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The trouble with eBay......

post #1 of 51
Thread Starter 
After a couple of great year's on eBay both as a Buyer & Seller, I seem to have found myself scammed!!! It appears I've fallen victom to the Phantom Stock Scam.....
Has anyone else ever been there? If so have any of you gotten any positive resolution? Is it worth asking eBay to step in or is it just a harsh lesson?

thanks & think snow,
brian
post #2 of 51
Call me stupid, but what is the "Phantom Stock Scam??
post #3 of 51
Thread Starter 
Phantom Stock: its kinda like the bait & switch. You bid on a great item, that is a too good to be true deal. After you have paid, you are informed that the product is "no longer available", "previously sold" or "was offered by mistake"
BUT.... you are more than welcome to apply your payment to a different & untimately, less desireable product. You are also allowed to apply your $$$ to a more expensive item.
post #4 of 51
Contract void, end of agreement all money comes back. It's in eBay's agreement I'm quite sure. It sounds like a large dealer and sicking eBay on them should fix it. You should also be protected if you used paypal.
post #5 of 51
Agree about Paypal, they refunded my money in about 2 weeks in a dispute I had with a seller.
post #6 of 51
Agree with others. If you kept the entire transaction through ebay and hopefully paypal, you're covered. If you did this outside of ebay, ebay will not cover you.
post #7 of 51
Thread Starter 
I did end up reporting the transaction to eBay. After the seller failed to reply to any of my emails, i felt that i really had no other choice. I am hoping eBay steps in here & settles the dispute. This particilar shop has been stringing me along for two months now. I'll keep you posted.
post #8 of 51
name the seller please. (unless you were buying something illegal---then ---nevermind!)

2 months is NOT a minor annoyance, would be nice if the rest of us knew who to avoid.

Thanks
post #9 of 51
Go after the seller. I also have done a lot of bussiness on ebay as both as buyer and seller. ebay has a lot to loss if scam artist are allow to get away with things. ebay and paypal want a clean bussiness. Let them know right away whats going on. If it was ski related gear please post the name of the seller here as well.
post #10 of 51
Thread Starter 
Thanks for all the input folks. This unfortunately was a ski item aution. As I said above, I have filed a fraud complaint with eBay. I am hopeful that they will aid situation. At this point I am not going to name the seller here. I am giving them the last benifit of the doubt (& having eBay step in). If this does not work I promise to name the seller & will have the forum help out more. I will also make the entire case (all the emails, cell phone records, fraud complaint filed with eBay, etc...) available for review. I an lucky b/c I have ALL the details in lengthly e-mails.
I love eBay...I even bought my last car (Honda Element, great ski machine) off eBay!! & hate to see things deteriorate in this case. Thanks again..any further advise, ideas, or help would be great.
post #11 of 51
did you use a credit card. if so call them. they will get to the bottom of it.
post #12 of 51
This was our customer and it should be noted that he was given a full refund over a month ago.

The skis he ordered were a pair of 2004 DynatarSkiCross 10 with a limited edition graphic. He has been offered the 2005 Dynastar SkiCross 10 at the same price. We will be losing a substantial amount of money with this offer. Last we heard from him, he was fine with this offer. We are waiting for our Dynastar order to arrive and once it does he will be contacted. I believe we also offered him a pair 04 SkiCross 9's, which I think is what he is referring to as the bait & switch. What he doesn't mention, is that if he had taken those skis, he would have received a significant amount of money back. There was no expectation on our part that he would take this offer, as the SkiCross 10 is clearly the better ski for him.

The skis he ordered shouldn't have been listed as they were not in stock. This was not done intentionally and there is no "scam" here. We have at least 600 listings up at all times, and unfortuantely these things happen on the rare occasion. We are human, and do make mistakes. However, we will always make sure the customer is compensated properly in these cases.
post #13 of 51
I was mistaken in my last post. The skis were actually from 2003. The eBay item number is 3686354824.
post #14 of 51
Thread Starter 
As for the skis they were a special model with a Speed series metal plate & GS sidecut (vs plastic plate & cross side cut) I was very interested in this listing wich was for a set of skis & matching look pivot bindings. I had bid on prevous pairs on E-bay & was rather interested in these. Doug Lewis (SB ski director, MRG vertical Challenge record holder, Olympian & World champ DH medalist) skis on these (178 &186cm models) more than any other ski Dynastar tosses at him. Even last season, he was still on this ski.
As for the listing. I was never told of the stock problem until I called & demanded an explanation. I was given a date Aug 9th over the phone from Jay Cupolo for when the subsitute skis would be avail for shipping. Since Aug. 20th, I have emailed Cupolos sevreal times asking to send money & inquiring for a stock status updates. NONE of those emails were answered. I was quite suprised by how Cupolos has handled this & at many times have offered them the beneifit of the doubt. I certainly was never offered a discount for a SC 9, nor did I ask for a refund. I knew what I was after, I want skis & bindings
post #15 of 51
Thread Starter 
My Email to Jay on July 30th
From: IRIPONSNOW@aol.com [mailto:IRIPONSNOW@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 10:21 PM
To: csports@sprint.ca
Subject: Attention Jay C. / Re: dynastars






Dear Jay:
Over the past several seasons, I have enjoyed shopping though your company & Ebay. I am however rather disappointed in our last transaction. As I have told you on the phone, I had won an auction for a pair of new Limited Edition Dynastar Skis & Look Bindings. In the past, your shipments never took longer that 3-4 days. After not receiving the items I sent 2 separate Emails to your business. Both Emails went without reply / answer. I gave your shop the benefit of the doubt & continued to wait for the products.
After two weeks I called & was given the run around about the skis needing to be mounted. I informed your employee that I had specifically requested that the skis NOT be mounted. I was then told that the skis/bindings were going out that same day.
Again I continued to wait for the shipment. As of Friday, four weeks had passed & I again phoned your store. This time I was told that the skis were not available & that they were in fact "sold out." Your employee offered me a downgrade to a Ski Cross 9. Why on earth would anyone want to go from a Limited Edition ski to Ski Cross 9 that was 2 seasons old? I was also offered a refund at this time.
Concerned about this situation, I decided that I would rather speak to you directly. This took 4 more separate phone calls & up to 20 minutes waiting on hold. I was under the impression that we were going to be able to work out a mutually acceptable compromise. I was impressed that you offered a 2005 Dynastar Ski Cross in exchange for the mishap. While I was not entirely sure this was the ski I was after, I was satisfied with our progress. It was my understanding that you were to be in contact with me once you had time to fully examine what had gone wrong with my transaction & checked your stock.
You can imagine my surprise when I checked my email tonight only to find that my purchase had in fact been totally refunded. I was apparently mistaken that we were attempting to come to an agreeable solution. I do understand that mistakes are possible, that we have had excellent dealings in the past & that I would never insist on you finding a ski that no longer exists on this continent. What I fail to understand is when exactly was your shop planning on telling me that I was not going to be shipped anything? Why was I not notified of the stock shortage? And finally, how did we seem to go from "lets work this out" to an informal PayPal refund notice.
While I feel it is quite unfortunate to have come to this point, I will be left with no other option than to report this incident to Ebay if this correspondence is not dealt with appropriately. I would again like to remind you that not only did I pay for the items shortly after the close of the auction, but that your shop even left positive feedback for me after the transaction. After 4 week of waiting, my patience is fully expired.
Brian Finch
post #16 of 51
Thread Starter 
the July 30st reply:
We are going forward with the 05 ski cross 10’s. for your protection, I didn’t want to keep your money too long. When the 10’s arrive in about 2 weeks, I will ask you to send a paypal payment, equal to the ltd edition price that you paid. I was not trying to offend you in any way, just wanting to keep everything on an even scale. Let me know if this works for you

Jay
post #17 of 51
Thread Starter 
I'm sure it is not too dificult to imagine how disappointed I now am that it is almost Sept., nothing has been shipped, this auction took place on the 4th of July, & Cupolos has avoided all my attempts to contact them in the month of August. This despite the fact that I have purchased skis, bindings, Boots from them in the past and have ALWAYS had very positive experiences.
I am only interseted in Cupolo's honoring the agreement that they themselves have designed. I remain more than willing to work with them. A simple reply via E-mail stating "hey were sorry, we're still waiting on a shipment" would have been much appreciated.
post #18 of 51
Maybe it's just me, but perhaps it's just time to move on. Leave them Negative Feedback if you must (they probably deserve it in this case), but it doesn't look like the transaction you want to have happen is ever going to happen. Based on Cupolo's 98.4% positive feedback and my own personal experience with them, they're a pretty good outfit with which to do business, but you were unlucky enough to be involved in the 1.6% of transactions that didn't go well. Cupolo's will probably be happier not having to take a big loss on the 2005 skis - it didn't sound like you were completely thrilled with that solution either.
post #19 of 51
rip, sorry you had trouble with the buy. I would be pissed as well.
I have only bought from Cupolo once, received the skis promptly,
dealt with them on the phone since i did not have paypal.
I have been to their store, as you probably know they
are general sporting goods. A general feel of harried action.
A group of folks from TGR tried to arrange a group buy through
Cupolo last season for Freeride AT bindings. I forget if the
whole thing fell apart or there was only partial fulfillment of the
order, but I get the impression that Jay Cupolo is willing to
try ordering anything, even if it isn't a regular supplier.
Combine that with the disregard for delivery dates the French(Dynastar)
can have.....
(no real point here)
post #20 of 51
I apologize that your e-mails have gone unanswered. I'm not sure what e-mail address you are sending your messages to but in the future, it would be best to use ebay.cupolos@cogeco.net. This is the e-mail address that handles all messages regarding eBay purchases.
post #21 of 51
Dear Rip Snow,
I have been reading of your experience and am surprised! First - anyone in REAL business should know what their inventory is BEFORE adding it to eBay's auction site.
Second, eBay, SHOULD be made aware of this seller's poor performance,as it is a drag on eBay's good name.
And third, If you, in all good consciousness, have given this shop every opportunity to make you a happy customer, and they have FAILED, then knock their eBay rating down a degree with a negative feedback.
Be glad the money was refunded, but from reading the emails above, I can't help but wonder if that shop was trying to get this transaction OFF ebay and you away from ebay's protections??? Sounds hokey to me for them to return your money if they really were going to give you a deal on the 05 stock.....What do you think ?
Too many businesses try to pull that bait & switch on folks and many innocents (not worldly), fall for the switch ! maybe it was an honest mistake - what were the company's other negative feedbacks for ? Maybe something in this company has changed - for the worse??? all in all, thanks for the WORD TO THE WISE - I will not shop there - this buyer will be aware.
post #22 of 51
i was sitting here a little bored, so I checked out this seller on ebay. In August alone, he had several 'ITEM NOT AVAILABLE' feedbacks....both negative and neutrals. this appears to be a current standard for this company. they pull this routinely, too routinely to be just a mistake. who is leading that business into the ground ?
post #23 of 51
Thread Starter 
Taking into account the previous positive transactions that I've had on eBay with Cupolo's, I have again requested, via the correct email address, that I be sent a new invoice & that we complete the transaction for the Dyanstar-Look skis/bindings package. As I wrote to Cupolos, I have only has positive expereinces with them & would like to remain a customer.
post #24 of 51
Is it just me, or are too many of us expecting excellent ski shop service from mail order houses? To me, to expect a new '05 ski July 4 is not reasonable. I could be wrong (and am all the time) but I don't think most second tier retail outfits even begin to receive their winter stock much before the middle of September. Cupolos could have all intention of filling that order, but may not have wanted to hold his money for 2-3 months.

I am not a wealthy person, but I believe in supporting the local retailers whenever possible, as long as they can provide me the level of expert service I expect. Maybe next time you should look to you local vendors first. They may not choose to match E-bay or mail order prices, but you should know exactly where you stand and you will have recourse if not satisfied.
post #25 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by mountain momma
Dear Rip Snow,
I have been reading of your experience and am surprised! First - anyone in REAL business should know what their inventory is BEFORE adding it to eBay's auction site.
Second, eBay, SHOULD be made aware of this seller's poor performance,as it is a drag on eBay's good name.
And third, If you, in all good consciousness, have given this shop every opportunity to make you a happy customer, and they have FAILED, then knock their eBay rating down a degree with a negative feedback.
Be glad the money was refunded, but from reading the emails above, I can't help but wonder if that shop was trying to get this transaction OFF ebay and you away from ebay's protections??? Sounds hokey to me for them to return your money if they really were going to give you a deal on the 05 stock.....What do you think ?
Too many businesses try to pull that bait & switch on folks and many innocents (not worldly), fall for the switch ! maybe it was an honest mistake - what were the company's other negative feedbacks for ? Maybe something in this company has changed - for the worse??? all in all, thanks for the WORD TO THE WISE - I will not shop there - this buyer will be aware.
They are a REAL shop. I shop there in person, and have been nothing less than completly satisfied with each and every deal.

As for the rest of your post, what proof do you have that your wild speculations have any merit? Spreading fear uncertainty and doubt is a MicroS-ft tactic. Are you a competitor?

I repeat: No shop I've ever dealt with is MORE deserving of my business than Cupolo's.
post #26 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmcadams
To me, to expect a new '05 ski July 4 is not reasonable.
Some shops get prepacks as early as Feb-March.

Ken Jones up in NH had like 50% of next years models at the end of the season.

I know a few other small shops that get next years skis in early too.
post #27 of 51
I think CUpolo's shoud be commended for trying to make you "whole."
Do you use a pencil? Is there an eraser on it? If not you mut not make any mistakes!

Sure it's not good business to list some thing and then find out you don't have it to sell. But Ebay is the "dumping ground " for all types of businesses.
That's why you hear of the great deals people have gotten there. I've never heard anyone talk of the deals they get at retail.

To offer you next years model for the same cost as leftovers is exemplary service and a great deal for you.

Retailers who sell on Ebay live and die by their feedback.
My experience has always been they will bend over backwards to make a problem right.

If you want I can brag about some of my great deals on Ebay that have occured because of an initial problem. I've had a retailer refund 100% of my payment and then say keep the product (a watch) after repairs I made out way ahead!
post #28 of 51
I think both sides of this problem are handling themselves well under the circumstances. It seems to be the lookers-on that have all the negativity.

On Irip's side, if I read it right, he (I assume you are a he) thought he bought a limited run ski-binding combo at a price he was prepared to pay. Obviously thats what he wanted. Maybe the offered replacment merchandise is not what he wants---even if we--the lookers-on think it is a good compromise.

On the shop's side, they seem to be willing to make him whole with, technically better? or at least newer merchandise for the same dollars and, as I read it, have already refunded the purchase price--in the interim.

As I read the stories, I see two things that the shop could have done better. The first is not list product that was not available for what ever reason, and the second----which seems to be the larger issue from Irip's POV, Make DAM_ sure ALL published email address's get attention on a regular basis.

I've been in retail off and on over the years and if I were the shop, I'd bend over backwards to make Irip a satisfied customer because he seems to be the kind of customer that you CAN please with a bit of effort to control this one bad experience.

Just my 2 cents!
post #29 of 51
For the benefit of Big E and others:
*************************
"As for the rest of your post, what proof do you have that your wild speculations have any merit? Spreading fear uncertainty and doubt is a MicroS-ft tactic. Are you a competitor?"

***********************************************
No, I am not a competitor.

Yes, I am a business owner and have dealt with serving the public for well over 20 years. Yes, I have retail experience. Yes, I have witnessed many unscrupulous retailers both in person and online. Yes, I have had to kiss a** to make sure a customer left happy - even though the customer caused his own problem. Yes, I have been a near victim of the bait & switch method of sales. Yes, I have taken classes on running a business. I have left employ after discovering the boss was secretly cheating the public on sales. I am not a golly-gee-do-gooder, but I am honest and have been around. I know of what I speak.

"The Customer is Always Right" - what happened to that thought ?

Yes, this company in question has made some attempts to placate this buyer. But have they given him anything that will hold water in regards to the "promised" 05 Stock? Will he be getting a bargain (something he wants) ? What about the originial issue - advertising stock that did not exist and then not contacting the buyers?
The advertised item is what the customer bid on and won at auction. That is what the customer wanted - duh !!!
Read the Negative feedbacks on this company's eBay Feedback. This case is NOT the only one in the past months. There have been several occasions of the "out of stock saga" and late contacts by the seller.
As for my "Wild Speculations", It does not take too many brain cells to cover all aspects of this problem. That company should be making amends to many people, including Rip! Just because the other eBayers were not miffed at this out of stock story does not make Rip wrong for voicing his concerns.
Stating the facts are not "wild speculation" or "spreading fear and uncertainty".
I notice this board is a "DISCUSSION" AREA. The bringing of a problem to this board, in my understanding, is a call for talk & advice about the situation. It is a shame, but it is also true that this whole story is negative. No one likes or wants to get 'BURNED" on a deal whether thru online sales or in person. I feel sorry for Rip, thus I gave MY suggestions. He wanted those particular skis & bindings and the auction gave him false hope that he could own them.
If they upset you, so be it. I am entitled to my opinon and you are entitled to yours.

Carry on.........
post #30 of 51
Thread Starter 
Wow if we could all have so much energy on the Slopes!!!

Listen I had 2 concerns about this situation. First I was concerned about the fact that I had paid a sum of $$$ for a product. Second, was that the customer service in this case was far from on par. I never expected 05 stock in July & IMHO Jay Cupolo never intended for me to be telt with in this way by his employees. I am sure that Jay has plently of employees running his bussiness (some day I'll visit). I'm also sure that he does not individually handle every ebay Auction & email. I was in NO way going to accept the treatment I receved over the summer.
Obviously, he was more than willing to work with me on this case. From the start, I requested a "mutual solution" & we seem to have worked this through. the 05 stock was his suggestion on the matter. I did email Cupolos, they provided a new invoice for the package & this time I recieved notice (from an employee) stated that stock was not in & I had the option of paying when ready. I have paid & will wait for the stuff & the snow. I also notified eBay that we are "working things out".
Hopefully this case helps both parties. I plan on continuing to shop with Cupolos & I'll bet their employees are a little more on top of things.
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