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Non-Denominational Ski Camp Question

post #1 of 21
Thread Starter 
Hello,

I have absolutely no affiliation with any particular ski school, style, methodology, philiosphy, etc. I am clean slate. I have never taken a course, a formal lesson or ski class of any kind, ever. This is not an invitation to indoctrinate. I just want to ski better. This message endorsed by Clayton. Paid for by Independent friends of Clayton.

I want to improve.

I have skiied seriously for the past two seasons at Telluride averaging about 20-25 days. By the end of last season I was picking my way down Andy's Gold and exploring tree runs but I run into serious trouble as soon as the snow starts looking chopped up or I encounter bumps on the steeps. I need to jump over rocks not scrape over them. I know enough to know that I have reached a point where some good teaching could eliminate alot of pain. I was fortunate enough to ski with a true soul skiier and he had an amazing ability to improve my skiing with 20 seconds worth of comments. Problem is he likes to ski not hgold my hand, and in places I cannot follow.

I hate bumps. They scare the crap put of me and I get tense just looking at them. I know that I have to find a comfort level with them to be able to handle the off-piste runs I want to ski. I love powder (duh) and am going to purchase some wider skis early this season to improve the experience. I have awesome boots and custom footbeds. I ski fast and love to do short turns. The groomed runs bore me pretty quick and I can ski any black groomed run in the fall line with prefect speed control. When I can ski Andy's Gold top to bottom without stopping 25 times to pick my way around obstacles I will be getting there.
There it is.

My thinking is that an intensive multi-day camp type experience is what I want and need. Since I am very focused on off-piste skiing I want a camp that at least includes this type of skiing in the curriculum.

I am looking for recommendations on ski camps in Colorado; Suited to my ability level (Aggressive intermediate?); that include some focus on off-piste skiing.

Help me.....

NOTICE I DID NOT MENTION ANY ACRONYMS.
post #2 of 21
Clayton,

I already like your sense of humor.

Find a mentor.

Join a ski school.

Teaching skiing is a tremendous way to improve your skiing for a wide variety of reasons. I was my normal ascerbic sarcastic self in the other thread and thank goodness Alaska Mike (whom I greatly respect) was a tad more mature than I. I have an excuse due to being sleep deprived at my real job!

I'd find an examiner or DCL (District Clinic Leader)......sorry for the acronym, and articulate what you want to do. Find a guy who's skiing you like. That may not automatically make him a good teacher, however, the odds are good.

Send me a p.m. and we can talk on the phone.

I admire your enthusiasm/passion
post #3 of 21
Who cares? Just ski.

I second Rusty Guy's recommendation. If you start teaching at a ski school you will find mentors and other folks who will help you improve. My latest excursion into skiing (after a 25 year hiatus) just blossomed after I started teaching.

From Kung Fu "Ah Grasshopper, the teacher will reveal himself when the student is ready." Sounds like you are ready.

I too am thinking about attending a : GASP, HH multiday school at Copper the end of November. I've heard a lot about his teaching and want to see what it is all about. Who knows, I might actually learn something or see a different way of presenting skiing to a client.
post #4 of 21
Thread Starter 
I would love to teach but not sure if it's practical right now. Nor do I think my skills are up to it yet. Maybe in another couple of seasons? I have a 3 year and a 1 year old and I started my own business not too long ago. I often work in Telluride so I can ski when I get breaks. Don't know if teaching would work right now but down the road it just might.

I think the right camp could really push my skiing ahead. I'm afraid I am developing some bad habits and want to quash them before they become too ingrained. I have something of a mentor in my old boss. He is a phenomenal skiier and I have learned alot from him, but his skiiing ability is so far beyond mine that I can't keep up with him. He also pushes the envelope pretty hard for someone in his early sixties and he has had 2 serious injuries in the last 2 seasons. Broke his shoulder badly falling off a cliff and nearly died of a related blood clot, and he blew his knee out this past season. Also recently had back surgery related to a lifetime of hard hits. Maybe he will be slow enough this year that I can keep him in sight! He skis for the sheer love of it and that is the most important thin he has taught me.

I won't tell you his name but his son is the namesake of "Buzz's Glade" at Telluride. His son passed away unfortunately at too early an age.

Clayton
post #5 of 21
Quote:
I'd find an examiner or DCL (District Clinic Leader)......sorry for the acronym, and articulate what you want to do. Find a guy who's skiing you like. That may not automatically make him a good teacher, however, the odds are good.
Was that "G"uy with a capital G, Rusty? Nice subliminal message, but if not, perhaps could be seen as a wee bit sexist.
post #6 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by nolo
Was that "G"uy with a capital G, Rusty? Nice subliminal message, but if not, perhaps could be seen as a wee bit sexist.
I agree, however, only with the "could be seen" portion.

In my heart of hearts I harbor no gender bias.

Jen Metz, RM examiner, occasional poster here, and in my opinion the best bump skier at Winter Park, has been helping me with my skiing for years. I would consider her a frien and mentor.

The reality is in my role as a consultant I've been up too many hours in the last 4 days getting ready for our season to start.
post #7 of 21
Thread Starter 
Rusty,

I tried to send you a PM but your box is full!

Clayton
post #8 of 21

Here are some camp ideas

Eric and Rob's camp
http://www.allmountainskipros.com

Jon Clendenon's camp
http://www.skidoctors.com/

HH's camps
http://www.harbskisystems.com/events.htm

My own experience with both private lessons and camps is that any camp with good competent instructors is better than spot lessons. These three camps teach the same movement patterns overlayed with their individual emphasis, but at their core their skiing philosophies are similar.

If you want to see an example of these movement patterns in an all mountain setting and how effective they are, any of the Tommy Moe appearences in Warren Miller's films should suffice.
post #9 of 21
Here's an acronym for ya - ESA.
post #10 of 21
Clayton,

At the risk raising Rusty's hackles, here are some insights.

I have participated 10 PMTS clinic/camps/privates. I was an assistant coach to Weems at the first ESA. I also was able to monitor some of the other coaches at the ESA. There are many differences in the techique and the teaching styles. PMTS is just a different approach to teaching.

I am not going to try to make any teaching or technique comparisons. But I will say that the PMTS "Student Directed Ski Instruction" works very well for most skiers. The PMTS technique is very easy to learn. I like it because it is easy to teach, particularly beginners. For advanced skiers, it usually requires some change.

Check out the Epic thread about pulling the inside heel back. To achieve this, you must be on your outside ski and you have yo lighten and tip your inside ski. This is what it is all about.

Harald Harb and Diana Rogers are very good teachers. I think you will be very satisfied if you take any of their camps.

Rick H
post #11 of 21
Clayton,

I suggest the Epic Ski Academy in Big Sky this year!!!!!

I responded to you thread in that ESA Planning forum as well.

Good luck in your quest!

Chris
post #12 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick H
Clayton,

At the risk raising Rusty's hackles, here are some insights.

I have participated 10 PMTS clinic/camps/privates. I was an assistant coach to Weems at the first ESA. I also was able to monitor some of the other coaches at the ESA. There are many differences in the techique and the teaching styles. PMTS is just a different approach to teaching.

I am not going to try to make any teaching or technique comparisons. But I will say that the PMTS "Student Directed Ski Instruction" works very well for most skiers. The PMTS technique is very easy to learn. I like it because it is easy to teach, particularly beginners. For advanced skiers, it usually requires some change.

Check out the Epic thread about pulling the inside heel back. To achieve this, you must be on your outside ski and you have yo lighten and tip your inside ski. This is what it is all about.

Harald Harb and Diana Rogers are very good teachers. I think you will be very satisfied if you take any of their camps.

Rick H
Rick,

That doesn't raise my hackles. What does raise them is when the debate is approached that "traditional ski teaching" is bad or "teaching the wedge" is bad, etc.

What you posted is a very different approach to the topic.
post #13 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clayton
I would love to teach but not sure if it's practical right now. Nor do I think my skills are up to it yet.
The mere fact that you say your skills may not be up to it would make me hire you at our ski school....move to Nederland!

Start teaching now...get a pass for your family for free.

Try my mailbox again I cleaned it out.
post #14 of 21
Clayton,

When I got back on skis after 5 years in College and 20 in the Navy I found out I loved it. I took one lesson to get back some skills. Within two months I had hired on at a ski school as a junior instructor and the rest is history.

My interview after going out on the hill with the director went like this. "You"re a strong skiier. We can teach you how to teach and hone your skills. You only have two problems, those things attached to your feet." So I got new skis and started out teaching. I went out with other instructors, kept my ears and eyes open, took their coaching to heart, and had a ball.

From your description of your skiing, you should be in a much better position than I was when I started. I understand the time thing, but look at it this way, you got two little ones that you can start out right if you start teaching now. Also, you might be able to hook Momma into it with you.
post #15 of 21
Quote:
That doesn't raise my hackles.
What are hackles, anyway, and why and how do they raise???
post #16 of 21
I guess dp is not a chicken farmer.
post #17 of 21
chickens have hackels?

T-Square,

Your comments were right on the money. When recruiting for our place I quote our own Bob Barnes who says a ski school shouldn't be seeking good skiers, they should be seeking good people.
post #18 of 21
Chicken farmer? definitely not! But I did keep a flock of sheep in my lab at Harvard.

Looked it up in the dictionary- Hackle (n): 1. one of the long narrow feathers on the neck or saddle of a bird. 2. erectile hairs along the neck and back, esp. of a dog.

Well then, I certainly do have a dog. NOW I understand!
post #19 of 21
Rusty Guy, Thanks, check any work on total quality and they always say the most important thing you do for your organization is hiring. You need to be very careful and pick dedicated, motivated, people that will complement your organization. Sometimes that means a rabble rouser who kicks the heck out of the status quo and gets you thinking about what and why you are in business. Sort a like SnowDog and others do here.
post #20 of 21

Here is a camp idea

There has been a good deal of discussion about resorts with multi-day ski programs. The resort where I work is offering a two day program in early December. It is open to skiers of all abilities.

Front Range Ski Academy

When: December 3&4
Where: Eldora Mountain Resort, Nederland Colorado
Cost: $125.00 per day which includes instruction and lift ticket
Faculty: Level III PSIA certs, District Clinic Leaders, PSIA-RM Examiners

The camp can be done as either a one day or two day camp. The majority of the faculty will be DCL's and examiners from the Rocky Mountain Division. The only instance that a non-examiner or DCL might be utilized is for a beginner group. Intermediate skiers and higher will be assigned instructors from the division ed staff. Class size will be limited to five students. Classes will be formed with two ideas in mind. The first is to market the program to students at any level from beginner to advanced. The second target group will be instructors seeking to improve their teaching/skiing abilities for the 2004/2005 season.

For information e-mail: gowithapsiapro@msn.com
post #21 of 21

Eldora two day camp

Bob Barnes will be teaching at the two day Eldora camp on 12-3 and 12-4
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