs. If they don't have one, shame on them. If they are too stoned/stupid to freehand the mount correctly without a wide jig, shame on them.

Mistakes happen. They pay, not you.
post #20 of 29
ok, now the guy is blowing smoke up your butt. look has a jig that fits the legand pro just by flipping the rubber pads on the feet of the jig. the ski was mismounted you get new skis thats the industry standard. they can put the ski in demo/rental. some stores make the tech buy the screwups which seems to keep the number of said screwups down.
post #21 of 29
Originally Posted by waxman
some stores make the tech buy the screwups which seems to keep the number of said screwups down.
Oh man, thats a harsh policy. I'll bet its effective though.

I really miss the old toe-mount days. Lead to some real "bwahahaha" moments when someone would mount the midsole at the toe mark.
post #22 of 29
Damn, it is only a midfat. If they haven't upgraded their jigs (if even needed) they are hopeless. If they end up resisting your right to a properly mounted new pair of skis, contact Dynastar. "Smoke up your butt" is correct.
post #23 of 29
Thread Starter 
If the industry standard for said mistake is a new set of skis; I am settling for nothing less. I imagine several sets of drill holes drop the hell out of the resale value.....and I will contact Dynastar and Alpine honchos if I have to. I really feel rotten about the whole mess. I never dreamed I'd need to hire a lawyer to go skiing!
post #24 of 29
I don't know about industry standard.
You bought new skis and new bindings?
You spent a pretty penny. Your call.
post #25 of 29
If you feel somewhat bad about demanding a new pair of skis, look at it this way, you purchased "new" goods. You did not purchase flawed or damaged goods. The shop, when they improperly mounted the skis, damaged your skis. Your purchase was not on flawed, damaged, or second products, it was a purchase of new, unused, non-flawed goods.

In terms of resale, yes they somewhat (keyword somewhat) are trying to screw you, a ski can and will 99% of the time only be drilled 3 times by a shop. Therefore, if they are already on their second drilling when they see snow for the first time, then the bindings can only be moved (requiring a drilling, not a simple close bit sole move) one more time (which can mean if you choose to change binding companies next year, that require a different pattern, the skis will not be able to be drilled beyond that).

Hopefully this makes sense as it seems I confused myself a little even though I know what I'm saying.

Basically, do not feel bad about demanding a new ski. Furthermore, do not stress about a lawyer, should not be needed at all. The shops reputation should be enough fear. People have to realize how much power they have, how much business they can either bring a shop or deny a shop.
post #26 of 29
Thread Starter 
Thanks, everybody, for the good and timely advice.

I sent the store a nice, but firm letter thanking them for their fine service in the past, and politely asked them for new skis. The manager called me and told me he had researched the problem and apparently, they had the right sized jig, but one of the rubber pads somehow made the centering off. He offered to give me new skis to replace the mismounted ones.

Best of all, I am getting B2's.

Regards, from a relieved Mainiac.
post #27 of 29
Yep....the rubber pads are reversible. Someone reversed them and forgot to change one of them back to its original position...could happen to anyone...especially stoned ski techs.
post #28 of 29
why not 4800s again?
post #29 of 29
Thread Starter 

I had purchased the 4800's from a different store, SportsLiquidators, online. The Alpine shop is local in SC and NC. I go there for boot fitting, ski waxing, etc. They have succesfully mounted a number of skis I have taken there. Since they do not carry Dynastar, they offered me the closest midfat ski they had, the Rossignol Bandit 2. I offered to pay the difference, but the manager who called me refused to accept any money. I of course thanked him profusely.
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EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Ski Gear Discussion › Look P12 Bindings Mounted Badly?