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Manmade Mogul Fields - Page 2

post #31 of 47
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by josseph
That's Yodeler run at Holiday Valley, winter of 2002-2003. Last winter, they made the moguls on the other side of the run.
Actually, it's Rumrunner at Loon. I took the pic...
post #32 of 47
Someone asked about how they make the runs at World Cup events and thought they were machine made because they are so evenly spaced.

The way most people make mogul courses is not with a machine, they ski them in. However, what they do (to get them so even) is they plant little flags or markers on the slope at a set distance from each other, each flag representing the top/middle of the mogul.. and people ski them in by turning around the flags sliding a lot and shoving snow to the flags.
post #33 of 47
MilesB: Has anyone tried making reverse bumps, where they indent the snow instead of sticking out? That would be interesting.


Of course! At my local hills all bumps are "reverse bumps" since we assume that the top of all bumps are "ground zero" and everything from there is indented. It is all relative, right?
post #34 of 47
MilesB: Has anyone tried making reverse bumps, where they indent the snow instead of sticking out? That would be interesting.

The old Mt. Shasta ski area used to get sun discs in the bowl areas each spring. They were shaped like reverse moguls. If you hit them right when they were turning to corn they were a blast because you could do banked turns on the side.
post #35 of 47
I can understand why Joseph thought the picture was that of Yoedler at H.V. It's so close it's uncanny.

Either way it's an awesome looking bump run isn't it? Makes me want to slide right into them right now.

These are your typical Eastern bumps. A scant bit of snow with ice inbetween.

Yoedler gets the best bumps when they let them build up mainly because it has such a consistant pitch all the way down.

Years ago, they used to let Champagne bump up. It was the best.

Voo Doo is the competition bump run at Steamboat for the same reason. Steep consistant degree of pitch. I've never heard of them using a machine to make them. The bump team lines up at the top and one after the other they ski down turning in the same spot till troughs and mounds are formed. Then they move over and start another line. The freestyle team at the valley does the same thing. On rare occasions when a competition is coming up and there are no good bumps, the course is mowed then machine bumps will be made.

There's no doubt in my mind that when bump runs were patrolled to keep the uniformity and restrictions were put on the length of skis allowed on the runs, that those were the finest moguls. Todays moguls although still fun are gnarly, icey and slipslided to death by inexperienced bumpers and snowboarders. Up untill a few years ago, when I patrolled I told many snowboarders and skiers to stay the hell out of the bumps unless they were going to ski them and not slide all the fresh snow of the run.

It seems like nobody cares anymore and all the people want groomed conditions.
post #36 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lars
Voo Doo is the competition bump run at Steamboat for the same reason. Steep consistant degree of pitch. I've never heard of them using a machine to make them. The bump team lines up at the top and one after the other they ski down turning in the same spot till troughs and mounds are formed. Then they move over and start another line. The freestyle team at the valley does the same thing. On rare occasions when a competition is coming up and there are no good bumps, the course is mowed then machine bumps will be made.
Lars,

The bumps on Voo Doo are definitely machine-formed as early in the season as possible. For the past few years, I can't remember them being mowed and reformed at any time during the season. I can't be certain of them not being mowed and reformed during the season, but I'm relatively sure since my son trains on them about five days a week.

Perhaps Voo Doo bumps used to be created naturally, but no longer. I don't think you could possibly get the consistency required for dual moguls competitions with naturally-formed bumps.

The bumps on the one training/competition run at nearby Howelsen Hill are naturally formed, and they're not nearly as well-formed or consistent as the Voo Doo bumps.

Cheers,
stmbtres
post #37 of 47
stmbtres, I stand corrected, Thankyou. I'll take your word for it. I got my info from a lad I was talking with after skiing the run last Spring. I was marveling about how perfectly formed they were and he proceded in telling me. Guess that goes to show that one can't always believe everything one hears, but it never occurred to me to question him.

BTW we'll be in Steamboat the afternoon of the 2nd of October for a few days. Coffee at Freshies would be great.
post #38 of 47
I've seen coaches on bump runs with shovels.

Are they forming some bumps or just tweaking them?
post #39 of 47
OK guys.... while I've never observed the bumps being made (the elves... oops I mean groomers do it at night) I do know that the resorts use a special groomer to do this. So in that respect, I guess there is a cost involved with buying special equipment. The resort I work for also purchased a groomer for the 1/2 pipe. They are even starting to put in computerized snowmaking guns in some areas that are awesome.

Windham (the northern sister of Liberty/Roundtop/Whitetail)will have more machine made bumps this year, as well as a bunch of new computerized snow guns taking their snow making capacity to 98%.

I think the original question was what we think of them?? I for one love them.....
post #40 of 47
I am really surprised that Springhill Crazie hasn't posted a pic of Goosebumps with the hay bales on it, not yet snowed in from the blowers.


(Actually, they were squared off straw bundles, but you get the idea, as machine made as you can possibly get).
post #41 of 47
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EasternSkiBum
OK guys.... while I've never observed the bumps being made (the elves... oops I mean groomers do it at night) I do know that the resorts use a special groomer to do this. So in that respect, I guess there is a cost involved with buying special equipment.
Again, the operator at Loon creates their bumps with the standard blade on the groomer. I can't speak for other areas that may use a special attachment.
post #42 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scalce
I've seen coaches on bump runs with shovels.

Are they forming some bumps or just tweaking them?
Did those courses have jumps? If so, the shovels are for creating the jumps and maintaining both the jump and the landing (landings get scraped off and become harder so they break up the packed snow on the landing or shovel more snow on it).
post #43 of 47
I have seen machine created bumps at Sunday River. In fact, last year the bumps for the annual year end "Bust 'n' Burn" mogul competition wre machine made on Tempest.
post #44 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlpineZone
Again, the operator at Loon creates their bumps with the standard blade on the groomer. I can't speak for other areas that may use a special attachment.

Cool.... then there's definitely more than one way to skin a mogul!!!! They're fun no matter how they got there. Unless of course they've been sheered off to cliff status, and are rock hard. I just described about 90% of eastern moguls hmmmm...... what's a mogul again????

I really need to start skiing again... I'm just rambling aimlessly now.
post #45 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by EasternSkiBum
Cool.... then there's definitely more than one way to skin a mogul!!!!
Well said. So from this thread it looks like, in order to create 'perfect' mogul fields you can:

- use a regular grooming machine with a skilled operator
- use a special mogul making machine
- have a bunch of people ski a line over and over
- have people ski a line pushing snow to designated spots

Then of course, there is the old fashioned way.. letting them just happen.

Pretty cool.
post #46 of 47
I guess they're OK for people who are trying to learn to ski zipperline. But other than that I prefer the naturally formed ones(just don't groom the bloody slope and they'll grow, even on intermediate terrain...it doesn't take long).

For competitions the manmade ones look better to me (I'm just a spectator for bump competitions) than machine made. By man made, I mean the process described above by Lars (bump team lines up and skis the course one by one, turning in the same spot). I've watched this process many times from the chair over Outer Limits as they built the course for an event. This is how they look when finished Outer Limits - Killington

There are actually a couple of ways to create machine made bumps. One is for a regular groomer to push the snow into alternating lines (across the hill):
|- - - - - - - |
| - - - - - - -|
|- - - - - - - |
this still requires some skier interaction, but everything is pretty much in place and even by the time skiers hit them and they just round them off. The other way is with a special machine or attachment (not sure which...I haven't seen it) which actually forms a line, these lines look very unnatural and seem and the bumps don't seem to be as well rounded (more oblong) and the line down the center is almost wide enough to straightline:
|__ __ |
| __ __|
|__ __ |
| __ __|
|__ __ |

Personally I think it's better to learn on man made bumps because they lend themselves to being skied in a variety of ways and I think it's important to first build your skillset so that you can turn anywhere on the bump. This will put you in a much better position to handle challenges when they appear on more advanced terrain. The biggest thing for learning bumps is allowing small ones to form on intermediate terrain rather that always grooming everything but a few "expert" runs. But then I've never been a big fan of grooming.
post #47 of 47
Machine made bumps no good??
Well tell that to every team that was in the 2002 Winter Olympics in Salt Lake City.
The bumps they skied were created with the use of a snow cat, as well as power with shovels. DEER Valley has done an awesome job creating machine made bumps, that the FIS has had 2-3 World Cup Competitons there , since the Olympics. Champion ( the run's name) is the longest bump course in the world according to the FIS stats
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