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Interesting service

post #1 of 22
Thread Starter 
I found an interesting site:, which sells video analysis software and provides a service for people to send their video in for analysis by sport pros.

Has anyone here tried it?
post #2 of 22

I've never tried it but I was considering something like that for our ski club. I had a post earlier this fall and got some good responses mostly on the con's of that sort of service. I'd like to know how that system works, so maybe I'll give them a call. Thanks for the alert.
post #3 of 22

V1 experience

I bought the home version of the software ($39) to play with, but don't have anything remarkable to say about it yet. I've been using a different software package (NEAT - their website is long gone) for 6 seasons. In the hands of a competent analyst who has a decent reference clip library, these tools can have a very powerful impact on your skiing. When I used this product to analyze guests (I only do this for instructors now), I had a 40% success rate in getting breakthroughs to happen right away (i.e. major noticeable improvement in technique) and 100% favorable results overall. Although I prefer to do interactive sessions with the student, the service format (i.e. where you send a tape and get a tape back) is almost as good. There are a couple of demo team members listed as analysts, but they are not currently available. Also, the prices appear to vary widely (e.g. $1-$200).

In general, I highly recommend using these kinds of tools (as opposed to plain video) to help improve your technique and knowledge of skiing. With regards to this specific service, though, the end result will be dependent on who you use for a coach versus the price you pay.
post #4 of 22
The people who developed the V1 programs are located here in Michigan. They started, I think, with a golfing program. My son-in-law, a PGA teaching pro with his own golf school near Ann Arbor, participated in their initial experiments and uses their program now. He's listed as one of their "faculty". He has found the program very helpful.

Someone from V1 was skiing last spring with the PSIA Central Division alpine administrator and exploring PSIA's possible participation in developing the slope program. I've not heard whether anything came of that get-together.
post #5 of 22
With a couple of my regulars last season, I would video them through the normal course of our lesson. Then, at home, I would put the video on my computer, and do some narrative analysis in the body of an email, and send the email with the video clips back to them. They loved it, and because it didn't take any of my time on the hill, and I did the work at home on my own time, it didn't cost them anything. I just did it for fun, but it did take my time. However, even if you did it this way as a paid service, it would be cheap, because it doesn't take long at all.
post #6 of 22
Thread Starter 

Were you using the V1sports product?
post #7 of 22
Originally Posted by nolo
Has anyone here tried it?

I think this might be the software Rob was talking about last year at ESA. If not, he was working with something real similar and thought it worked good. Maybe drop a note to him for further insight!

Looks like an interesting product!
post #8 of 22
I bought the home version as well. I bought it at the end of last season and used it a bit. Is it worth $39.00.....yes. What I really want is "Dartfish".

Nolo I know a pro at Winter Park who has used it a great deal more than I have and can probably provide a more cogent response. PM me and I'll give you her phone # or e-mail address.

I guess my initial reaction when I fiddled with it is the software and turorial are more designed for golf.
post #9 of 22
Originally Posted by Rusty Guy
I guess my initial reaction when I fiddled with it is the software and turorial are more designed for golf.
Definitely true. I use a slightly higher edition than the home edition in my golf work and it is great. That having been said my students are stationary and tools like being able to draw a box around their head to see head movement, or vertical lines to show sway or angled lines to compare plane are very useful. To be effectively used you have to be very precise with camera position.

Frequently I just set my camera on a tripod on the range for my own use and use it to give myself a lesson after the fact.

It would be interesting to hear the feedback from folks who have sent in their video for analysis.

I know of one golf lesson service in Denver where they make the lessons and feedback available on line after the in-person lesson for follow-up and review by the student.

But I also believe any video is good for the student. I often take my camera out on ski lessons and provide visual feedback right there on the hill. You don't necessarily need all the bells and whistles of video editing software.
post #10 of 22
Originally Posted by nolo

Were you using the V1sports product?

No, it wasn't. Actually, it was a demo copy of something that was just okay. Can't remember what it was. I also used simple movie making software.

In the past, I had used TheRusty's NEAT software, and I really liked it. It gave you the ability to do mirror images, draw lines, circles, arrow and angles (would automatically give the angle measurement), do side by side comparisons with reference video (Rusty had bought some of the PSIA D-Team references), and lots of other cool stuff. NEAT was really expensive when he first bought it many years ago, but I think that he mentioned to me last year, that the company still exists, even though the web site is gone. If they sold the old version that I used for <$100, it'd sell really well (I'd buy it). NEAT, like many others, was originally developed as golf analysis SW.
post #11 of 22

These people are using V1 in this ski instructor camp

The above link is to a flyer for a camp using the software in question. (5th paragraph in the movement analysis blurb)

If anyone knows these people you could ask them their experience with it since it's a feature at their instructor training camps. I would imagine that means it works for the intended ski analysis purpose.
post #12 of 22

As far as I can tell, NEAT (the never ending athletic trainer) has come to an end (never say never?). They had lowered their price to $99. You never did buy. See what happened?
post #13 of 22
Thread Starter 
Thanks, everyone, for your input on this product. I think I'll try it out.
post #14 of 22
Let us know your findings, please
post #15 of 22
Originally Posted by therusty

As far as I can tell, NEAT (the never ending athletic trainer) has come to an end (never say never?). They had lowered their price to $99. You never did buy. See what happened?
No, I didn't, because I couldn't find them.

Here's a thought Rusty. Since they are out of business, make copies of it, and pass them out to everyone here for the cost of burning a cd.
post #16 of 22

No NEAT - very messy


Eh, technically .... that would still be illegal. The software must be released to the public domain. But it's not necessary. V1 has made a free version of their software available. You can just download it. The free version does not have split screen. If you want split screen (and I recommend that you do), pay the $39. $39 is sufficiently close to the cost of making copies of NEAT that it's worth it. So far I've found the V1 version to be a tiny bit harder to work, but definitely less buggy.

I'd much rather focus on getting a public demo clip library online.
post #17 of 22
Thread Starter 
I'd much rather focus on getting a public demo clip library online.
What's a public demo clip library, therusty?
post #18 of 22

I've got a couple of CDs (and VHS tapes) of 5-15 second videos of skiers and riders doing various types of basic turns that I paid (sniff) cold hard cash for. I would have loved to have gotten those clips for free. And I need an order of magnitude more clips of outstanding skiers and riders doing all things imaginable.

I use these clips for the "split screen" comparisons with my victims (er, subjects) to show them how much of their "awful" technique is actually really quite good as well as showing them what movements I want them to make and when to make them. Part of what I do for my "computerized video analysis" service is make a tape of the analysis session. This inevitably includes making a copy of the reference clip.

Whether or not material is physically labelled with a copyright, it's a good idea to have permission to copy anything that is not your original material and have model releases from the demonstrators somewhere in the paper chain. Although I've technically got rights to copy stuff on the CDs I've got, the paper trail stinks. For the last few years I've been purchasing extra copies of tapes from the Snow Pro Jam to get "current" reference clips. I definitely don't have rights to make and sell copies of these, although some of the examiners I've talked have said it was ok for me to use their clips.

Since my services are currently only offered to other pros, this is not a big issue to me. But I'd love to be able to legally offer my service to the public. And it would be a huge benefit to the PSIA membership even if clips were only offered for personal use by members. This is a huge low cost untapped opportunity.

Wouldn't you love to be able to download clips from an online database? Imagine looking up "short radius turns, steep pitch, groomed run, examiner level skier" and having 50 choices to choose from? So, the idea for library is to have this vast collection of clips and catagorize them by turn size, snow condition, slope pitch, level of skier/rider, etc. The idea of the public part is to make use of the clips free (at least for PSIA members).

Every discussion I've ever had with PSIA powers that be on this subject has gone along the lines of "that's nice (but there are too many possible problems and not enough benefit), now go away". The Interactive Frontiers people who make V1 have successfully built a demo clip library for golfing and they are making money by selling the library as part of the expensive versions of their software.

We could do the same thing for skiing if someone wanted to go through the hassle of making it a business. We could also build a demo library through a grass roots effort (I'd be glad to host it). But I really really really would like PSIA to just bless the idea and help us make clips of examiners and demo team members available. This is the kind of thing professional organizations can do best.

If you believe in the power of this idea, contact your PSIA representative to let them know that you want this service and would help support it.

BTW - I'm working on an article for how to get started doing the "computerized video analysis" thing, along with developing more detailed information to be posted on my website. This is my next step for advancing the cause.
post #19 of 22
Thread Starter 
I'm sending you a PM, Rusty.
post #20 of 22
Now available for $29.95, $10.00 off the list price.
If the "Rob" you are refering to is Rob Sogard there are video clips of him availabe to download from V1 as well as several others.
I used the split screen to compare my skiing to Rob's. I still have some work to do.
For $29.95 I think it's a good tool.
post #21 of 22
Bill A,

As best as I can tell, the $29.95 price is the upgrade price if you already had version 1 of the software. If you know of another way to get the $29.95 price, please let us know.

There is also a free version of the software that does not have the split screen capability. The split screen version is well worth the $39, but the free version could be a good way for someone to get a feel for how this stuff works.

BTW - a draft of my article submission to Snow Pro (the PSIA-E newsletter) is on my web site
post #22 of 22
After you download and install the free version you'll be offered the split-screen version for $29.95. You have to download it from the web, it's not offered on CD. The variable slow motion is included with the upgrade. Offer expires on 10/31.

Click on download trial to get started.

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