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post #121 of 145
I have read the book and the Book is being discredited before the ink is even dry. O neill up untill resently has stated that they were under fire. his own citation for a Silver Star reads "Under Fire." The Dr who says Kerry was not wounded never treated Kerry or signed Kerrys med records. Some men quoated in the book supported Kerry in his senate race. yet now they change thier story after 30 years? I smell a foul right wing rat. This is just vary ugly politics at the worse. These are the same tactics used against John Mc Cain.
Yes some Anti war protesters did treat us Vets poorly. Vary few! I was treated well by the anti war I knew. On the other hand the people that were far worse in thier treatment of viet Nam Vets were and still are those that used thier power and influance to get out of the war! Those people used time time I was in the army to advance thier careers. Let the suckers go to Viet Nam I'm going to stay here and make money. Then they would not hire a Vet. to them Vets were low lifes druggies not fit to enter thier Country Clubs. People like GW Bush. Did GW ever step foot in a Va Hospital to just say hello and thank you to a wounded vet? i did at age 17, I looked into the eyes of guys just one or two years older then me. At 19 I was Drafted. When I got out of the Army I protested the war. If this disgracful attack on Kerry keeps up it will and should backfire on Bush. Rest assured that those well hidden skeletons in the Bush closets will be aired. The only record from that era that Bush has is He was a drunk spoiled privlaged rich kid who used power and influence to get by his whole life. Daddy gets me into Yale, Daddy gets me into the National guard Daddy gets me into Harvard daddy sets me up in bussiness. Daddy and his friends bail me out when As a drunk I run the bussiness down. I get a sweet heart deal and buy into a baseball team. He really does have a great record. He never protested the war or even said much about it at all. I'm sure never gave it or those who were dying or coming home missing limbs much thought at all. After all the they and war really didn't effect his privleged life vary much. Oh poor George had to spend a few weekends away from his drinking buddies and the country club, in the National Guard. well come to think of it he didn't miss that many weekends. While others had to wait a year and a half to get into the guard he got in, in a matter of a few weeks. They held a press release on his swearing in! he was allowed to by passed Officers Candidate School. Oh the horror of haveing to serve a whole 6 weeks becuse he wanted out early,to go to Harvard. This after being a no show for more then a year! This was not in Alabama but in Texas! I know a guy from my home Town in New jersey who missed 2 months in of meeting in 1967 and he was inducted into the Marines! These people have some nerve going after Kerry
post #122 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wear The Fox Hat
What do you consider "due time"?
After we've gone in and killed more innocent civilians, or should we maybe try to get some facts straight before the next war?
Of course, should Bush get in again, the next war probably won't be until the next election, unless something major happens to the people who bankroll him, so he has to do something to distract the American public from seeing what's really going on.
Oh yeah, they're all just poor little innocents shooting at our guys with RPGs and IEDs. Why do you guys always think the US is the bad guy? Maybe it's because you don't think and just go along with the politically-correct line. You live in a dreamworld, which is only possible because Bush is protecting your sorry butts. Try "thinking" instead of "feeling."
post #123 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utah49
I have read the book and the Book is being discredited before the ink is even dry. O neill up untill resently has stated that they were under fire. his own citation for a Silver Star reads "Under Fire." The Dr who says Kerry was not wounded never treated Kerry or signed Kerrys med records. Some men quoated in the book supported Kerry in his senate race. yet now they change thier story after 30 years? I smell a foul right wing rat. This is just vary ugly politics at the worse. These are the same tactics used against John Mc Cain.
Yes some Anti war protesters did treat us Vets poorly. Vary few! I was treated well by the anti war I knew. On the other hand the people that were far worse in thier treatment of viet Nam Vets were and still are those that used thier power and influance to get out of the war! Those people used time time I was in the army to advance thier careers. Let the suckers go to Viet Nam I'm going to stay here and make money. Then they would not hire a Vet. to them Vets were low lifes druggies not fit to enter thier Country Clubs. People like GW Bush. Did GW ever step foot in a Va Hospital to just say hello and thank you to a wounded vet? i did at age 17, I looked into the eyes of guys just one or two years older then me. At 19 I was Drafted. When I got out of the Army I protested the war. If this disgracful attack on Kerry keeps up it will and should backfire on Bush. Rest assured that those well hidden skeletons in the Bush closets will be aired. The only record from that era that Bush has is He was a drunk spoiled privlaged rich kid who used power and influence to get by his whole life. Daddy gets me into Yale, Daddy gets me into the National guard Daddy gets me into Harvard daddy sets me up in bussiness. Daddy and his friends bail me out when As a drunk I run the bussiness down. I get a sweet heart deal and buy into a baseball team. He really does have a great record. He never protested the war or even said much about it at all. I'm sure never gave it or those who were dying or coming home missing limbs much thought at all. After all the they and war really didn't effect his privleged life vary much. Oh poor George had to spend a few weekends away from his drinking buddies and the country club, in the National Guard. well come to think of it he didn't miss that many weekends. While others had to wait a year and a half to get into the guard he got in, in a matter of a few weeks. They held a press release on his swearing in! he was allowed to by passed Officers Candidate School. Oh the horror of haveing to serve a whole 6 weeks becuse he wanted out early,to go to Harvard. This after being a no show for more then a year! This was not in Alabama but in Texas! I know a guy from my home Town in New jersey who missed 2 months in of meeting in 1967 and he was inducted into the Marines! These people have some nerve going after Kerry
I see you got the talking points, Kool-aide drinker.
post #124 of 145
I thought Epic was a ski forum?
post #125 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjdow
In due time, my anti-American friend, in due time.
About as "anti" the America I know as anything I've heard.

These guys used to be fond of saying things like "America, love it or leave it", which always left me wondering about their concept of America and wishing they themselves might get off to someplace more befitting their way of thinking.

Sadly for them, most of the places they might feel more comfortable (Nazi Germany comes to mind) are no longer available to them.
post #126 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjdow
Oh yeah, they're all just poor little innocents shooting at our guys with RPGs and IEDs.
And where do they get these weapons from? Or the finances to buy them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjdow
Why do you guys always think the US is the bad guy? ."
I don't know who "YOU GUYS" are, but speaking for myself, I think the US is a great place full of many nice people (and I've met a lot of great people from Epic)

I have more problems with my own Prime Minister, for his lies to us about Iraq, and to his attitude to a country that once was "Great", but is now micro-managed, and run by lawyers, not by people who do anything worthwhile. Where a criminal has more rights and privileges than the victim. Where right and wrong hardly exist. And where morals, standards, responsibility and respect for human life are secondary to celebrity and personal gain, to the detrement of all others.
post #127 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjdow
I see you got the talking points, Kool-aide drinker.
Okay jerk, you can sit around and insult those of us that didn't go to Vietnam (I fortunately missed the war by one year) but you have absolutely no right insulting someone that was there. What is your experience with Vietnam? Did you serve? Did you have close friends or family that served?
post #128 of 145
Anyone else notice the resemblance between GWB and Alfred E. Newman?
post #129 of 145
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rio
Okay jerk, you can sit around and insult those of us that didn't go to Vietnam (I fortunately missed the war by one year) but you have absolutely no right insulting someone that was there. What is your experience with Vietnam? Did you serve? Did you have close friends or family that served?
That's right fella, we don't just let anybody speak their mind in this country. You must first meet a strick qualification criteria, then what you say had better not offend anyone. Shape up buddy! :
post #130 of 145
jjdow, Go back to your littel country club drewing room pure a martini, light a cigar and try to come up with a worth while comment. I know you can do it. Whats the matter you miss your dose of Rush Limbaugh today? So you can't come up with anything? Oh yeah Rush, is another one who didn't show up 30 years ago.Along with Chaney. This little right wing attack on Kerry is going down the drain fast. It's going down faster the then Bodie Miller in the Downhill ( So clever of me to get this back to skiing.) Hold on one moment please while I pat myself on the Back for that one. Calling me a kool-aide drinker? What is that suppose to mean anyway? Come on is that all you have? I guess since Bush doesn't have any reputation worth defending you have to resort to lame name calling. I don't think my service gives me anymore rights then anyone else. But attempting to smear the name of a man who had the b*lls to show up for a vary unpopular war is beyond low.
post #131 of 145
[quote=jjdow]
Quote:
Originally Posted by skier_j

I am a Viet Nam era vet that has been known to mispell a word every now and again.

so i put the e before the i, sorry to interupt your tirade with my misplaced mispelling.

QUOTE]

Oh, so it is ok for you to slip in little hit-and-run insults, but you can't take it when someone swipes back. What do you mean by "era" vet? Shouldn't we question the value of your service like the Left has been questioning Bush's "Vietnam-era" National Guard service?

If you're so rigid about the forum headers, why don't you use spellchecker or a dictionary? I'm not the one who started this thread but the Leftist propaganda caught my eye and I'm sick of it. Man, I can't wait to gas up the H2 and hit those slopes!
Tell ya what, I was being honest, shall we compare DD214's? What does yours say? I am not about to say something I can't back up on an internationally read forum. I am not a viet nam vet, I am a viet nam era vet.I have known quite a few Viet Nam Vets, many are no longer with us.
Swipe all ya want, if all you can do is whack at my spelling I figure I'm doing OK.

You have offered nothing of value, and contradicted yourself at least a few times. If you'd like to change the subject, do so, start something in the proper forum.

I have a really positive outlook on life JJ, I have a list of folks I would rather not engage in any activity at all. That list has never exceeded 3 folks in my nearly 51 years, guess what

You be number 4!
post #132 of 145
Thread Starter 
Utah, don't you think if a politician shamlessly waves his service record around like Kerry is doing it opens that record up to scrutiny?

He's strongly offering his self proclaimed heroism as a major factor in his suitablility for the presidency. If that's what were supose to use as a major consideration in making our decision, should we not explore the legitimacy of the claim?

How do we know which story is right? None of us were there. We have two sides of a story, which should we believe? Are we to think that one of these parties is necessarily more honest than the other?
post #133 of 145
I haven't been following this thread, but for Utah 49, a Kool-Aid drinker (there is no E on Kool-Aid, BTW) is someone who blindly follows regardless of circumstances or fallout.

Remember Jim Jones and his flock of morons who drank cyanide laced Kool-Aid and laid down, kids with parents, to die? Sad.
post #134 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowDog
That's right fella, we don't just let anybody speak their mind in this country. You must first meet a strick qualification criteria, then what you say had better not offend anyone. Shape up buddy! :
I find it disgusting that people the run around yelling freedom and "God bless America" have absolutely no respect for those that went and served for our country. Like I said, you can insult me, that's fine, but I don't like someone insulting a vet when they try to explain what it was really like. Listen up, he was there.....we weren't.
post #135 of 145
Thread Starter 
Rio, a lot of people died in many wars through the history of this country fighting to maintain freedom of speech for everyone, not just those whose words seem agreeable. When we start to govern who can say what, on what subject, then the sacrifices of those who've died keeping those freedoms for us truly have been in vain
post #136 of 145
Aren't we missing the point that a president who has been in a war and personally understands what it is like to fight in a war would be better suited to make the decision to send soldiers out to die in war? It is ironic that Powell, the member of the Bush camp with war experience, was the one (relatively) against the war until Bush, I mean Cheney, pulled his little puppet strings?

To add something about skiing (which this thread lacks), I am looking around to buy some rock skis.
post #137 of 145
I'm not trying to govern who can say what. What I'm concerned about is giving people the respect they earned. Vietnam was a nasty war and anyone who served there should be allowed to speak his mind about the experience without being insulted. There is a tendency on both sides of the Bush/Kerry debate right now to treat the people who were there with contempt if they don't say what they want to hear.
post #138 of 145
SnowDog it is only resently that a few of the swift Boat vets changed thier story about Kerry and his record. Even Oniells record for his Broze Star states that they were underfire. Nobody would get a medle for going back and picking up survivors from a boat getting hit by one mine. If that were the case then 3/4 of the guys driving trucks in convoys would have a bronze star. All Navy documents support Kerry and his side of the story. Read what Ryan posted in the supporters Lounge I think The title was "Friendly Fire." It is funny in a sad way that these men can recall thier service and what they did 30 years ago. But George can't remember what he did or the men he served with. Even if Kerry's story was poofed up a bit ,he still had the guts to show up.
post #139 of 145
Thread Starter 
Sure is. Some of the worst anger and hostility I can remember. Far cry from the temporary eruption of unity that followed 9-11. This aint healthy.
post #140 of 145
Yep, a few months of this crap also does a great job of keeping people disinterested in politics and away from the polls. I love how much money is spend on ads. Money that could be put to a good purpose rather than making ad agencies rich. We as a country give our aid in the order of magnitude of tens of millions, and look at how much is spend on the election. Now imagine thatad money being used to help, say, the people of our country. It seems a waste to spend so much money on childish mudslinging.
post #141 of 145
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utah49
Even if Kerry's story was poofed up a bit ,he still had the guts to show up.
I'll never argue that. Guess I'm just old school: winners don't gloat, heros don't brag, and leaders shouldn't lie. In the present state of affairs it's sadly tough to find an apple in the bushel basket that doesn't have a worm.
post #142 of 145
Kerry served in Vietnam. Bush is a Vietnam (era) veteran. Too much has been made about this issue. Talk about another issue, they both were honorably discharged.
post #143 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowDog
I'll never argue that. Guess I'm just old school: winners don't gloat, heros don't brag, and leaders shouldn't lie. In the present state of affairs it's sadly tough to find an apple in the bushel basket that doesn't have a worm.
In this sentiment, I wholeheartedly agree. Without fail, every true winner/hero/leader I have read, seen or known is humble.
post #144 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by telerod15
Kerry served in Vietnam. Bush is a Vietnam (era) veteran. Too much has been made about this issue. Talk about another issue, they both were honorably discharged.
Telerod, this is a huge part of the issue. It is an issue of belief systems. Without dredging up all the anti war sentiment fo the 70's , let me just say a few things to augment some words written here today.

Viet nam brought out the best and the worst in us as a people. A large part was tagging those who gave their best, and in some cases, their all, as war mongers, baby killers etc.

Utah49 stated fairly well how those men who were the proper age ended up getting drafted to serve in a conflict that was quite unpopular. Came away, if alive and whole, with a feeling that the american people thought they were scum for playing a part in the system.

Any one who has been through basic training, Snow Dog can help me here I would think, knows that the essence drilled into you is to obey at all costs. That was and is the key to military might. The whole system is built on that uncompromising dedication to orders.

My sentiment is with someone who at least met that test head on. One who did what was asked, even if the popular notion at the time was the opposite. Duty is just that. When released from duty, he/she/it certainly has the option to protest that duty.

Many I knew then, discarded all of their belongings from their service to this country. Why? Precisely because they eventually disagreed with the reasons they had been there in the first place.

To say that someone discarding their medals, ribbons and citations therefore never had them is absurd on its face.

My experience was that the recipient might have a relatively minor role in getting a relatively minor ribbon bestowed on themselves.

Most true honors such as Purple hearts and Silver stars (and many many more) are awarded on merit alone and then sometimes never actually acknowledged if your superiors don't agree that they are warranted.
post #145 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillA
I thought Epic was a ski forum?
Now how did a political thread get to be 5 pages before I realized what was going on. It started out funny and semi ski-related with the politics more humorous than anything else. But now I'm on to it.

Political discussions are WELCOME at EpicSki, but -- as the rules say -- ONLY in the Supporter's Lounge since the non ski-related threads (we agreed not long ago) would create undue noise in the ski-specific forums for those wanting pure ski info. It was also decided that those who wished to use EpicSki for a broader range of topics could help support EpicSki and then get extra privileges (in the "Supporter's Lounge" forum).

There are some very active and thoughtful political discussions going on in the Supporter's Lounge right now (it's located on the bottom of the forum listing). So if you're into that sort of thing, you are welcome to join us.

But no more in the skiing-specific forums.
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