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On a more positive Olympic note.

post #1 of 25
Thread Starter 
One of the more gratifying occurrences at this year's Olympics was the great success of Iraq’s men’s soccer team. What an omen of hope for the future to see these athletes emerge from a country where prior to their current desperate quest for freedom and democracy sport stadiums served as facilities for the beating and execution of innocent citizens by a sadistic dictator and his genetically defective sons.

The reality of life in Iraq prior to the arrival of America was an extreme contrast to Michael Moore's ridiculous portrayal of life there as joyful and carefree where children ran, giggled and froliced with the blessing of innocence still inhabiting their souls. The reality was that life there was hell, the populous lived in terror, and now with Saddam removed they're beginning to recognize a glimmer of hope for a better life.

The struggle to achieve that dream rages on, there are no guarantees that those who would seek to re-enslave the country will not be victorious, as the world as a whole is not responding to the call for help, but what a beautiful symbol of determination and perseverance this Iraqi soccer team was for their countrymen to emulate and find motivation to continue the valiant fight.
post #2 of 25

related (from sports illustrated)...

PATRAS, Greece -- Iraqi midfielder Salih Sadir scored a goal here on Wednesday night, setting off a rousing celebration among the 1,500 Iraqi soccer supporters at Pampeloponnisiako Stadium. Though Iraq -- the surprise team of the Olympics -- would lose to Morocco 2-1, it hardly mattered as the Iraqis won Group D with a 2-1 record and now face Australia in the quarterfinals on Sunday.

Afterward, Sadir had a message for U.S. president George W. Bush, who is using the Iraqi Olympic team in his latest re-election campaign advertisements.

In those spots, the flags of Iraq and Afghanistan appear as a narrator says, "At this Olympics there will be two more free nations -- and two fewer terrorist regimes."

(To see the ad, click here.)

"Iraq as a team does not want Mr. Bush to use us for the presidential campaign," Sadir told SI.com through a translator, speaking calmly and directly. "He can find another way to advertise himself."

Ahmed Manajid, who played as a midfielder on Wednesday, had an even stronger response when asked about Bush's TV advertisement. "How will he meet his god having slaughtered so many men and women?" Manajid told me. "He has committed so many crimes."

"The ad simply talks about President Bush's optimism and how democracy has triumphed over terror," said Scott Stanzel, a spokesperson for Bush's campaign. "Twenty-five million people in Iraq are free as a result of the actions of the coalition."

To a man, members of the Iraqi Olympic delegation say they are glad that former Olympic committee head Uday Hussein, who was responsible for the serial torture of Iraqi athletes and was killed four months after the U.S.-led coalition invaded Iraq in March 2003, is no longer in power.

But they also find it offensive that Bush is using Iraq for his own gain when they do not support his administration's actions. "My problems are not with the American people," says Iraqi soccer coach Adnan Hamad. "They are with what America has done in Iraq: destroy everything. The American army has killed so many people in Iraq. What is freedom when I go to the [national] stadium and there are shootings on the road?"

At a speech in Beaverton, Ore., last Friday, Bush attached himself to the Iraqi soccer team after its opening-game upset of Portugal. "The image of the Iraqi soccer team playing in this Olympics, it's fantastic, isn't it?" Bush said. "It wouldn't have been free if the United States had not acted."

Sadir, Wednesday's goal-scorer, used to be the star player for the professional soccer team in Najaf. In the city in which 20,000 fans used to fill the stadium and chant Sadir's name, U.S. and Iraqi forces have battled loyalists to rebel cleric Moktada al-Sadr for the past two weeks. Najaf lies in ruins.

"I want the violence and the war to go away from the city," says Sadir, 21. "We don't wish for the presence of Americans in our country. We want them to go away."

Manajid, 22, who nearly scored his own goal with a driven header on Wednesday, hails from the city of Fallujah. He says coalition forces killed Manajid's cousin, Omar Jabbar al-Aziz, who was fighting as an insurgent, and several of his friends. In fact, Manajid says, if he were not playing soccer he would "for sure" be fighting as part of the resistance.

"I want to defend my home. If a stranger invades America and the people resist, does that mean they are terrorists?" Manajid says. "Everyone [in Fallujah] has been labeled a terrorist. These are all lies. Fallujah people are some of the best people in Iraq."

Everyone agrees that Iraq's soccer team is one of the Olympics' most remarkable stories. If the Iraqis beat Australia on Saturday -- which is entirely possible, given their performance so far -- they would reach the semifinals. Three of the four semifinalists will earn medals, a prospect that seemed unthinkable for Iraq before this tournament.

When the Games are over, though, Coach Hamad says, they will have to return home to a place where they fear walking the streets. "The war is not secure," says Hamad, 43. "Many people hate America now. The Americans have lost many people around the world--and that is what is happening in America also."
post #3 of 25
The Invaders reality gathered from localised media sources

Quote:
The reality of life in Iraq prior to the arrival of America was an extreme contrast to Michael Moore's ridiculous portrayal of life there as joyful and carefree where children ran, giggled and froliced with the blessing of innocence still inhabiting their souls. The reality was that life there was hell, the populous lived in terror, and now with Saddam removed they're beginning to recognize a glimmer of hope for a better life.
The Invaded reality from a local:

Quote:
But they also find it offensive that Bush is using Iraq for his own gain when they do not support his administration's actions. "My problems are not with the American people," says Iraqi soccer coach Adnan Hamad. "They are with what America has done in Iraq: destroy everything. The American army has killed so many people in Iraq. What is freedom when I go to the [national] stadium and there are shootings on the road?"
The parallel universe of George W Bush is alive an well and camped on a street corner near you. No wonder terrorism continues to thrive when the invaders head in the sand approach takes precedence over pragmatic quotes from the front line.

GWB could not find his fabled WMD so now uses the Iraqi soccer team for his hollow propoganda.
post #4 of 25
Thread Starter 
Another cynical post from one of this sites most prominent card carrying members of the AMERICA IS EVIL club. Come on Fox, you might as well chime in here with your buddy Oz too.



Any nation throughout history who has risen to free themselves from tyranny has had to pay a price for that freedom. Tryrannists like Saddam and Adolf don't relinquish their bloody reigns of power through a polite invitation from the oppressed. The average Ahmed on the street in Iraq is so confused now with the barrage of anti American propaganda preached to him by those who desire to take up where Saddam left off that they can't see the forest for the trees.



That confusion causes some to fight against the very nation that is striving to set them free, and in doing so they are fighting in the interest of their own re-enslavement. They are now at a crucial flexion point in the determination if their lives going forward will be lived as free men or again under sadistic rule. I hope they see the light soon. I'd hate to see the rise of a new immoral dictator in a world already too destabilized by terrorism, and I'd hate to see the many lives our country has sacrificed in the interest of freedom turn out to have been made in vane.



OK you America haters, now is the point where you chime in and spew your nonsense about how wrong we were, and how our actions were all about oil, power and world domination. :
post #5 of 25
SD, if you were a supporter of this site, you'd know how I feel.
post #6 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowDog
Another cynical post from one of this sites most prominent card carrying members of the AMERICA IS EVIL club. Come on Fox, you might as well chime in here with your buddy Oz too.



Any nation throughout history who has risen to free themselves from tyranny has had to pay a price for that freedom. Tryrannists like Saddam and Adolf don't relinquish their bloody reigns of power through a polite invitation from the oppressed. The average Ahmed on the street in Iraq is so confused now with the barrage of anti American propaganda preached to him by those who desire to take up where Saddam left off that they can't see the forest for the trees.



That confusion causes some to fight against the very nation that is striving to set them free, and in doing so they are fighting in the interest of their own re-enslavement. They are now at a crucial flexion point in the determination if their lives going forward will be lived as free men or again under sadistic rule. I hope they see the light soon. I'd hate to see the rise of a new immoral dictator in a world already too destabilized by terrorism, and I'd hate to see the many lives our country has sacrificed in the interest of freedom turn out to have been made in vane.



OK you America haters, now is the point where you chime in and spew your nonsense about how wrong we were, and how our actions were all about oil, power and world domination. :
I'm not an America hater, and I think oil, power and world domination are good things, but the rest of that post is all wrong. The only time the Iraqis rose up to free themselves was after we got there. The problem I have with Bush is not that he didn't find WMD, but that he wasn't prepared for the possibility that that the Iraqis would not support the occupation. His own father defended his decision not to invade Iraq in 1991 on the grounds that an occupation would be to difficult. Bush was unprepared for something that a lot of people expected, and he should be fired for that.
Bush will never be able to maintain support for policies that are already serious failures. The question is who will be best able to build support at home and among allies for a long term policy to deal with islamic extremism? Bush has already failed at that, and he has to go.

BK
post #7 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowDog
Another cynical post from one of this sites most prominent card carrying members of the AMERICA IS EVIL club. Come on Fox, you might as well chime in here with your buddy Oz too.



Any nation throughout history who has risen to free themselves from tyranny has had to pay a price for that freedom. Tryrannists like Saddam and Adolf don't relinquish their bloody reigns of power through a polite invitation from the oppressed. The average Ahmed on the street in Iraq is so confused now with the barrage of anti American propaganda preached to him by those who desire to take up where Saddam left off that they can't see the forest for the trees.



That confusion causes some to fight against the very nation that is striving to set them free, and in doing so they are fighting in the interest of their own re-enslavement. They are now at a crucial flexion point in the determination if their lives going forward will be lived as free men or again under sadistic rule. I hope they see the light soon. I'd hate to see the rise of a new immoral dictator in a world already too destabilized by terrorism, and I'd hate to see the many lives our country has sacrificed in the interest of freedom turn out to have been made in vane.



OK you America haters, now is the point where you chime in and spew your nonsense about how wrong we were, and how our actions were all about oil, power and world domination. :
There are a few threads in the supporters section about Bush's motives and even one on oil started by me. If you honestly believe it is not about oil/money and power (and you have evidence to suggest otherwise) then put your money where your mouth is, become an EpicSki supporter and bring your rolleyes into the Lounge.

PS I don't hate America or Americans per say, I hate what is happening to America.
post #8 of 25

They put blinkers on racehorses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowDog
Another cynical post from one of this sites most prominent card carrying members of the AMERICA IS EVIL club. Come on Fox, you might as well chime in here with your buddy Oz too.
Typical Bush mantra. "You are either with us or against us".

Pretty sad really. Pretty sad for all of us.
post #9 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by philay
Typical Bush mantra. "You are either with us or against us".

Pretty sad really. Pretty sad for all of us.
Typical Aussie, you got it wrong!

The mantra is actually "You are either with Bush, or anti-American"
post #10 of 25
amazing these days what equates to "America haters."

and worrisome.
post #11 of 25
Does anyone remeber the Powell Doctrine? And how much Republicans loved it? As I recall, its main points about the use of military force were: have a clear goal, bring overwhelming force, and have an exit strategy. To give W the benefit of the doubt, he got 1 of those 3 right.
Extra credit question:
Who said "Ah'm a you-niter, not a divahder"?

BK
post #12 of 25

(now, now...

ol' billy had a twangish thang goin' on, too...)
post #13 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryan
ol' billy had a twangish thang goin' on, too...)
Yeah, but at least he was only an idiot about health insurance and girlfriends.
post #14 of 25
Snowdog, at what point did our invasion become a mission to free the Iraqis? While you paint a very positive picture I have not seen anything that would make me think that the Iraqis see us as anything but occupiers. What do you base your information on? If you choose to provide answers please do so in the Lounge. Thanks.
post #15 of 25
Snowdoggy, you low down varmint, sounds like you been called out by Missy Kima.
Whatcha gonna do now boy?
post #16 of 25
Thread Starter 
Kima,

I wasn't speaking on the origninal motives for the war. I have my own thoughts on that, but it goes beyond the scope of this forum. In starting this thread I was specifically speaking of one soccer team, and how I hoped it's success in the Olympics would serve as a symbol of hope in the desperate struggle it's homeland is currently engaged in.

I was not attempting to promote any political or phylosophical position on how or why this Iraqi battle for freedom from sadistic govermental brutality came to be. I was simply sharing my emotional reaction upon seeing a soccer team's amazing rise from adversity, and my hope that it might somehow serve as inspiration for the Iraqi people in their struggle in their world as it exists.

But I guess such a positive sentiment carries little meaning for the America haters. They're much too consumed with taking every possible opportunity to deliver angry jabs at the object they loathe to bother diverting their attention to offering hope for a positive outcome to a nation too long oppressed.

I'm not going to confront them here, this is not the place. But I will say that their rushing into this thread to vent their venomous hatred was no surprise, I predicted it in my second post. They've simply revealed themselves.

I'm done with this thread.
post #17 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillA
Snowdoggy, you low down varmint
GGGRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.
post #18 of 25
What's a Tryrannist??

The tyrant I had as an English teacher would never have allowed me to get away with that one!
post #19 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wear The Fox Hat
SD, if you were a supporter of this site, you'd know how I feel.

Wow, that is sure to increase the supporters.

Where do I sign?
post #20 of 25
Thread Starter 
Yea, that sounds better. Thanks Jimmy!

If I'm going to use a made up word I should at least spell it right!
post #21 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowDog
But I guess such a positive sentiment carries little meaning for the America haters. They're much too consumed with taking every possible opportunity to deliver angry jabs at the object they loathe to bother diverting their attention to offering hope for a positive outcome to a nation too long oppressed.
I commented on how well the Iraq football/soccer team were doing on the 12th August in another thread.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowDog
I'm not going to confront them here, this is not the place. But I will say that their rushing into this thread to vent their venomous hatred was no surprise, I predicted it in my second post. They've simply revealed themselves.

I'm done with this thread.
I don't see any venomous hatred here only a difference of opinion. It's a difference of opinion American and non-American people here are willing to discuss in the right place within Epicski. Just pulling positive snipbits from Iraq and pretending all is OK might work the American/British ego and conscience but it isn't reality.

Whatsup has the dog lost his fight or does he only engage in discussion with the fairer sex? Anytime you would like a real discussion I'm in the lounge .....
post #22 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by DangerousBrian

Whatsup has the dog lost his fight or does he only engage in discussion with the fairer sex? Anytime you would like a real discussion I'm in the lounge .....
Hey, I think I am being insulted.
post #23 of 25
This discussion reminds me of a time when people who spoke out against the administration were labeled commies and anti-american. I guess history does repeat.
post #24 of 25
While I think the success of the Iraqi team is a great achievement and a possiblity for the Iraqi people to finally start to see a light at the end of the tunnel, I thought it was dispicable (as did the IOC when they formally requested the ad stop running and threatened with lawsuits for copyright infringments) that Bush used the Olympics and Afganistan and Iraq's return to the games as a political jump point.

Now I am in no way a Bush supporter, but that is irrelevant, what I thought was the most important thing in these Olympic games was seeing an Afghani woman running in the track and field events. That is more powerful than the Iraqi men playing soccer (especially since they have always had a top team, they were just not allowed to participate in the Olympics).
post #25 of 25

Tinman Alert

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slowdog
I was specifically speaking of one soccer team, and how I hoped it's success in the Olympics would serve as a symbol of hope in the desperate struggle it's homeland is currently engaged in.
Tit bum fart
Somebody stole his horse and cart
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